The Art of the Grief: A Primer on Open Play Expectations

Tiny_Rick

Banned
Perhaps it's because I've been visiting the threads more often, but I've been seeing a uptick in criticism against those who play in Open. So much salt about griefers, and for those of us awaiting PS4 release, it has becomes a topic of particular conversation. Of mention is the suggestion that Open would be detrimental to a first time player. I want to curb that sentiment.

I think it's important to provide some understanding to those who haven't played, and more importantly, to those of us who are tenured CMDR's and will be making the transition over. There is a huge opportunity that many new players will have that, frankly, has passed for PC/Mac/Xbox, and that's a new canvas. With a new canvas comes a new player base, as well as the opportunity to establish some positive, healthy considerations with respect to playing in Open. Let's get a few things on the table before we head into the black.

First and foremost, Open should be played with the understanding that at any given moment, game play becomes a cooperative experience, regardless of your desire to keep it that way. While you might be enjoying the solitude of exploration, mining, trading, you absolutely must respect (and more importantly, accept) the possibility that other players look forward to changing that alone time.

That last part should be read with emphasis, and it's with that point that ED transcends co-op. It's a simple concept that must be reminded early and often: Open is meant to be played with others. Those who assume that Open is a playground for griefing must understand that often times griefers have a greater cohesive and cooperative play style than the lone players risking rebuys in the vacuum of space without proper backup. Griefers often operate with greater numbers and better weapons, specifically hunting those who aren't respecting the tenants of Open play. Those tenants, as I've discovered, have allowed me to enjoy Open much more, mainly because I accepted that Open play requires a willingness to let go of playing like a single player.

These tenants are probably shared by one or two CMDR's, and I'll love input from the real vets, but here's the gist:

- In Open, unless you have wingers to your left, right, and six, you're a soft target
- In Open, if you fly alone, you fly with contingencies, countermeasures and a strategy that assumes you will always be outgunned
- In Open, expect any hollow triangle to be a threat unless empirical evidence provides facts to the contrary
- In Open, realize that you are agreeing to drop into a game space where candor, respect, and even a bit of bootlicking become a greater shield than your prismatics
- In Open, accept that you are expected to be to social, even if it's to call in a security detail or parlay with the griefer
- In Open, accept your fate; griefers don't care about combat logging, but FD does (read: Don't do it)


I hope CMDR's whose Sony Sidewinders will soon un-dock for the first time not get into the bad habit of blaming griefers for their grief. At the end of the day, most griefing happens because someone pushed their luck too far into space, and someone else was there to exploit that. At the very least, I would kindly request that new CMDR's stick together and stay social, and should the need arise, bounce into Solo for a breather. But of all the egregious errors we're capable of committing, the last thing I want to see in the Sony Milky Way is combat loggers. I guess that's why I'm trying to be prophylactic in hedging expectations.

Good luck, CMDR's. I'll see you out there, and if you see me, send me an o7.

In my next series, I provide guidance on how to stalk, befriend, capture and eventually breed your own personal griefer.
 
Last edited:
Perhaps it's because I've been visiting the threads more often, but I've been seeing a uptick in criticism against those who play in Open. So much salt about griefers, and for those of us awaiting PS4 release, it has becomes a topic of particular conversation. Of mention is the suggestion that Open would be detrimental to a first time player. I want to curb that sentiment.

I think it's important to provide some understanding to those who haven't played, and more importantly, to those of us who are tenured CMDR's and will be making the transition over. There is a huge opportunity that many new players will have that, frankly, has passed for PC/Mac/Xbox, and that's a new canvas. With a new canvas comes a new player base, as well as the opportunity to establish some positive, healthy considerations with respect to playing in Open. Let's get a few things on the table before we head into the black.

First and foremost, Open should be played with the understanding that at any given moment, game play becomes a cooperative experience, regardless of your desire to keep it that way. While you might be enjoying the solitude of exploration, mining, trading, you absolutely must respect (and more importantly, accept) the possibility that other players look forward to changing that alone time.

That last part should be read with emphasis, and it's with that point that ED transcends co-op. It's a simple concept that must be reminded early and often: Open is meant to be played with others. Those who assume that Open is a playground for griefing must understand that often times griefers have a greater cohesive and cooperative play style than the lone players risking rebuys in the vacuum of space without proper backup. Griefers often operate with greater numbers and better weapons, specifically hunting those who aren't respecting the tenants of Open play. Those tenants, as I've discovered, have allowed me to enjoy Open much more, mainly because I accepted that Open play requires a willingness to let go of playing like a single player.

These tenants are probably shared by one or two CMDR's, and I'll love input from the real vets, but here's the gist:

- In Open, unless you have wingers to your left, right, and six, you're a soft target
- In Open, if you fly alone, you fly with contingencies, countermeasures and a strategy that assumes you will always be outgunned
- In Open, expect any hollow triangle to be a threat unless empirical evidence provides facts to the contrary
- In Open, realize that you are agreeing to drop into a game space where candor, respect, and even a bit of bootlicking become a greater shield than your prismatics
- In Open, accept that you are expected to be to social, even if it's to call in a security detail or parlay with the griefer
- In Open, accept your fate; griefers don't care about combat logging, but FD does (read: Don't do it)


I hope CMDR's whose Sony Sidewinders will soon un-dock for the first time not get into the bad habit of blaming griefers for their grief. At the end of the day, most griefing happens because someone pushed their luck too far into space, and someone else was there to exploit that. At the very least, I would kindly request that new CMDR's stick together and stay social, and should the need arise, bounce into Solo for a breather. But of all the egregious errors we're capable of committing, the last thing I want to see in the Sony Milky Way is combat loggers. I guess that's why I'm trying to be prophylactic in hedging expectations.

Good luck, CMDR's. I'll see you out there, and if you see me, send me an o7.

In my next series, I provide guidance on how to stalk, befriend, capture and eventually breed your own personal griefer.
I think open is the way to go but there are times when you need to switch to solo for certain things. The galaxy is SO big that unless you are in popular systems it is rare you run into players. I am a player that will never attack another player no matter what faction unless discussed first. People have to grind so much in this game that destroying someone just for fun can ruin their experience with in the game. It is awesome to meet people out in the depths of space. Finding groups to do community events would be fun as well. I can't wait to meet all of you out there!
 
I am coming from PC where I always played in solo because I got a late start in the game. The fact that everyone will be starting in a sidewinder and no overpowered ship will be in the sky's makes me excited the chance to enter OPEN. The sidewinder is a great time to test the waters as it is replaced free if lost minus any upgrades you made. I feel new players have a much higher threat of loosing a ship dew to pilot error than they do a griefer.

great post thanks.
 
Last edited:
tl:dr?

The moment you click Start -> Open you consent to PvP. Enjoy, it is flippin' brilliant! :)

(but in a new ship I practice in Mobius :D)
 
Of all the people who whine about open, I wonder how many played the original game?

Nothing, and no one has claimed more ships than the letterbox in the original game.

The Letterbox. The original griefer - and still the best. Makes the Smiling Dogs look like whining puppies.
Z...
 
Last edited:
Of all the people who whine about open, I wonder how many played the original game?

Nothing, and no one has claimed more ships than the letterbox in the original game.
Z...

This is so true, BBC Micro, ASDWX and that flipping letterbox! I had a docking computer briefly, until the Old Chap bought a PC and got rid of the BBC Micro, and then all my hard work was lost. I still haven't forgiven him!
 
This is so true, BBC Micro, ASDWX and that flipping letterbox! I had a docking computer briefly, until the Old Chap bought a PC and got rid of the BBC Micro, and then all my hard work was lost. I still haven't forgiven him!

You didn't force him to buy you the PC version? Shame on you!

Z...
 
Perhaps it's because I've been visiting the threads more often, but I've been seeing a uptick in criticism against those who play in Open. So much salt about griefers, and for those of us awaiting PS4 release, it has becomes a topic of particular conversation. Of mention is the suggestion that Open would be detrimental to a first time player. I want to curb that sentiment.

I think it's important to provide some understanding to those who haven't played, and more importantly, to those of us who are tenured CMDR's and will be making the transition over. There is a huge opportunity that many new players will have that, frankly, has passed for PC/Mac/Xbox, and that's a new canvas. With a new canvas comes a new player base, as well as the opportunity to establish some positive, healthy considerations with respect to playing in Open. Let's get a few things on the table before we head into the black.

First and foremost, Open should be played with the understanding that at any given moment, game play becomes a cooperative experience, regardless of your desire to keep it that way. While you might be enjoying the solitude of exploration, mining, trading, you absolutely must respect (and more importantly, accept) the possibility that other players look forward to changing that alone time.

That last part should be read with emphasis, and it's with that point that ED transcends co-op. It's a simple concept that must be reminded early and often: Open is meant to be played with others. Those who assume that Open is a playground for griefing must understand that often times griefers have a greater cohesive and cooperative play style than the lone players risking rebuys in the vacuum of space without proper backup. Griefers often operate with greater numbers and better weapons, specifically hunting those who aren't respecting the tenants of Open play. Those tenants, as I've discovered, have allowed me to enjoy Open much more, mainly because I accepted that Open play requires a willingness to let go of playing like a single player.

These tenants are probably shared by one or two CMDR's, and I'll love input from the real vets, but here's the gist:

- In Open, unless you have wingers to your left, right, and six, you're a soft target
- In Open, if you fly alone, you fly with contingencies, countermeasures and a strategy that assumes you will always be outgunned
- In Open, expect any hollow triangle to be a threat unless empirical evidence provides facts to the contrary
- In Open, realize that you are agreeing to drop into a game space where candor, respect, and even a bit of bootlicking become a greater shield than your prismatics
- In Open, accept that you are expected to be to social, even if it's to call in a security detail or parlay with the griefer
- In Open, accept your fate; griefers don't care about combat logging, but FD does (read: Don't do it)


I hope CMDR's whose Sony Sidewinders will soon un-dock for the first time not get into the bad habit of blaming griefers for their grief. At the end of the day, most griefing happens because someone pushed their luck too far into space, and someone else was there to exploit that. At the very least, I would kindly request that new CMDR's stick together and stay social, and should the need arise, bounce into Solo for a breather. But of all the egregious errors we're capable of committing, the last thing I want to see in the Sony Milky Way is combat loggers. I guess that's why I'm trying to be prophylactic in hedging expectations.

Good luck, CMDR's. I'll see you out there, and if you see me, send me an o7.

In my next series, I provide guidance on how to stalk, befriend, capture and eventually breed your own personal griefer.

If I understand you correctly:

If you get blown up then you were asking to be blown up, all in the name if being social.

Oxymoron.
 
You didn't force him to buy you the PC version? Shame on you!
Buy?
The 1984 version is free for both PC and OSX right here: https://www.frontierstore.net/games/elite-dangerous-cat.html

As for topic, I disagree clicking Open is saying "I want to PvP"; clicking Open is saying "I want to interact with humans". A subtle but distinct difference.

You may get PvP, either consensual or non-consensual, but it's not the same. Beyond that the OP's warnings should be taken heed. If you see a hollow triangle always assume there may be combat.
Most CMDRs are just doing their stuff: hauling, missions, looking for a specific module etc. PvPers generally have certain indicators to look out for:

- go to left panel / target and check their subsystems
- do they have a FSD Interdictor?
- do they have PvE (sustain, often lasers or MCs) or PvP (burst, like plasma or rails) type weapons?
- do they have cargo racks, scanners, or any non combat modules?
- do they only have SCBs and hull reinforcements?

If they have a FSD interdictor and start to manoeuvre behind your ship, and indicator above align, it's a PvPer.

Decide if you want combat, but unless you're in a PvP engineered ship, always assume you're outgunned. Ditto solo vs in a wing. Then take appropriate action either way.


I will also say that if you are exploring then going into Solo is far better, as there's less loading and so long distance jumping is faster than being in Open. This is not being a carebear, just optimising your time.
I'm not sure about high resolution screenshots now, but in the past you had to be in Solo to get 4K shots. This is not being a carebear.

In general for new PS4ers, i'd advise NOT going to Open until you have learnt the controls (ie do not panic under pressure to find things), and not going to CGs or hotspots in Open until you've really nailed your evasion techniques.
Study the online training videos, do the tutorials. But most important is have fun! Open can be great: meeting different people from different countries; spontaneous wings to farm a RES; sharing trade runs. Just be careful. and if you find it overwhelming and you are getting ganked, just go to Solo or private groups. Have fun, don't let others dictate to you.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7glm5rbPHKxnltQU1SLxdqQrENIXJGUr
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7glm5rbPHKx8MWl-oKkxLvEcAmumMVtw
 

stormyuk

Volunteer Moderator
In my next series, I provide guidance on how to stalk, befriend, capture and eventually breed your own personal griefer.

Does this mean you plan to be a griefer on PS4 and you are just laying your blame cards at everyone else's feet before you start?

While all you say I don't actually have issue with and I have read a lot on how to avoid grief. I am sure I won't be 100% successful but I will try. Unfortunately as its been mentioned in countless other threads ED does not have an effective C&P system to dissuade grief. It might never so as you say always watch your back out there. I'll be especially careful around you. ;)

I wont always want to fly in wing and want to play Open as much as I can, if I am doing something that I absolutely don't want to risk grief, I'll just switch to Solo for that activity.
 
Folks, please!

I have been bumbling around the galaxy in open for several months, crashing whatever I can afford to fly into anything that happens to be in the same solar system as me. I am an older guy with slow reactions, not some PvP expert with a tooled up FDL or whatever.

I have yet to be griefed, ganked or killed by another player. I have yet to be fired upon by another CMDR outside of a Conflict Zone or RES site. Open is not a problem if you take a few basic (and really frickin' easy) precautions.

I have however been killed by NPCs on numerous occasions. NPCs don't play fair either, so please do not worry about the "boogymen" that the carebear types tell you will ruin your game. Yes, they exist, but is is a bleedin' HUGE galaxy and there are far more NPCs out to get you than people lacking in the trouser department.

Fly aware and you will fly safe.

Hibachi, scourge of SDC (not), reaper of the Code (never seen one), destroyer of the 13th Legion (who?), target practise for NPCs.
 
Perhaps it's because I've been visiting the threads more often, but I've been seeing a uptick in criticism against those who play in Open. So much salt about griefers, and for those of us awaiting PS4 release, it has becomes a topic of particular conversation. Of mention is the suggestion that Open would be detrimental to a first time player. I want to curb that sentiment.

Great post, really insightful. It really echoes a lot of my thoughts on Open/Solo and how those modes actually work rather than how I *think* they should work. It's nice to know I am not that far off from how an experienced player sees it =]

My only point, and it's a personal one and I am aware of this, that the definition of 'griefing' used on this forum is not one I accept. But I totally understand why you used it, and I think you were right to as it's what most people understand by that term.
 
I wont always want to fly in wing and want to play Open as much as I can, if I am doing something that I absolutely don't want to risk grief, I'll just switch to Solo for that activity.

^ this. My sentiments exactly. I envisage this is exactly how Frontier will expect most rational people to play, and have made the game as they have to support this.
 
Do you need anything special to start a private group? As in a server or is it all done via P2P? We should start our own 'founding fathers' group if we can. Nothing to rival Mobius, I think that's just a huge target for certain types, but a small group we could go in as a mid way point between open and solo. We can reminisce about the good old days when we used to twiddle our thumbs and complain on the forum about no release date ;-)
 
Here we go...

How so?

I just find your train of thought has inconsistencies, ambiguities and plain old contradictions.

I salute you for trying though. I really do.
However, just because you personally have not encountered PKers in Open, this doesn't mean they don't exist. I witnessed it myself this weekend while running a little "Open Experiment" in the CG system (I favour Mobius as a preferred environment in which to "play"*, "my"**, "game"***). Got ganked by a wing of 4. Immediately. I then went back and re-positioned myself 500Ls out from the star-to-CG-shipping-lane using Mobius. Having positioned myself I dipped back in to Open from where I observed - in several different instances - for over 30 minutes. The word I would use is TOXIC. PK wings (NOT pirates) taking down singleton soft targets. If it were proper pirates, the inderdicted soft targets would re-appear in SC. At least one or two would reappear in the same instance. But none of them did. Not a single one. Nada.

I wish it wasn't this way. I really want, want, want the PS4 Open to evolve differently, but I bet you anything that it doesn't (rhetorical bet, because it is open-ended)(PS4 has games like CoD, doesn't it???). I'm willing to wager that the Open PS4 Environment turns out just as TOXIC as the PC version. Which saddens me. A lot. But, hey, this is the way it was allowed to develop, so who am I to say it should be different.

I, too, am an old guy compared to the typical computer gamer. That doesn't mean I am at a disadvantage due to poor reflexes, or anything. Hell, if I *wanted* to PvP I'm certain I'd be pretty good at it, but the truth is I have zero interest in that style of play.
Let's talk interdiction - 9 times out of 10 I will win the interdiction against human players - and when I forsee I'm going to lose I submit, boost and high wake. It just gets monotonous being re-interdicted again and again by the same player instantly the interdiction has been evaded. I also found a glitch this weekend whereby after submitting, and the game confirming I had submitted... it dropped me with hull damage and overheated FSD, so I wasn't able to survive in an A-rated military hulled Python against a wing of 4 PKers before the FSD cooled.

Yours Aye

Mark H

*"play" = use of my hard-won leisure time for something enjoyable
**"my" = something that I, personally, find enjoyable
***"game" = it is supposed to be fun for all parties, not merely fun just on one side.

False argument 1: Open is the one true environment, because this is the only one which is "Dangerous" (yawn). Question - if you are in a wing of 4 engineered PKers, what is making the galaxy "Dangerous" for you????
False argument 2: Don't go to CGs unless you are tooled up (and git gud). Question - why would I bother to go to a trade CG in a tooled up combat optimised fighter with next-to-no cargo capacity, if any cargo capacity at all???
 

PKers exist in Open, that is indisputable.

I think what we're trying to say here is that by clicking Open, you are accepting these risks.

We are saying that there are ways to avoid being player killed, with a sensible build and effective tactics. Not to labour the point too much but in actual air combat novice pilots would freeze, fly in a straight line and otherwise get themselves killed really easily, or panic to the same result.

Should Open be like this? This isn't the question, as Open IS like this at the moment, so we are suggesting ways to mitigate the rare times when other players "force their playstyle on you".

For me, the feeling when I limp into a CG station with less than 10% Hull, but delivering a full load from my (largely) unengineered T7 is great because I know I have out flown, out piloted and out lucked other human beings.

This is the reason I play in Open, along with the random winging up in a CG, hiRES etc, I hope other players, and our new PS4 brothers will feel the same.
 
PKers exist in Open, that is indisputable.

I think what we're trying to say here is that by clicking Open, you are accepting these risks.

We are saying that there are ways to avoid being player killed, with a sensible build and effective tactics. Not to labour the point too much but in actual air combat novice pilots would freeze, fly in a straight line and otherwise get themselves killed really easily, or panic to the same result.

Should Open be like this? This isn't the question, as Open IS like this at the moment, so we are suggesting ways to mitigate the rare times when other players "force their playstyle on you".

For me, the feeling when I limp into a CG station with less than 10% Hull, but delivering a full load from my (largely) unengineered T7 is great because I know I have out flown, out piloted and out lucked other human beings.

This is the reason I play in Open, along with the random winging up in a CG, hiRES etc, I hope other players, and our new PS4 brothers will feel the same.


Well said. I salute you for entering into Open in a T7...

May I ask what real experiance you have of Actual Air Combat, though?

Yours Aye

Mark H
 
Well said. I salute you for entering into Open in a T7...

May I ask what real experiance you have of Actual Air Combat, though?

Yours Aye

Mark H

At the risk of a derail - no combat experience, but I started on gliders and progressed to the World Famous DH Chipmunk and there's a point in all flight training where having to cope with 3D maneuvering with your poor monkey brain becomes too much, I honestly practically had a nervous breakdown. Having spoke to other pilots this is actually quite common, after this point you "get it" and flying becomes a whole lot easier.

My point is that (and I have experienced this in sims as well as in Elite) when you are first interdicted by a Cmdr (and especially in Elite as there is a big transition) you have to act fast, not panic and have your tactics ready to go especially if you are running. I have panicked against Cmdrs and NPCs and have ended up looking at the rebuy screen, or been indecisive and tried to fight and flee and ended up at the rebuy screen.

I've not been fortunate enough to be interdicted by a wing, so I'm not 100% sure that the same evasive tactics would work but I am confident there is a way to avoid them and get out.

When you get it wrong you are destroyed so fast, it can seem that you've no chance, thankfully unlike real life you do get to practice again and again. This is why it is especially important for new players (IMHO) to start in open and start getting experience avoiding vastly superior ships and learning all the other tricks us "veterans" can use to avoid the "gank". Of course there is no in-game explanation of this and that is why the forum is helpful so people can learn, or join the discord or whatever.

That's not to say at all that other modes are lesser version of this great game, but Open does carry within it an inherent risk when you choose it. That may or may not be for you which is fine - but instadeath is not the only way it's got to be.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom