The 3 most lazy things about Elite Dangerous and how to fix them

Hi guys,

Well Elite Dangerous has been released, so they can't claim it's a Alpha, Beta, or Gamma product with "work still left to do". This is effectively what the 1.5 million pounds have bought loyal Elite Dangerous fan, weather you love it, or hate it. It's what we got.

I will be the first to say, there are many fantastic things about the game, the graphics. The sheer vastness of the universe, the detailed ships, and the ability to play with friend and family at will. It is without a doubt one of the best PC Space Sim games released ever.

But.

There's also some very very lazy game mechanics going on as well. So lets discuss these.

1. Fines

Great! You do something wrong, you get a fine. I have no problem with that, it's great. It's realistic. What isn't realistic is how the game deals with repayment of those fines. I left space dock with a 300 credit fine, went exploring, amassed 1.8 million worth of survey data only to be destroyed by a station over a 300 credit fine.

Lets face it, if your loved one was murdered by the police for a 300 credit "speeding ticket" you would be all over that government with lawyers and press. But in the Elite universe, you have a fine? You die. It's that simple.

Class 1 crime: Piracy, murder, shooting at stations
  • Suggested response: Police hail player, player has 3 seconds to retract hard points and cease attack. If player attempts to frameshift, player comes under attack until destroyed. If player escapes then a another 5000 credits are added to his bounty and bounty hunters are authorised to kill on sight.


Class 2 crime: Smuggling, trading in stolen goods, hacking cargo bays and stealing cargo.
  • Fine must be paid within 1 hour of crime.
  • If fine is not paid within 1 hour, then fine is doubled (due to player not showing up in court)
  • If fine is not paid within 3 hours fine is trippled, and the bailiffs come for you.
  • Bailifs can be local system authority ships or players, when contacted by either you have 15 seconds to pay them, plus 25% interest or you come under attack.
  • While under attack you can pay, but there's not 50% interest in top of original fine, if you pay attack must cease.
  • If you fire back 100% interest is added, and if you don't pay you die.


Class 3 crime: Accidental shield hit while in combat, speeding inside a space station, reckless docking, damage to an unshielded ship while docking.
  • Fine's of around 300 credit don't deserve lethal responses what they do deserve is an interest rate per hour.
  • If the player doesn't pay within 1 hour of fine, then 10% is added up to a maximum fine of 30,000 credits.
  • If the 30,000 credits isn't paid within 3 days then bailiff contacts are issued to players.
  • After that same rules, if you are interdicted in space then you must pay 25% over the odds once a bailiff contacts you.
  • If you attack a bailiff lethal action is authorised.

Players who take bailiff contacts are also authorised to take the value of the fine in cargo in the players hold. Bailiffs make the 25% - 100% extra fee plus a 2000 credit fixed fee.
Bailiff must return to station where contact was issued.
Bailiff are given transponder codes and tracking information for the players ship.

2. Search the random zones

It doesn't matter what job you take, be it, find the black box recorder, or hunt the pirate scum. It all boils down to the same thing. The player must fly around looking for unidentified signal sources. Then hope that the rebel transmissions, black box recorder, or trader with the "system your target is flying around in" turns up.

This has to be the laziest system ever. Worse, it makes game events incredibly predictable, and totally random.

The client should KNOW where the black box or rebel transmissions are, you should be given specific location data for this.
You should also face some kind of challenge. Such as "oh no, the authority ships have just taken the box cause you took too long" or "they are in the process of doing it so you must now kill the authority ship to get it back, or scoop the cargo first while under fire" or "if you are very fast you get away clean".

Rebel transmissions, should follow the same pattern with authority ships.

Military plans should see a great big hulking warship bearing down on you if you are not fast enough.

Contact killings can have ambushes (you thought the boss was there, prepare to die.) followed by "if you spare me, I'll tell you where the boss is."

3. Salvage

If you didn't buy it, everything you scoop is instantly "illegal smuggling"

OMG this is the laziest thing ever. Slap a SALVAGE scanner in the upgrade list, scan the wreck and officially record that you did not destroy that ship, and that you are salvaging the cargo.

Result of action an be.

Sudden communication, OMG you found my Cargo, please return it to THIS station for THIS reward. If you run off with it THEN you are stealing it.
No communication = return cargo to station, if not claimed within 10 minutes of return you get to sell it, if you are contacted you get the value of the original haulage contract.

Discovering prototype technologies, you get contacted by the owners offering the sum of the haulage contract for it's return.
Rival company contacts you, offers you 50% more
You can open it yourself with a random result. It could be "a consumer AI toaster that sings" for example or "a prototype burst laser that delivers 5% more shield damage" or "a shield rating A+ shield generator with a random class".

This is RPG 101, I'm surprised they have not thought of this kind of thing.

How about you guys. What do you thing of Elite Dangerous, what are the three laziest things for you? How would you improve them?
 
These are good suggestions, especially concerning salvage- which I find to be utterly bewildering, in regards to design decisions.
 
About point 2, you can sell 'illegal' salvage by smuggling it or just going to an outpost in any anarchy system
 
Agreed definitely with the fine thing, it's easy to graze an NPC's shield even when you're doing your best to maintain situation awareness. Gimballed cannons do their own thing sometimes.
 
All good ideas. Most of them are too elaborate to realistically see them implemented, but you're right, it's all stuff that should be there.

Especially the salvaging laws. As an explorer-type, it bugs the hell out of me that when I find a USS in the middle of nowhere, miles from any inhabited systems, the salvaged cargo is still flagged as stolen.

Salvaging should be a viable profession (in the long run, I'd love to see actual salvaging tools implemented, like the different discovery scanners etc)
 
All good ideas. Most of them are too elaborate to realistically see them implemented, but you're right, it's all stuff that should be there.

Especially the salvaging laws. As an explorer-type, it bugs the hell out of me that when I find a USS in the middle of nowhere, miles from any inhabited systems, the salvaged cargo is still flagged as stolen.

Salvaging should be a viable profession (in the long run, I'd love to see actual salvaging tools implemented, like the different discovery scanners etc)

I'm a software developer myself.

I've implimented systems much more complicated than what I've discribed. It's just a set of timers and conditions to be met.

What's more these are TRUE player generated missions. Hunt down the fugitive player, work as a system bailiff today.

In addition to this, those Wake scanners and actually being able to track down players suddenly have a great deal more meaning.

Also wouldn't it be great if a player "logs out" when you pull them out of interdiction, that you are allowed to board their ship, find them unconscious and then strip their ship bear. (when they introduce walking around player ships this is possible, and it gives it more meaning)

If you did blow them up, then hey you get fined for murder.

Remember that this is officially an online game with real time servers going on. It's near as damn it an MMO game now. The quest systems for this kind of thing have been implemented in those for years. A massive universe is all very well, but frankly, from a single player point of view. Nothing is happening now, that wasn't happening with Elite Frontier and FFE back in the 90's. In fact those job systems were more advanced. When you got an assassination contact, you knew when they'd be leaving, and could hunt them down through hyperspace. When you got navel missions you were given specific places and locations to go to.

Honestly, for all it's graphical wonder, the actual mission logic is somewhat more primitive than what was done all those years ago.
 
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some days i think they spin what i affectionately call...the wheel of stupidity....with braben throwing darts to see what new mechanic they can ....mangle
 
some days i think they spin what i affectionately call...the wheel of stupidity....with braben throwing darts to see what new mechanic they can ....mangle

That didn't really contribute anything to the discussion in hand. Would be nice if you posted something relevant to the topic :)
 
I'm a software developer myself.

I've implimented systems much more complicated than what I've discribed. It's just a set of timers and conditions to be met.

Oh, I didn't say such things weren't possible. I've done a fair bit of coding myself. I'm just saying that, looking at what Frontier have currently released, and the general tone of it... this sort of depth isn't the kind of thing I see them implementing just yet.

After all, we can't even talk to NPCs yet.
 
"3. Salvage

If you didn't buy it, everything you scoop is instantly "illegal smuggling""

Funny, I was just scanned at a station carrying scooped canisters. No fine.
 
Hi guys,

Well Elite Dangerous has been released, so they can't claim it's a Alpha, Beta, or Gamma product with "work still left to do". This is effectively what the 1.5 million pounds have bought loyal Elite Dangerous fan, weather you love it, or hate it. It's what we got.

I will be the first to say, there are many fantastic things about the game, the graphics. The sheer vastness of the universe, the detailed ships, and the ability to play with friend and family at will. It is without a doubt one of the best PC Space Sim games released ever.

But.

There's also some very very lazy game mechanics going on as well. So lets discuss these.

1. Fines

Great! You do something wrong, you get a fine. I have no problem with that, it's great. It's realistic. What isn't realistic is how the game deals with repayment of those fines. I left space dock with a 300 credit fine, went exploring, amassed 1.8 million worth of survey data only to be destroyed by a station over a 300 credit fine.

Lets face it, if your loved one was murdered by the police for a 300 credit "speeding ticket" you would be all over that government with lawyers and press. But in the Elite universe, you have a fine? You die. It's that simple.

Class 1 crime: Piracy, murder, shooting at stations
  • Suggested response: Police hail player, player has 3 seconds to retract hard points and cease attack. If player attempts to frameshift, player comes under attack until destroyed. If player escapes then a another 5000 credits are added to his bounty and bounty hunters are authorised to kill on sight.


Class 2 crime: Smuggling, trading in stolen goods, hacking cargo bays and stealing cargo.
  • Fine must be paid within 1 hour of crime.
  • If fine is not paid within 1 hour, then fine is doubled (due to player not showing up in court)
  • If fine is not paid within 3 hours fine is trippled, and the bailiffs come for you.
  • Bailifs can be local system authority ships or players, when contacted by either you have 15 seconds to pay them, plus 25% interest or you come under attack.
  • While under attack you can pay, but there's not 50% interest in top of original fine, if you pay attack must cease.
  • If you fire back 100% interest is added, and if you don't pay you die.


Class 3 crime: Accidental shield hit while in combat, speeding inside a space station, reckless docking, damage to an unshielded ship while docking.
  • Fine's of around 300 credit don't deserve lethal responses what they do deserve is an interest rate per hour.
  • If the player doesn't pay within 1 hour of fine, then 10% is added up to a maximum fine of 30,000 credits.
  • If the 30,000 credits isn't paid within 3 days then bailiff contacts are issued to players.
  • After that same rules, if you are interdicted in space then you must pay 25% over the odds once a bailiff contacts you.
  • If you attack a bailiff lethal action is authorised.

Players who take bailiff contacts are also authorised to take the value of the fine in cargo in the players hold. Bailiffs make the 25% - 100% extra fee plus a 2000 credit fixed fee.
Bailiff must return to station where contact was issued.
Bailiff are given transponder codes and tracking information for the players ship.

2. Search the random zones

It doesn't matter what job you take, be it, find the black box recorder, or hunt the pirate scum. It all boils down to the same thing. The player must fly around looking for unidentified signal sources. Then hope that the rebel transmissions, black box recorder, or trader with the "system your target is flying around in" turns up.

This has to be the laziest system ever. Worse, it makes game events incredibly predictable, and totally random.

The client should KNOW where the black box or rebel transmissions are, you should be given specific location data for this.
You should also face some kind of challenge. Such as "oh no, the authority ships have just taken the box cause you took too long" or "they are in the process of doing it so you must now kill the authority ship to get it back, or scoop the cargo first while under fire" or "if you are very fast you get away clean".

Rebel transmissions, should follow the same pattern with authority ships.

Military plans should see a great big hulking warship bearing down on you if you are not fast enough.

Contact killings can have ambushes (you thought the boss was there, prepare to die.) followed by "if you spare me, I'll tell you where the boss is."

3. Salvage

If you didn't buy it, everything you scoop is instantly "illegal smuggling"

OMG this is the laziest thing ever. Slap a SALVAGE scanner in the upgrade list, scan the wreck and officially record that you did not destroy that ship, and that you are salvaging the cargo.

Result of action an be.

Sudden communication, OMG you found my Cargo, please return it to THIS station for THIS reward. If you run off with it THEN you are stealing it.
No communication = return cargo to station, if not claimed within 10 minutes of return you get to sell it, if you are contacted you get the value of the original haulage contract.

Discovering prototype technologies, you get contacted by the owners offering the sum of the haulage contract for it's return.
Rival company contacts you, offers you 50% more
You can open it yourself with a random result. It could be "a consumer AI toaster that sings" for example or "a prototype burst laser that delivers 5% more shield damage" or "a shield rating A+ shield generator with a random class".

This is RPG 101, I'm surprised they have not thought of this kind of thing.

How about you guys. What do you thing of Elite Dangerous, what are the three laziest things for you? How would you improve them?


Love your work here OP.

The game has many more examples which could be bracketed in the thread title but like you these 3 are without a doubt my top 3 also.

It's an ocean of potential that's puddle deep at the moment and has lots of sinkholes here and there sucking the water out.
 
All good ideas, and perhaps now a decent and relatively stable game platform is in place, the devs may be able to implement them. Not lazy, just very, very busy trying to get the foundations in place.
 
Oh, I didn't say such things weren't possible. I've done a fair bit of coding myself. I'm just saying that, looking at what Frontier have currently released, and the general tone of it... this sort of depth isn't the kind of thing I see them implementing just yet.

After all, we can't even talk to NPCs yet.

I know, they rushed this game out way before it was complete. It has the most basic features possible. It feels like they did alot of "kickstarter goal tickboxing" without really adding anything interesting.

My fear is that they'll rush off to do things like planetary landings, and walking around ships before they remove the boredom factor. I mean once you get over the "wow I can walk around places" it won't be long until "you're just walking around places that look like the last 10 stations you visited".
 
What do you thing of Elite Dangerous

Wall of text that tries to excuse itself for lack of OP's attention to deatil.

1. Pay the fines. Loitering is a crime punishable by death. If you didn't learned how strict ED universe on rules - you doing it wrong. Criticize all you want but it how things are and this is intentional. Pretty bold calling it "lazy". This is not some rushhed decision obliously. Rules are for everyone, no exceptions and we all pay the consequences for breaking them. Well, uless you are NPC and can FSD in close proximity or inside of the station :D

2. Finding something particular in the USS is a tedious task. Ever heard about Hutton Orbital? Same here. Made that mistake once - never again.

3. Don't touch what does not belong to you in the first place. And if you do - be quick and smart enough to avoid cosequences. Or it's rule №1 all over again.

All in all OP doing it wrong IMHO.
 
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Agree with point 1 and 2, but i strongly disagree with point 3.


It's not lazy, it's realistic, it's an anti-theft system.

In order to prevent cargo theft, every item is given an ID, and in order to prove you're not carrying stolen cargo, you need a permit with said cargo ID, if your ship doesn't have a permit with said cargo, you're a thief, doesn't matter how you got it, you found it? It's not your job to return it, unless you return it to the police.

It also gives a meaning to smuggling, dropped cargo, stolen, etc. gives gameplay to smuggling, drop it, let smuggling be alive, you have a lot of other things to do, let us smugglers have our jobs.
 
Point 2, as it is now you get 24hours to pay. Then you become wanted.

Fines for minor things like traffic offences have 24hours before they use lethal force. This is how they deal with law breakers, its a necessary incentive.
Instant bountys are for major things, like assault.


I dont see a problem.
 
I know, they rushed this game out way before it was complete. It has the most basic features possible. It feels like they did alot of "kickstarter goal tickboxing" without really adding anything interesting.

My fear is that they'll rush off to do things like planetary landings, and walking around ships before they remove the boredom factor. I mean once you get over the "wow I can walk around places" it won't be long until "you're just walking around places that look like the last 10 stations you visited".

Humans have a tendency to move the goal posts. It's what we do (and probably why we're so miserable all the time). Even if planetary landings are implemented, and implemented well, sooner or later people will complain it's boring; you can 'only' land on planets and trade, fight etc., do the same thing you can do in space, what's the point etc. Heck, people complain about Eve Online being grinding, and I cannot think of a more layered, complex, vibrant and varied space MMO than that.
 
Im going to stick to just one thing, the smuggling. Theyve botched this so bad and it makes me very unhappy, as I had visions coming in of an exciting "Han Solo" type of gameplay, getting into and out of dangerous smugglers dens with illicit drugs and weapons, and then running them through the police and high security stations to make massive profits in black markets.

Instead there is almost no incentive to take your illicit goods to the higher security stations because they sell for just as much (little?) at unguarded outposts. Also there is nothing about Anarchy systems or pirate outposts that feels even remotely dangerous. Theyre just another station like every other station with a skull slapped on there.
 
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