The Ai for Peeps with no money

A lot of the peeps with $10.00 or less only has the destination to head to rides, rather than an ATM. They arrive at a ride; realizing again they don't have enough, and they move on to another ride. I would hope by then, they'd look for an ATM or leave the park.


I would think this would help with managing a paid park with free rides and crowd control.
 
It's really depressing how much they pushed "Guest Brain", going so far to make a catchy buzzword for it, and this is what we got.

The "guest brain" is a joke. I haven't seen anyone use that phrase outside of an insult since launch. The fact that they never, ever, once explained what was special about guest AI should have been our first sign something was wrong.
 
From the way it was described to us in the video.. The guests have no previous knowledge of the park... So they technically have no idea If an ATM exists, let alone its location..
I think a lot of them have $10.00 in hand and just wander about like zombies hoping they come across a ride that they can afford, And want to go on....
.
I think its safe to assume that no matter what.. the 'guest brain' is something that the devs are still dev-ing.
 
From the way it was described to us in the video.. The guests have no previous knowledge of the park... So they technically have no idea If an ATM exists, let alone its location..


uhhhhhh what

guests enter the park with complete and absolute knowledge of where every single thing is, and you can even watch them change their route as you place shops and rides to head to them from the other side of the park the second you place it
 
This is actually the part of the management simulation that bothers my by FAR the most.

I have a harder challenge mode park where about half of the guests wander around with no money. They go from ride to ride complaining how they don't have enough money to pay for tickets.
Do they visit an ATM or go home? No they just keep going from ride to ride. Sometimes they reschedule their route to go to an ATM but then before they even arrive at the ATM they change their route again to visit a shop or a ride still having no money.
I have ATM placed ALL over the park by the way.

This for me is absolutely nr1 priority to fix. Guests should either head out of the park almost immediately after running out of money or they should head for the nearest ATM and continue enjoying the park. If the guests had ANY brain whatsoever they would have realized after visiting one ride with no cash on hand that there is no use going from ride to ride.

Also this is a problem with the current financial balance in the management. Take a group of 4 people for example that enter the park with $480.
They buy an entree ticket that is $20 a person. This costs the group $80. They have $400 left.
They go on my track ride that is priced at $25. This costs the group a total of $100. They have $300 left.
After this they take a ride on my water ride costing $30. This costs the group a total of $120. They have $180 left.
They decide to get a drink together at $8. This costs the group $32. They have $148 left.
They then decide to visit a flat ride costing $15. This costs the group $60. They have $88 left.
Then they visit one of my coasters priced at $20. This costs the group $80. They have $8 left.
Now they are hungry so they also buy a burger at $13. This costs the group $52. They can't afford it however.

So having visited 3 rides and consumed 1 drink item this group has completely run out of money.


That is not really a long or impressive park visit now is it? Worst of all to even get to 3 rides visited and 1 drink consumed.
If guests are so gladly willing to pay $30 a ride and $13 for a food item then maybe they should not arrive at the park with an average of $120 per person.

Either Frontier really needs to turn down what guests are willing to spend on rides/drinks/foods/etc. or they should give guests group a more reasonable amount of money to enter the park with.
Right now guests don't mind spending 1/4 of their total starting cash on 1 ride after already paying $20 to even enter the park.

It just doesn't make sense and seeing that guests run out of money REALLY quick and after that they DON'T leave the park what I end up with is a park literally filled for 50% with people that have run out of cash.


The simulation and Guest Brain really truly suck as of right now and I'm done playing this game until it get's patched.
 
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uhhhhhh what

guests enter the park with complete and absolute knowledge of where every single thing is, and you can even watch them change their route as you place shops and rides to head to them from the other side of the park the second you place it

It does seem anomalous doesn't it. That's the problem with how games handle routing. No Sim/Peep ever has to "look for" things, and neither do they ever remember or learn.
 
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This is actually the part of the management simulation that bothers my by FAR the most.

I have a harder challenge mode park where about half of the guests wander around with no money. They go from ride to ride complaining how they don't have enough money to pay for tickets.
Do they visit an ATM or go home? No they just keep going from ride to ride. Sometimes they reschedule their route to go to an ATM but then before they even arrive at the ATM they change their route again to visit a shop or a ride still having no money.
I have ATM placed ALL over the park by the way.

This for me is absolutely nr1 priority to fix. Guests should either head out of the park almost immediately after running out of money or they should head for the nearest ATM and continue enjoying the park. If the guests had ANY brain whatsoever they would have realized after visiting one ride with no cash on hand that there is no use going from ride to ride.

Also this is a problem with the current financial balance in the management. Take a group of 4 people for example that enter the park with $480.
They buy an entree ticket that is $20 a person. This costs the group $80. They have $400 left.
They go on my track ride that is priced at $25. This costs the group a total of $100. They have $300 left.
After this they take a ride on my water ride costing $30. This costs the group a total of $120. They have $180 left.
They decide to get a drink together at $8. This costs the group $32. They have $148 left.
They then decide to visit a flat ride costing $15. This costs the group $60. They have $88 left.
Then they visit one of my coasters priced at $20. This costs the group $80. They have $8 left.
Now they are hungry so they also buy a burger at $13. This costs the group $52. They can't afford it however.

So having visited 3 rides and consumed 1 drink item this group has completely run out of money.


That is not really a long or impressive park visit now is it? Worst of all to even get to 3 rides visited and 1 drink consumed.
If guests are so gladly willing to pay $30 a ride and $13 for a food item then maybe they should not arrive at the park with an average of $120 per person.

Either Frontier really needs to turn down what guests are willing to spend on rides/drinks/foods/etc. or they should give guests group a more reasonable amount of money to enter the park with.
Right now guests don't mind spending 1/4 of their total starting cash on 1 ride after already paying $20 to even enter the park.

It just doesn't make sense and seeing that guests run out of money REALLY quick and after that they DON'T leave the park what I end up with is a park literally filled for 50% with people that have run out of cash.


The simulation and Guest Brain really truly suck as of right now and I'm done playing this game until it get's patched.

This is one of the biggest issues I have. I created a challenge park with a drink stall, a food stall, a bathroom, a first aid station, an ATM, 2 flat rides, a log flume, and a roller coaster. I was already causing people to spend all of their money and my ATM was getting no business whatsoever. So, my broke park guests would just wander around without leaving and/or using the ATM. Thinking about park scaling, what is the purpose of creating a huge park? It would just take broke guests longer to figure out that they need to leave.

I can arbitrarily close the park, make everyone leave, then re-open the park, but what is the fun in that? I shouldn't have to close the park just so I can get my peeps some cash flow. If they think I should close the park to do just that, then why doesn't park opening/closing times actually matter?

It's all more frustrating than fun most of the time in Challenge mode. Frustrating, not because it's hard (it's easy), but because the management system on the whole is messed up. :-\
 
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It does seem anomalous doesn't it. That's the problem with how games handle routing. No Sim/Peep ever has to "look for" things, and neither do they ever remember or learn.

Thing is, in RCT1, 2, and 3, which Planet Coaster surprisingly ignored a lot of gameplay from, guests were intentionally stupid until they bought a park map.

It's that easy! Make them wander more aimlessly, desire things but pretend not to know where they are, etc until they have a park map in their inventory. For some reason this mechanic was ignored.

I'd rather everyone have to walk to a stall and get a map to know what they want to do, than open a park and watch a river of people automatically flood to the coolest coaster instead of...exploring.

There should be guests that prefer to wander, too, and guests who get mad if they don't have immediate access to a map, to encourage proper information booth placement and inorganic or widespread parks alike. In scecnarios where the info booth isnt immediately unlocked, you deal with guests getting lost, and must build carefully and condensed to start until you can get it. In scenarios where it doesn't exist at all, simple paths are the best and making sure everything is on a main thoroughfare is a necessity. In scenarios where you get it ASAP, place one down right away if you can afford the running costs, and build how you please, or start slow and simple. A marketing option that gives away free maps at gas stations or something to make people aware of the park and everything in it. Maybe ti could even take a month after a ride is open for the map to "update" to have it on it, and people with outdated maps are all "oh wow I didn't know this ride was here it's not on the map!" or something.

There is so so so so much they could do with something as simple as "having a park map" and instead they went the "everyone knows everything automatically" route.
 
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Very good, detailed points made.

Right now designing the Theme Park of your wildest imagination is already nearly-possible. This is why I hope they shift the majority of their focus on the management & challenge of the game ASAP as the game is still new. That will be more crucial then making sure to get more scenery/building choices in as priority.
 
I've got atms and plenty of food and drink shops and I still encounter these problems. I agree it is making the game unplayable. Guests are hungry and thirsty and just walk around becoming disappointed because they cant afford anything - they don't go to atms and they don't leave. Half my shops are not making money - hungry and thirsty people are just walking past because they want to go to rides.

In reality hungry and thirsty theme park goers don't join a two hour queue without sorting out there needs first.

I hope improvements to the guest brain will come in the April update [cry]
 
I've got atms and plenty of food and drink shops and I still encounter these problems. I agree it is making the game unplayable. Guests are hungry and thirsty and just walk around becoming disappointed because they cant afford anything - they don't go to atms and they don't leave. Half my shops are not making money - hungry and thirsty people are just walking past because they want to go to rides.

In reality hungry and thirsty theme park goers don't join a two hour queue without sorting out there needs first.

I hope improvements to the guest brain will come in the April update [cry]

Wow, what a necro. The last post in this thread was over 1 year ago :D.

But anyway, there are 2 things to keep in mind here.

#1: Only a few percent of all peeps will ever use an ATM. It's roughly about the same number who will buy a priority pass. This is obviously by design. If it was easy to get peeps to use ATMs, then you'd never have money problems. So basically, the game is about getting the money the peeps start with and ATM usage is like bonus points.

#2. The desire to leave the park is mostly a function of time, not money. Peeps don't have a physical need for money like they do food, and peeps know nothing of prices until they reach the start of the queue. Once they learn that one price, they promptly forget it. The result is that peeps don't have any idea that they can't afford anything in the park even when they're broke.

Thus, if you have a bunch of broke peeps running around the park complaining for any length of time, it's your own fault. You took their money too quickly. You have to set your prices so that peeps go broke about the same time they begin to feel like leaving. IOW, your objective is not to charge as much as possible for everything in the park, but to balance the rate of peep spending with the "time to leave" timer.
 
Wow, what a necro. The last post in this thread was over 1 year ago :D.

the thread is from December 2nd, not February 12th.

The result is that peeps don't have any idea that they can't afford anything in the park even when they're broke.
This doesn't seem like good game AI to me

Thus, if you have a bunch of broke peeps running around the park complaining for any length of time, it's your own fault. You took their money too quickly.
I don't agree with this at all. the objective is to make profits, not making marginal profits at a slow rate to match guests needs (thats bad business) thats like saying mcdonalds is making too much money so they reduced their prices (never going to happen) if your prices are too high people simply stop spending

The game is not balanced properly, from an economic stand point. I'm going to make a video soon explaining exactly why I say this, for now I can't type it all out but you can look at my workshop for proof here http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=888630734
 
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I'm going to have to agree with Bullethead on this one. Not all guests should use the ATMs. That would make the game far too easy!

The main problem is that the guests are willing to pay far too much for rides, therefore spending too much too quickly, and then doing nothing but hanging around causing lag and congestion. Who pays $20 per ride anyway? That's not realism! Most of our parks are entrance fee, free amusements, but for royal shows you pay an entrance fee (say $30-$40) and then rides are $6-$8 per ticket for the better rides. However, at the moment I don't mind the current dynamic because it creates a tier of park management... managing guest numbers and spending by keeping prices down helps keep your park rating up because guests are happier and I don't really see it as a massive bug. Maybe Frontier see it that way too?
 
I don't mind the current dynamic because it creates a tier of park management... managing guest numbers and spending by keeping prices down helps keep your park rating up because guests are happier and I don't really see it as a massive bug. Maybe Frontier see it that way too?

After thinking about it, I can agree with this. if broke guests were to instantly leave, it would make things so much easier because we wouldn't even need ATMs, and honestly I don't have this problem of having tons of broke guests unless I don't build ATMs, so to me it really isn't an issue.

I do think there are some balancing issues with the fact that we can't make nearly as much profits from paid admission, but again it serves to add to the "management" aspect. If we charge for entrance then ride setup wouldn't serve any purpose and pricing would not be nearly as demanding, so I'm fine with charging for rides.

Now I'm not sure what to think, but I've been wanting to make a video review of the games challenge aspects and this conversation has really helped give me some ideas on what I will focus on in my video. I can't wait to get it made now so hopefully this weekend I'll get on it
 
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I think guests should leave if they've visited 3 rides/stalls in a row and couldn't pay, "I ran out of money" and they're out. I think guests should use ATM's more and I'd also like to see guests bring more money as your park gets bigger and bigger.
 
I have an idea.
Probably NEVER mentioned or suggested before.

But wouldn't it be a great idea to implement something along the line of the info kiosk selling maps to customers?
Never mind, that's "extra management".
And people don't actually want extra management features....right?

[wacky]
 
wouldn't it be a great idea to implement something along the line of the info kiosk selling maps to customers?
Never mind, that's "extra management".
And people don't actually want extra management features....right?
I'm not sure selling maps constitutes as "management" its just another shop item. Would the maps make guests smarter or something? I don't think the actual map will change how the AI works, unless they made guests clueless without the map... but thats still not a major impact on management. Other people have also pointed out that many parks now have Apps for your phone so parks don't need to sell maps or waste paper.

I think guests should leave if they've visited 3 rides/stalls in a row and couldn't pay, "I ran out of money" and they're out. I think guests should use ATM's more and I'd also like to see guests bring more money as your park gets bigger and bigger.

wouldnt this only make the game even easier than it already is though? even if things are not realistic, I'm starting to realize that the way guests work now is actually somewhat of an actual challenge to making the game a bit harder (although I still find it very very easy) so I certainly dont want things to get any easier
 
"Selling maps" doesn't add management "as is"
It requires extra "game logic".
The player should be able to make area's, like foodcourst, themed area's (which guests would prefer or want to avoid etc.)
Being able to guide guests is management.
Heck, I even would like to see "billboard maps" all over the place.... to simplify it.

When I visit a themepark, I'm going to look for info about rides which I really want to ride on.
Rides I want to skip. Area's which I would like to avoid (I wouldn't visit the fairytale area, personally...)
Using your imagination and thinking "they have apps" doesn't add any gameplay features (like management) or make your park work better

FWIW IF peeps actually had Apps which would guide them (showing ride prices, ATM locations etc.), why do we even have this thread?
Or threads about GIANT congestions?
They don't have Apps. Hence this thread.





Personal annecdote: I used to bring my map home, and hung it on the wall as a souvenir. Unique? Weird?
 
I can understand keeping your map, my point was not all parks in real life still give out free maps

the thing about this game is that, its not reality, its not true to life, its a video game, and we have to understand that certain things cant happen the same as real life. I didnt say guests in the game have phones, but you can use your imagination and maybe they will get cameras like the devs showed in one of the teaser videos (search gulpee selfie)

as for guiding your guests, well Im not sure how a map would do that. Your idea of setting a designated food court is interesting though [up]
 
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