The anger in the forums. Are in reality some of the most loyal people making it worse?

[Ancient Forester]

One of the recipients of Frontier Development's Loyalty pack of goodies (the streamers that got pelicases with terrariums) raised the issue that Frontier are "ignoring the angry people who only complain".

That is actually a possibility.

My question then is: Are streamers that are belittling the problems of others (while panicking over some of their friends getting the same treatment) actually helping the problem that people are angry?

Maybe the recipients of those loyalty bonuses should consider another few angles: Why are people angry? Who can do something about the reason people are angry? How can we separate those who actually have a right to be angry from the trolls?

Instead of labeling anyone who is angry (and some of those have a good right to be angry) as "counterproductive". Their attitude starts a very dangerous road (the road that has led to this disaster of a release: Echo-chambers filled with sycophants): If you ignore those who complain, there is ZERO chance you will spot a problem in time to fix it as maintenance, and you end up doing repairs.

So. Are the recipients of those loyalty packs actually doing Frontier a service by belittling the problems users are having, or are they adding fuel to the fire?

 

[Patrick_68000]

Anger in the forums ?

Not at all.

The tradition quite simply.

 

[Zinegata]

One of the recipients of Frontier Development's Loyalty pack of goodies (the streamers that got pelicases with terrariums) raised the issue that Frontier are "ignoring the angry people who only complain".

That is actually a possibility.

My question then is: Are streamers that are belittling the problems of others (while panicking over some of their friends getting the same treatment) actually helping the problem that people are angry?

Maybe the recipients of those loyalty bonuses should consider another few angles: Why are people angry? Who can do something about the reason people are angry? How can we separate those who actually have a right to be angry from the trolls?

Instead of labeling anyone who is angry (and some of those have a good right to be angry) as "counterproductive". Their attitude starts a very dangerous road (the road that has led to this disaster of a release: Echo-chambers filled with sycophants): If you ignore those who complain, there is ZERO chance you will spot a problem in time to fix it as maintenance, and you end up doing repairs.

So. Are the recipients of those loyalty packs actually doing Frontier a service by belittling the problems users are having, or are they adding fuel to the fire?

It's by design and working as intended. If the players are too busy arguing with each other, then they can't organize against the people who created the problem in the first place. It's basic divide and conquer / us against them marketing.

Problem is, when a real crisis hits it also usually means the company finds itself completely unable to deal with any real issues anymore; and instead just tries to deepen the divides.

 

[Rat Catcher]

There are posters here that are continually 'unhappy', regardless. A couple of them may even still load the game up occasionally.

The streamers should not be making light, or fun, of those who do have issues - but then, if they didn't have viewers (obviously, I don't need another to tell me what I think of something, so am not one of their customers) because their attitude to other peoples situation was unkind, they would disappear too, which would be a much healthier situation for gaming.

 

[babelfisch]

I wouldn't know, I don't watch streamers.

 

[DarthLuca]

I am more disappointed than angry (but I guess there is a little anger there, after the dev team seemed to be promising more than they delivered when Alpha finished).
Like many others (I guess) who just want Elite to be the best space simulation 'game' that it can be, I feel saddened that the Odyssey release, while a major step in the right direction, does not move the bar far enough to where I want Elite to eventually be. It feels like nearly all of my testing, comments and suggestions from the Alpha have been largely ignored. Maybe my vision of where the game should be going is different to Frontier and David Braben's, but I don't think it is that different (and hopefully all of our comments and suggestions are recorded and considered somewhere along the line).
I was thinking yesterday that I would probably offer my time 'free' to be a formal Elite tester in order to improve the 'product' in future. Especially if I knew this meant my time and input were 'valued' and made the game better. I suppose that's what the Alpha is/was but I was thinking of something more focused where a specific programmer could/would liaise with me to test very specific bugs/solutions. Fifteen minutes over a coffee with David B. where we could discuss the future (and past) of Elite would be my ultimate meeting but I guess I will have to make do with the odd 'livestream' and open letter from the 'boss'.

 

[Asp1re]

We fly dangerously, we trade dangerously, we explore dangerously, we might as well post on the forum dangerously... we are Elite Dangerous.

Yeah I know what you mean, I am an old school player but I wouldn't scream on the forum "I WANT A REFUND!!!!" and I know that the people who are upset are also right, there are a lot of issues - its a game, almost all online game launches have some kind of tribulations and I have a lot of faith in the developers... just look at how much they already created, its an amazing game overall, I love this game. I think Frontier management team could use a little constructive criticism, I feel like they rushed the developers but I still enjoy the game very much, I am having a lot of fun. The bugs will get fixed, we just need to be patient.

 

[Fishy]

It's Dangerous Discussion, not Gentlepost Discussion!

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Well, there's always one more possibility in these cases.. if frontier released builds that were in general within the range of "industry standard", there wouldn't be any inverse rationalisation to try and justify.

If you follow the wide range of critism posts, any threads that are actually doom get chased away almost instantly and don't get restarted. Every single complaint that stands always has the door open for frontier acting differently.

The forums make sense to me. I think its actually a very minor niche that thinks there's a problem.. the tiny demographic that can't bear to hear anything but "everything is awesome". The positivty cult gets clicks too.

 

[CMDR Morkar]

You have to ignore the people who spew only insults. And you have to try to actually articulate what you think is bad. Some can do better than others. Some can't do it at all.

But people who criticise gameplay or technical issues here on the forum get often chased by white knights who pop up into every thread where features are criticised and try to actively stop people criticising. They seem to take every criticism of their favourite game as badmouthing and some even seem to take it as a personal insult because it is their favourite game. That doesn't hep the discussion at all. Just don't engage in this threads then.

The reviews on steam are legitimate. It's just the opinion of frustrated customers who bought the product and it doesn't work. Which actually mirrors the concerns that were raised here on the forum in the alpha.

 

[Ancient Forester]

Yeah I know what you mean, I am an old school player but I wouldn't scream on the forum "I WANT A REFUND!!!!" and I know that the people who are upset are also right, there are a lot of issues - its a game, almost all online game launches have some kind of tribulations and I have a lot of faith in the developers... just look at how much they already created, its an amazing game overall, I love this game. I think Frontier management team could use a little constructive criticism, I feel like they rushed the developers but I still enjoy the game very much, I am having a lot of fun. The bugs will get fixed, we just need to be patient.

... I read the epic terms of service for refunds. If it's played for more than two hours, no refund. Epic counts launching frontier launcher as running the game (it sort of makes sense). I had the launcher open hoping to get in, after the release date of the DLC. For quite a bit longer than two hours. I'm not eligible for refund, and I won't waste what little energy I have on making that fight. Instead I'm directing my energy at TRYING to get what I paid for.

With the discoveries made on "that reddit thread we all know about", and some knowledge of what parts of the graphics makes the "worst" impact, I've been able to make it somewhat playable on my computer. Not good enough for stream, and I have to play solo because the framerate I'm getting would be suicidal against one of those FPS gods we've probably recruited, but I can atleast play, get killed, pay my fines to get out of jail, etc.

 

[amigacooke]

I wouldn't know, I don't watch streamers.

I watch steamers, Flying Scotsman, Fenchurch, etc.

 

[Ancient Forester]

You have to ignore the people who spew only insults. And you have to try to actually articulate what you think is bad. Some can do better than others. Some can't do it at all.

But people who criticise gameplay or technical issues here on the forum get often chased by white knights who pop up into every thread where features are criticised and try to actively stop people criticising. They seem to take every criticism of their favourite game as badmouthing and some even seem to take it as a personal insult because it is their favourite game. That doesn't hep the discussion at all. Just don't engage in this threads then.

The reviews on steam are legitimate. It's just the opinion of frustrated customers who bought the product and it doesn't work. Which actually mirrors the concerns that were raised here on the forum in the alpha.

And I think the white knights (and "pet streamers") and sycophants are actually making the forum worse. Not only because they are increasing the noise (thus giving us a poorer signal to noise treshold), but because having a white knight telling you "everything is beautiful, nothing to see here", when you're staring at a complete breakdown of functionality is fueling the fire. It works about as well as telling a screaming drunk girl to calm down. (Sorry if anybody are offended by me assuming the gender, I'm old and I haven't worked as a doorman/bouncer since autumn 2000)

 

[CMDR Fnool]

One of the recipients of Frontier Development's Loyalty pack of goodies (the streamers that got pelicases with terrariums)

Maybe the recipients of those loyalty bonuses should consider another few angles

So. Are the recipients of those loyalty packs

I'm sorry but, i can't help but laugh at how annoyed some people are at the (admitted) favouritism Fdev showed to some Youtubers. But what did they get that's so great? A glass bowl with some mud in it, an ingame station (a small ground base would have been much cooler as there's actual NPC's walking around and things to look at, whereas the large ones are dead), and a piece of plastic with a 3d image etched inside? Even if they had been given a Ferrari each though, what's it to us? Fdev give to whoever Fdev wants, and it's not up to anyone else to count their money for them.

 

[Ancient Forester]

I'm sorry but, i can't help but laugh at how annoyed some people are at the (admitted) favouritism Fdev showed to some Youtubers. But what did they get that's so great? A glass bowl with some mud in it, an ingame station (a small ground base would have been much cooler as there's actual NPC's walking around and things to look at, whereas the large ones are dead), and a piece of plastic with a 3d image etched inside? Even if they had been given a Ferrari each though, what's it to us? Fdev give to whoever Fdev wants, and it's not up to anyone else to count their money for them.

What annoys me isn't the trinkets they were given. It's that it creates even more whiteknights that fuel the current anger (whiteknights are about as efficient at making the angry users who feel they've been scammed calm down, as it is to tell someone hysterical to calm down. It has the opposite effect).

A named base has about the same value as a paintjob bought for ARX (it means something for you personally, and everybody else simply ignores it). The plants, ball, and dirt ... Nice to look at, but nothing more. Same goes for the "Holocube". Personal opinion is that the pelicase it came in was the coolest part of the gift.

But. It's not the gift that annoys me. It's what it caused in several of the recipients (I am careful to not say "all", because I haven't got the faintest idea of the list of recipients, and probably haven't seen a percent of them). It reeks a little of "here's a bribe to keep you loyal before we create a PR nightmare, please remove any complaints about our perfect and bugfree new dlc from your twitch/youtube comments and chat".

 

[askavir]

If you can't bear different opinions than your own, then discussion forums are probably not the place for you.

 

[Djerk Ard]

My question then is: Are streamers that are belittling the problems of others (while panicking over some of their friends getting the same treatment) actually helping the problem that people are angry?

I'm not seeing this. If they're getting by streaming without Krait, Cobra or Adder crashes, I appreciate that they are probably enjoying the game. I've refrained from thinking of this as a beta, like the detractors are prone to, after having licensed my copy of ED from Frontier since 2015 and having experienced the upgrades that we've had since then - this should be normal. However, six crashes in less than two hours, with one throwing me back to a planet 50LY away without the ship I'd just stepped out of, is a slightly more frustrating experience than I've had before, and I suspect this is similar for a lot of people.

This frustration that I felt wouldn't be curtailed or exacerbated by any outside commentator. Favouritism from FDev doesn't bother me in the slightest. Belittling people's problems and issues simply suggest a lack of empathy on their part - contrasting Braben's post here with what you've described, I'm just glad I've not seen any of these broadcasters.

 

[CMDR Morkar]

What annoys me isn't the trinkets they were given. It's that it creates even more whiteknights that fuel the current anger (whiteknights are about as efficient at making the angry users who feel they've been scammed calm down, as it is to tell someone hysterical to calm down. It has the opposite effect).

A named base has about the same value as a paintjob bought for ARX (it means something for you personally, and everybody else simply ignores it). The plants, ball, and dirt ... Nice to look at, but nothing more. Same goes for the "Holocube". Personal opinion is that the pelicase it came in was the coolest part of the gift.

But. It's not the gift that annoys me. It's what it caused in several of the recipients (I am careful to not say "all", because I haven't got the faintest idea of the list of recipients, and probably haven't seen a percent of them). It reeks a little of "here's a bribe to keep you loyal before we create a PR nightmare, please remove any complaints about our perfect and bugfree new dlc from your twitch/youtube comments and chat".

I don't have anything against these yt/streamers and it's nice for them that they got something special out of it. They spent some time on it after all. But on the other hand it means I can't take their opinion at face value when it comes to how good the game is. At this point they became marketing influencers and should be looked at in that way.

 

[CMDR Fnool]

It reeks a little of "here's a bribe to keep you loyal before we create a PR nightmare, please remove any complaints about our perfect and bugfree new dlc from your twitch/youtube comments and chat".

Yeah i can't really deny that, sort of trying to get people to feel obligated i suppose. Perhaps the gifts would have been more appropriate after the release.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I couldn't care less what some Youtuber gets from Frontier.

All I want is a working product.