The Alliance? It's one faction. Who are they allied with? Not the Federation.

Bryanonymous

B
I'm fairly new to this game but I pledged to Hudson for fun, and it appears that the Hudson community thinks the Alliance is neutral. If they're neutral, then why am I considered hostile in their space? Ok, whatever, it's just a word... but if they are so neutral, then why are they holding onto CC loss generating systems like Gendalla and Ross 860? It's obvious those system are only held to contest Hudson's income around Sol and Vega. That doesn't seem neutral. It seems like sabotage. If the Alliance is neutral, they should not be encroaching in Federal space just to disrupt the income of factions that consider them neutral, but that's exactly what appears to be happening. And who are they allied with anyways? They have one faction. Seems Hudson and Winters are more of an 'alliance' than they are, unless by 'alliance' it merely implies allied in disrupting Federal income which would help fight the Empire. I guess these are merely the random weekly results of who knows how many people who've participated, but I refuse to travel 100+ly to fight an enemy when my own home territory is being undermined by a so called neutral faction who sits on the edge of the bubble with relatively little resistance against them. Alliance is just a word. They are about as allied as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic. This is why I think the good citizens of the Federation should really consider kicking the so called 'Alliance' out of their space by undermining system that encroach on Federation territory.
 
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Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Bryanonymous said:
I'm fairly new to this game but I pledged to Hudson for fun, and it appears that the Hudson community thinks the Alliance is neutral. If they're neutral, then why am I considered hostile in their space?
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The game doesn't know about all the diplomatic decisions between the most prominent supporter groups of each power, so considers all Powerplay powers hostile to each other unless they're part of the same superpower.

The Federation in practice considers the Alliance neutral because it's already in a constant battle with the Imperial powers and really doesn't need another well-resourced player group hitting it hard on the other side as well. If that means letting the Alliance get away with more than it otherwise might ... well, that's prioritisation.

Bryanonymous said:
And who are they allied with anyways? They have one faction.
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Only one powerplay faction. They have just under 900 minor factions, which are the things which are allied with each other to make up the Alliance.
 

Bryanonymous

B
Ian Doncaster said:
Only one powerplay faction. They have just under 900 minor factions, which are the things which are allied with each other to make up the Alliance.
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Yea, but so do all the other superpowers. They all have minor factions allied together. The word 'Alliance' in the context of superpowers implies and alliance of superpowers, which they only have one. It's absurd.
 

Drelthar

Drelthar
It's an alliance of various "minor powers"

It's more about how those minor powers feel - with the federation for instance, all the minor factions feel as though they are just a department of the federation, whereas, with the alliance, the minor powers still feel like they are who they have always been, and are in an alliance with lots of other minor factions.

So it's about how the groups involved perceive the situation.
 

Ouberos

Ouberos
Originally the "Alliance" was a group of likeminded worlds who were rebelling against the Federation and Imperial governments who ruled them.

The core Alliance worlds were resource rich and were something of a front line battleground between Federal and Imperial forces. Much like any war it was the people who lived there that bore the brunt of the war and they decided to band together to throw off both opposing sides.

The Alliance in game is the end result of this.

iirc
 

Vetinari

V
Bryanonymous said:
Alliance is just a word. They are about as allied as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic
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Hey! I'm Alliance and Im loyal and allied to my friends, and as soon as I get back from doing PowerPlay for Hudson Ill prove it, so there! :)

Seriously though, there is a historical lore explanation thats kind of bumping into something new (PP) and thats why you see what you see.

'The' Alliance was a group of systems that declared independence from Empire & Federation, a loose group of 'independent' systems with some overarching legal control and voting. Couple centuries later we have what we have now.

Its important lore wise that they exist in the 'home' worlds, the systems originally in 1984 Elite, Lave, Riedquat, Leesti, Reorte etc
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Bryanonymous said:
Yea, but so do all the other superpowers. They all have minor factions allied together. The word 'Alliance' in the context of superpowers implies and alliance of superpowers, which they only have one. It's absurd.
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The Alliance existed in game (as did the other two superpowers) before Powers were added at all, so viewing its name in the context of its Powers is the wrong way to go about it.

The Federation is a federation of systems, not a federation of the (narratively largely irrelevant) political parties represented by Hudson and Winters.

The Empire has a colonial patronage relationship with its systems, but that isn't the relationship between the Emperor and Duval, Patreus and Torval.

Yuri Grom and Li Yong Rui are the Powerplay representations of the leaders of a single minor faction ... and their powerplay territories are nowhere near that minor faction.

Antal and Delaine are influential individuals with no associated minor factions at all.

(It may well still be absurd - nothing about Powerplay's connection to the rest of the lore is well thought-out! - but not for that reason)
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
Hmmm, potential bargepole thread here...

The Alliance are a group of disaffected milkmen, postal workers, and civil servants who got tired of being stepped on by the evil overlords who were in charge.

So they told everyone else to sod off, and we are where we are. It's ridiculous I know, but you can't fight the unions in space.

Nor the unicorns for that matter, but there's your answer fish-bulb.
 

Bryanonymous

B
Ian Doncaster said:
The Alliance existed in game (as did the other two superpowers) before Powers were added at all, so viewing its name in the context of its Powers is the wrong way to go about it.

The Federation is a federation of systems, not a federation of the (narratively largely irrelevant) political parties represented by Hudson and Winters.

The Empire has a colonial patronage relationship with its systems, but that isn't the relationship between the Emperor and Duval, Patreus and Torval.

Yuri Grom and Li Yong Rui are the Powerplay representations of the leaders of a single minor faction ... and their powerplay territories are nowhere near that minor faction.

Antal and Delaine are influential individuals with no associated minor factions at all.

(It may well still be absurd - nothing about Powerplay's connection to the rest of the lore is well thought-out! - but not for that reason)
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Why did the developers only add one superpower faction to the Alliance? It's weird.
 

goemon

goemon
You are mixing some things up.
Alliance, Empire and Federation are superpowers.
Hudson, Winters, Mahon etc. are Powerplay Figures.
Basically the CEO of Sirius Corporation, Li-Yong-Rui, does some weird power game in his private time as much as Hudson does that next to his dayjob as president of the federation. Or Mahon in his executive time.
So, while Mahons private agents might think of you as an enemy, you can be allied with the Alliance.
And Hudson, as president of the federation, can happily control imperial systems.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Bryanonymous said:
Why did the developers only add one superpower faction to the Alliance? It's weird.
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When the Powers were added, the Alliance was a bit smaller than it now is and the other two superpowers were a lot larger than they are now.

Current sizes:
Alliance: 1079 systems (and they were about half that when the Powers were added)
Federation: 4604 systems (a very significant drop from when the Powers were added)
Empire: 4498 systems (a still significant drop from when the Powers were added)
Two Alliance Powers - at the time - would have been massively disproportionate to how large they were.

Frontier couldn't predict when Powerplay was set up that the Feds and Empire would collapse so much and the Alliance would be so successful ... now, five years later, there's not really room to add a second Alliance Power even if they wanted to (and it would just make the Alliance more powerful if they did, so arguably they don't need the help!)
 

Bryanonymous

B
Drelthar said:
Seems like you've (Entirely understandably!!!!) mixed up what super power means, with the powers in powerplay.

See why it's understandable? how many times can I say power in one sentence there... jeez.
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I didn't realize powerplay was added later, and these superpowers originally represented the systems of those areas who had conflicting minor factions. I still think the 'Alliance' should have been given more than one PP option, but I guess this goose is cooked.

It's ironic that an Empire has several PP leaders and an Alliance only has one. Typically, you'd think it would be the opposite.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Bryanonymous said:
Why did the developers only add one superpower faction to the Alliance? It's weird.
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The Alliance historically didn't have superpowers within them. They were just a group of independent factions who didn't want to align to the federation or empire. Strength in numbers... but no one within that number has strength of note.

Having more than just Mahon would actually be v the weird case.
 

Vetinari

V
I'm beginning to think I have it slightly confused as well

Ian. IAN! We need you for a minute please :)

I thought Hudson was a SP Fed Pres as well as PP figure, same for Mahon & Duval? If not who is the SP figure, if there is one?

And the rest were just fillers added/expanded for PP/story/fluff reasons? (I liked fluff, I have fond memories of fluff)

Its a Venn diagram?

Bryanonymous said:
It's ironic that an Empire has several PP leaders and an Alliance only has one. Typically, you'd think it would be the opposite.
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in my mind, and subject to any correction by any post below, I think of the Empire as a mediaeval feudal or Monarchical system. One person at the top and lots of powerful barons/land owners each with their own ambitions and their own power base and 'vassals' who will fight for them in mini wars.
 

Bryanonymous

B
Vetinari said:
in my mind, and subject to any correction by any post below, I think of the Empire as a mediaeval feudal or Monarchical system. One person at the top and lots of powerful barons/land owners each with their own ambitions and their own power base and 'vassals' who will fight for them in mini wars.
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Empire typically means there's one Emperor or Empress who rules over many smaller faction territories, but I guess they aren't always monarchies. Rome had many years where they were ruled by a Senate and I think they were still considered an empire because of all the territories that were ruled over by Rome, so type of government might not be the only thing that is considered. I'm not an expert though. However, an alliance would typically mean several powers who have no authority band together for whatever reason. I guess it makes sense that there is an alliance, however it seems that alliance only has one prominent leader in this game.

Perhaps this was done intentionally in this game... Empires and Federations might splinter in allegiance while alliances might remain resolute in their purpose.
 
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