Proposal Discussion The 3 Starting Roles

After finally getting my Conda and the big Plasma on it, I have reached the "end" as it were, of the Beta 1. I am still running around having tons of fun in that ship, and still am running trade ever so often for giggles. I started to think about how to improve the starting of this game. Right now the Sidewinder is woefully inadequate for trading, and is marginally ok for running combat outside of shooting its own type. It also seems like the Eagle is a ship that everyone skips, as its the same as the sidewinder, but with 1 more gun....


So I figured, why not have a choice (based on play style) when you start out as to what starting ship you get?


So I propose this. For all roles, starting CR should be increased to 3k instead of 1k.

Jack-of-all-trades Role (Could be named Explorer). Intended for those who have not chosen there path. Those who might want to explore or do some interstellar trading, or even do a little bit of bounty hunting.
Starting Ship: Sidewinder (this ship will need some modification, its Cargo needs to be increased to 8 (so half of the hauler but double that of the Eagle) and its drive should be buffed to compensate for that added wight)

Combat Role: Intended for those who want to go the way of the warrior, who want to bounty hunt, or be the hunted.
Starting Ship: Eagle, with 3 C2 pulse lasers, otherwise rest of ship stays the same, maybe a buff to its drive to compensate for the wight of the guns.

Merchant Role: Intended for those who want nothing more then to make money through trading goods and have very little interest in combat.
Starting Ship: Hauler (all stats are the same as now)



These 3 roles would better define who you want to be, and would cater better to each play style better then just the sidewinder. It also would see the rise in the use of the Eagle (possibly) as you just do not see them outside of NPC's using them. These are the 3 cheapest ships currently, and would best suite being used as starters.
 
you missed one - there are four roles in the game not three.

Trader
Bounty Hunter
Explorer
Pirate


i think someone needs a read of the DDA :rolleyes:

also, the one big problem with your suggestion is ship cost - if those you list were all the same price it would work but the hauler is twice the price of the Eagle and the sidewinder is free. if i wanted a boost in either combat, exploration or piracy i'd go for the hauler, sell it and get an eagle. i'd still have cash left over to fill the hold and add some weapons, giving me a much better start for combat than just getting the eagle and 3k
 
The Eagle is a goal of way more players than you think. Making it a starter ship is not a good idea. and the Hauler cargo hold would easily make it too easy to get the other ships if you started with it. Plus the fact that there's going to be 25 ships at release we'll run out of things to do if we all start with that kind of choice. Especially since the Sidey is a free ship. I think it's fine as it is now.
 
The only reason people are skipping the eagle and other ships right now is that trading is the only realistic way to make cash from the start (in beta), no-ones going to buy an eagle to trade. once everything is implemented and balanced out (combat, mining, trading etc) there will be a purpose for all ships from small to large as you progress along the playstyle you choose.

Example of playstyle, I hate trading, loathe it, however I did it because it was the only realistic way to get to 10 million in a short time (in beta), bought my anaconda, outfitted it with everything and went around blowing stuff up.
Got really bored cause anaconda is just plain bad for combat without smaller ships to support it. Blew it up twice in the name of science to test the insurance bug, sold it, bought a viper and I have a blast flying that thing.

Everyone starting out the same works fine (and best imo) you're free to go and do what you want, Elite is about possibilities. The current model is fine.
 
you missed one - there are four roles in the game not three.

Trader
Bounty Hunter
Explorer
Pirate


i think someone needs a read of the DDA :rolleyes:

also, the one big problem with your suggestion is ship cost - if those you list were all the same price it would work but the hauler is twice the price of the Eagle and the sidewinder is free. if i wanted a boost in either combat, exploration or piracy i'd go for the hauler, sell it and get an eagle. i'd still have cash left over to fill the hold and add some weapons, giving me a much better start for combat than just getting the eagle and 3k


Bounty Hunter and Pirate would use the same starting ship....DUH.


Plus its not like the cost of those ships would stay the same, they would need to be worth 0 (like the sidewinder is now) so you wouldn't be able to exploit it....Gees, first thing you think of is exploiting it.

The suggestion covers all the "bases" as it were, for starting out in this game. Trading/Combat/Freelancer.

Right now the Sidewinder is very lackluster for much of anything, and as such it "slows" the game down to the point where some people would just get board and leave. This suggestion would "speed" some of the process up and leave not just Combat as your only starting option in a sidewinder.


To clarify what each ship was suggested to cover, as it seems some missed the point.

Combat Role = PIRATE/BOUNTY HUNTER (Eagle, since you really do not care too much about your cargo hold and more about the guns on your ship and how many you have)
Trading Role = TRADE (Hauler, you want as much cargo hold as you can get and care very little in terms of weapons, this ship is perfect for starting out in trading)
Explorer (Freelancer would be a better term now I think about it) = All the above! (Sidewinder, best ship to suite any role, it would need its cargo hold buffed as I stated, so it would be the "in-between" ship of the other two)
 
why would a pirate want to start in the same ship as a bounty hunter and vice versa? one needs to pick up cargo to make money and the other doesn't. they are two totally different roles.

and yes, the first thing i do think of are the exploits, no point adding them if you are just going to need to change a lot of things (like ship costs) to ba9+lance the game again.

as for smuggler mentioned above, that's sort of a piracy role as you'll often have to smuggle your ill-gotten gains into the station if you are too faraway from an anarchy world.
 
So I propose this. For all roles, starting CR should be increased to 3k instead of 1k

I disagree with this - start creds should definitely not be more, I might even entertain the idea of less starting creds in fact but fuel costs could be a problem if you make a bad starting choice.


As for the ships - no way. Ideally they'd make it so the weapons and other mods to your ship cost cargo space, so then you'd choose a start sidewinder with no weapons that may let you carry 5 or 6 tonnes, or with weapons and you have what we have now. That would be your trade vs combat option.

No way should a hauler be given - trading is already easy mode, this would just make the game completely unchallenging.

Toad.
 
As a Naval scout, the sidewinter could fall under the courier role.
One ton delivery mission don't hamstring it, and later on their might be the data courier missions.
 
You're also forgetting that the sidewinder is an excellent ship. All rounder, versatile, forgiving and used the right way, can take out Cobra and Viper quite easily.

It is a platform to start any career, hone skills and build up cash, rep etc before committing to a different ship relevant to the role you choose.

I disagree strongly that we should start with more cash, ships, guns et Al... that would be counter productive to the longevity of this game.
 
There were those options for various kickstarter pledges, so no way will they give them away now.

I didn't choose it because this is Elite, you start in a sidewinder with 100c in the bank and all those choices are there for you in your future, all you have to do is earn it.
 
In Kickstarter the rewards for various pledges was:

* Kickstarter Special: Have the option to start in the founder's world with any starter ship and 4,000 CR. Note: any Kickstarter decal-carrier will be able to travel to this secret system in gameplay.

* Explorer: Have the option to start on the edge of explored space with a long range version of the Cobra Mk III and 3,000 CR (randomised system choice for multiplayer reasons

* Independent Trader: Have the option to start in the Lave system with a basic Cobra Mk III and only 100 CR.

* Pirate: Have the option to start in an anarchic Frontier system with a stolen but upgraded Cobra Mk III and only 100 CR (randomised system choice for multiplayer reasons).

* Federal Trader: Have the option to start in a Federal border system with a basic Cobra Mk III loaded with cargo worth 1,000 CR and 1,000 CR in cash (randomised system choice for multiplayer reasons).

* Imperial Bounty Hunter: Have the option to start in an Imperial Colony with an Imperial Eagle Mk II Fighter with upgraded weapons and shields and 1,000 CR (randomised start system choice for multiplayer reasons).

Iam glad iam eligible for those rewards :D But they will be "loaned" ships and weaps so if i try to sell "reward" Cobra I wont get any credits for it.
Its like the what we se whit the starter sidewinder now.

If players are not eligible for this rewards they will start out whit the basic sidewinder and work their way up to their desired role.
Although I think when we start a game it will be a random start system for all so not all start from same point.

But maybe they do it so you can decide if you want to start in an independent , Anarchy , federal or imperial random system.
 
Unless you opted for something during the KS then you will start with 100cr and a sidewinder .. That is all you need.

There are no roles, only consequences for your actions that dictate how the game reacts to you.
 
also, the one big problem with your suggestion is ship cost - if those you list were all the same price it would work but the hauler is twice the price of the Eagle and the sidewinder is free. if i wanted a boost in either combat, exploration or piracy i'd go for the hauler, sell it and get an eagle. i'd still have cash left over to fill the hold and add some weapons, giving me a much better start for combat than just getting the eagle and 3k

I'ma stop you right their. While your point is valid your numbers are not correct.

While the sidewinder is "free" it's not valueless, when it's taken out of the equation values are.

Sidewinder 32,000
Eagle 44,800
Hauler 68,000

As you can see the Eagle does not cost twice as much as the hauler.

(I having such a hard time getting the wiki crew to stop adding incorrect prices without taking their current ship's value into account)
 
I'ma stop you right their. While your point is valid your numbers are not correct.

While the sidewinder is "free" it's not valueless, when it's taken out of the equation values are.

Sidewinder 32,000
Eagle 44,800
Hauler 68,000

As you can see the Eagle does not cost twice as much as the hauler.

(I having such a hard time getting the wiki crew to stop adding incorrect prices without taking their current ship's value into account)

details, half as much again accurate enough for you, or do i need to work it out to ten decimal places to satisfy you? ;)
 
I'm curious where it's been stated that KS starter ships are loaned and can't be sold...I don't recall seeing that anywhere.

I did ask about them getting replaced if you lose them which isn't going to happen so they're only a single "bootstrap" and so they can't then be mined (eg sell it, get a replacement, sell it again)
 
I'm curious where it's been stated that KS starter ships are loaned and can't be sold...I don't recall seeing that anywhere.

I did ask about them getting replaced if you lose them which isn't going to happen so they're only a single "bootstrap" and so they can't then be mined (eg sell it, get a replacement, sell it again)

I really cant dig through all post to find it or if it was said during some q/a session whit the devs that never was posted on the forum.

but I do remember they said that there was no sell value on the free ships.
 
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