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General / Off-Topic The art of lies
- Thread starter verminstar
- Start date
I get:
404
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Your best bet it to try and teach Critical Thinking. Ideally that would be the filter to process all the news? Input? Whatever? And then judge it on it’s own merits.
Philosophy can help with the other problem of your (and I mean this in the fondest way) nefarious activities. For you, clearly, it’s a pragmatic choice and whatever risks vs benefits you’ve done favour what you do.
It’s trite to say, but if you’re happy doing it, then do it. If not, then stop.
Lie all you want but your real problems will start if you lie to yourself.
Philosophy can help with the other problem of your (and I mean this in the fondest way) nefarious activities. For you, clearly, it’s a pragmatic choice and whatever risks vs benefits you’ve done favour what you do.
It’s trite to say, but if you’re happy doing it, then do it. If not, then stop.
Lie all you want but your real problems will start if you lie to yourself.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Strange, I just had it open and I can still open the page from history, but not the link.
It's Harry Frankfurt's On (bovine excrement) essay.
You can google it if interested, and maybe you can open it that way.
It's also a book.
https://www.amazon.com/Bull-Harry-G-Frankfurt/dp/0691122946
The lying that politicians do is reprehensible if they are using lying as a tool for personal gain. If they really believe that what they say is for the best interest of the many and if they believe they are telling what they believe is the truth, then no matter how deluded in reality they may be, they are "innocent." What we believe is "right" is completely dependent on our upbringing, education, and genetic makeup. It's the internal motivation that matters.
At any rate, whatever I say is probably gobbledygook anyway. I shouldn't judge either.
o7
The lying that politicians do is reprehensible if they are using lying as a tool for personal gain. If they really believe that what they say is for the best interest of the many and if they believe they are telling what they believe is the truth, then no matter how deluded in reality they may be, they are "innocent." What we believe is "right" is completely dependent on our upbringing, education, and genetic makeup. It's the internal motivation that matters.
At any rate, whatever I say is probably gobbledygook anyway. I shouldn't judge either.
o7
If they think its the truth and you know full well its not, it should be absolutely OK to say so forcefully and repeatedly.
Avoiding fact checking people in case you cause offence just dumbs down society as a whole, and I believe is one of the major reasons we are currently progressing backwards.
verminstar
Banned
I had a big reply wrote out, then decided against it. Some truths are just too brutal and cant be backed up by written facts at all...cue the punishment beating of a 19yr old. Now its well documented that his family claimed he was whiter than white and as innocent as a spring lamb...what the papers dont say is what the lad did to deserve the beating.
That wasnt documented at all and therefore cannot be proven because the source operates outside the law and when yer outside the law, ye soon learn that the so called free press really aint that honest or open to facts that contradict the tone of what rubbish they pump out on the evening news.
Long story short, me and my daughter disagree on this because I support some aspects of vigilante justice while she does not. I see how it does work, she sees the headlines afterwards because I wont...cant tell her what really happened or the circumstances that led upto the incident.
Im not a member of any organization, but many of my friends and family are. This is causing friction with my daughter who represents the new younger generation while she accuses me of being stuck in the past because I dont turn my back on them. I cant explain to her why thats really not as easy as it sounds...I havent survived all this time by being a nobody without friends with a certain influence.
Ye know what this place is like stig...its really not very straightforward at all and the politics are a bucket of worms at the best of times. My daughter wants me to emigrate...I afraid to leave because I dont know any other way to live and I cant turn my back on friends Ive known since I was a kid.
Complicated issue...not easy to explain fer obvious reasons...perhaps mods should just close this cos it wont go anywhere good and tbh I just cant explain this in words the mods wont find offensive. Maybe I am lying to myself, maybe I am stuck in the past...I know she is right and Im wrong...but I cant change...I admit the thought of such a profound change terrifies me ^
I think I understand and sympathise. I’m from Glasgow and a mixed marriage. (That is protestant and catholic not black and white (ish) ) The whole sectarian thing gave me the boak and I ended up emigrating
to England in my 30’s. So I don’t have any contact with my family nor childhood friends. It can be hard.I was like your daughter when I was younger. Right is right and truth is truth, no compromise (or is that surrender?). Although I don’t advocate private justice. I can’t help feeling some deserve it as I am older.
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The lying that politicians do is reprehensible if they are using lying as a tool for personal gain. If they really believe that what they say is for the best interest of the many and if they believe they are telling what they believe is the truth, then no matter how deluded in reality they may be, they are "innocent." What we believe is "right" is completely dependent on our upbringing, education, and genetic makeup. It's the internal motivation that matters.
At any rate, whatever I say is probably gobbledygook anyway. I shouldn't judge either.
o7
I am loath to get started so I won't. I am probably to cynical in my old age. [yesnod]
verminstar
Banned
I think I understand and sympathise. I’m from Glasgow and a mixed marriage. (That is protestant and catholic not black and white (ish) ) The whole sectarian thing gave me the boak and I ended up emigrating
I was like your daughter when I was younger. Right is right and truth is truth, no compromise (or is that surrender?). Although I don’t advocate private justice. I can’t help feeling some deserve it as I am older.
Thats why its hard to justify to those who arent used to living like that in that environment...to us, we could be talking about the weather. Its a matter of fact to people living here...just another part of every single day because its so deeply embedded into our culture.
The reason those ads are on the tv is because the police cant do anything about it because it has too much support on the ground. The ads are shocking on the tv because they are an attempt to get people to stop supporting them. How successful that will be is a matter of some debate here and a non issue as far as the rest of the world is concerned. People geting together to sort out their problems isnt shocking enough to make the headlines so they only give airtime to the sorta material that just makes things worse, as one side or the other then sees this as provocation.
I dont like a lotta things they do and dont agree with it, but I do like living without fear of anti social crime or having my home broken into while Im in it, or maybe I like having a good playground fer the kids that isnt littered with used needles. Look at inner city estates in England and Scotland...can they say the same?
When the police are no longer effective, people will seek alternatives otherwise we live like animals. Its basic human nature when ye think about it...the need to see justice being done not watching the law fumble and faff around with both hands tied to their ankles as to what they can actually, legally do.
But thats a political argument so isnt gonna happen. I stopped supporting the concept of democracy because I simply dont see it working...if anything its simply made things worse fer us especially as regards the current...problems the UK is having over us.
Again...political so subject to being yafflized...cant win no matter what ye do so do me a favour mods and close the thread...or just ban me before I say something I really will regret because even thinking about the whole situation just makes my blood boil...and this really aint the place fer any of this, my apologies now Im sober enough to think straight.
Close the thread please ^
Well said.
The fact that most try to defend their lies, suggest that we don't think we should tell them.
I can see both sides of the vigilante thing. The legal systems frequently powerless or just broken and very easily bought. On the other hand there's no proof required for vigilante justice so people can take advantage of that and use it for less than moral purposes.
A good example would be getting rid of a dealer for being "bad for the community" whilst in reality just replacing him with one of your own.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
The lying that politicians do is reprehensible if they are using lying as a tool for personal gain. If they really believe that what they say is for the best interest of the many and if they believe they are telling what they believe is the truth, then no matter how deluded in reality they may be, they are "innocent." What we believe is "right" is completely dependent on our upbringing, education, and genetic makeup. It's the internal motivation that matters.
At any rate, whatever I say is probably gobbledygook anyway. I shouldn't judge either.
o7
In my country politicians are actually legally protected, to lie.
I think it should be perjury.
Here in the UK we have a chap in the house of lords sitting in judgment on new laws that apply to the rest of us who spent time in prison for exactly that.
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verminstar
Banned
Dont start me lest I get meself banned...I hate to admit it but I do actually place some value on having the privilege to post here at all considering how much of a mouth I have as a critic of the guys who run it. That in itself is a gift one does not lightly throw to one side with a hasty reply in what has, without meaning to, become political and ergo highly controversial and open to someene getting offended far too easily.
My apolgies, sincerely. This rant started on the tail end of a near week long bender...theres a reason I never drank before because me and booze equals silly stuff. Im dry now cos someone made me promise to try harder so on reflection, Id still like the thread to close...reason being that Ive already said too much already and this really isnt the place fer me to start spilling my personal issues onto. While the topic itself may well make fer an interesting debate, which is debateable in its own way, I admit that wasnt my original intention.
Its yer own fault cos yer way smarter and less biased than anyone else I can talk to...but however...on that note, by all means mods, close the thread...fer my own protection cos these issues trouble me greatly and if I start, I wont stop ^
My apolgies, sincerely. This rant started on the tail end of a near week long bender...theres a reason I never drank before because me and booze equals silly stuff. Im dry now cos someone made me promise to try harder so on reflection, Id still like the thread to close...reason being that Ive already said too much already and this really isnt the place fer me to start spilling my personal issues onto. While the topic itself may well make fer an interesting debate, which is debateable in its own way, I admit that wasnt my original intention.
Its yer own fault cos yer way smarter and less biased than anyone else I can talk to...but however...on that note, by all means mods, close the thread...fer my own protection cos these issues trouble me greatly and if I start, I wont stop ^
My best wishes and warmest regards to you, Verm, and your daughter. I feel privileged that you would trust us with your doubts. As your daughter gets older, she will get to know herself through experience what code of conduct is necessary to her integrity. Teach her to hang on to that for dear life because otherwise life becomes meaningless. And if she disagrees with you, I hope to God that you have taught her to be as tenacious as you are.
Then, you can post another thread about it.
Then, you can post another thread about it.
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