The best or worst Elite story you’ve never heard

In 2015 I dropped into a sidewinder with thousands of other Cmdrs, with little more knowledge of what to do than excitedly smash the ‘launch’ button and cautiously venture out of the mail slot. The next few hours, days, weeks, and months would be spent captivated by the highest learning curve, punishing risk/ reward, and awe inspiring scale and gameplay I had felt in a game to that point in my life. It was truly incredible and had nearly gotten to the point that I was addicted, quite literally.

That first year of exploration of the entirety of Elite was euphoric, but not without nuances- as the main hot topic of the time was credits. Where to find them, and why they were so ungodly slow to earn. Credits were the pilot’s ticket to freedom, and they were very hard to come by. With bounty hunting being punishing for those unable to kill big ticket bounties expediently - if at all, mining paying peanuts, trading requiring massive cargo vessels and huge time sinks that casuals couldn’t commit to or afford, and exploration being the laughingstock of credit farming (much to Bongo’s dismay).

However, there was a glimmer of hope… a profession that offered a moderate time sink, high skill ceiling, prudent planning, improvisation, business accumen, patience, and a gambling problem. The way it worked:

You’d need a ship that could dock at an outpost, so my choice was the AspX. I could fit about 80T of cargo with 5A thrusters and a 2C shield to fend off any bumpy rides. Fighting was out of the question, especially with a full cargo hold. I needed speed and maneuverability, and enough shields to last about 3-4 seconds of FSD boot while getting hammered.

The pickup location was just on the outer rim of the bubble, a small system called Robigo. Robigo offered BIG ticket payouts for high risk smuggling work, human cargo- slaves. At the time there was an exploit where you could swap modes and stack missions offered between solo and multiplayer modes. You could do it the legit way by just waiting for a mission board refresh but that could take about 15 minutes, and swapping was just faster for players on a time crunch, especially if your missions had a short delivery window. You could stack about 10 missions paying anywhere from 3 - 15 million per drop off, pending on how many slaves you could fit in your hold per mission etc.

This. Was. Huge. I mean HUGE cash for the time. You could potentially make between 30 - 50 million credits for a 30 to 40 minute Robigo run (if you were good). And good God the risk was worth the reward. And that’s what made this gameplay better and more exhilarating than anything of the time. The loop itself was high risk. If you were scanned at any point in your journey, game over- every mission you collected was failed in an instant.

I used to call it the gauntlet. From the second you launched, it was a mad dash to beat the white knight Cmdrs trying to scan you in protest of mode swapping, ruining your run right off the bat, even if you had collected the missions legitimately. Sometimes they’d be circling the outpost and targeting/ scanning Cmdrs inside by selecting you from the nav panel- another exploit, but for the self-proclaimed ‘good guys’ it was AOK (thanks FDev). If you’re lucky enough to make it out of Robigo, there would be plenty more interdictions to fight, quick plotting changes to make while scooping, navigating the fuel scoop dead zone with no scoopable stars for several jump lengths, submitting and running from pirates, and finally - making it to your first heavily patrolled federal drop off point, moving like a slug with 80T of spacesick slaves after bobbing and weaving for 130LY in a 13LY jump range AspX.

I would drop into the station radius about 10km out, lining up the mail slot shot at full speed, just barely beating the scan and screaming through the mail slot, flipping the 180 FA off boost Ebrake and slamming her wide butt down on the landing pad. Drop off 1 complete. Time to do it 9 more times, deeper into the bubble each time. All the while remembering the feeling of your gut dropping as the bright orange triangle flashed on your screen 10 times in quick succession after you couldn’t escape a scan. Gut punch- time to start all over or call it a night. For me, this was peak Elite.

A mix of emergent gameplay, bad behavior, high risk/ reward, legitimate skill/ pilot requirement, and genuine fun. I couldn’t tell you how many times my buddies and I would make the gauntlet runs together and either have a great night bathing in credits or a terrible night ending in gut wrenching defeat. Unfortunately though, these times didn’t last long.

Within a couple of months Robigo would be dismantled, offering no more smuggling missions, on top of having the entire smuggling mission functionality nerfed into the ground. The entire profession was killed, right out of the gate, year one. FDev had dropped the hammer so brutally hard that smuggling wouldn’t even be considered a valid profession for another 5 years or so, if it can even be called that now. Not even a chance at compromise or salvaging the gameplay loop. The next several months would be a mirror image of lucrative gameplay loops being smashed into the ground by FDev, time and time again. The first blow to Robigo, for me, was the wake up call. I kept playing, but I had lost my fire for the game that I had back then and having watched FDev continue along their path of questionable development choices over the years has been anything but fun.

The reason I still come around these forums and putter about in my engineered murder Vette is evident from my experience outlined above- I’ve still never had a game come close to what this game gave me year one. I’m still around because I always had hope, but I’ve never put myself in a position to feel let down by FDev again. I felt the potential this game had back then, and watched miss after miss after miss. I know there are plenty of you out there that are okay with the way things have gone and are now, and that’s okay. But I haven’t been for a while, and that’s okay too.

Long story short, this is why I get on here and hold FDevs feet to the fire. Over time, it has, in my view- been a clear and consistent bumpy mess of poor decision after poor decision, and I’ve never been able to tell exactly who’s interests FDev choices are actually geared towards, because it hasn’t been mine.

Hope you enjoyed the story as much as I enjoyed playing it, no matter how short lived it was.

o7
 
The clue was the word exploit.

Soon as that's posted about a given topic, the nerf hammer n anvil is sure to follow.
Ti's human nature to exploit. Along with theft murder and other dark things.
Fdev have to plug the rifts. Close the exploits. Like the mining egg in borann.
Things change.
For better or worse.
One man's meat is another's poison.
So their in a precarious position walking a tightrope trying to please everyone.

Anyways you asked for a funny story.
It's not mine it's some other poor unfortunate cmdr.
Whilst streaming video and flying low level he accidentally flew into the ground.
There was a deathly silence. His face was a picture. Cos l think he'd realised he'd lost about 6 mths of data....in that crucial moment time stood still..
It's definitely not funny. Unless of course your not him.

o7
 
What is this "risk/reward" you speak of?
83B2E654-F5F7-442D-B767-29422C607D2A.gif
 
In 2015 I dropped into a sidewinder with thousands of other Cmdrs, with little more knowledge of what to do than excitedly smash the ‘launch’ button and cautiously venture out of the mail slot. The next few hours, days, weeks, and months would be spent captivated by the highest learning curve, punishing risk/ reward, and awe inspiring scale and gameplay I had felt in a game to that point in my life. It was truly incredible and had nearly gotten to the point that I was addicted, quite literally.

That first year of exploration of the entirety of Elite was euphoric, but not without nuances- as the main hot topic of the time was credits. Where to find them, and why they were so ungodly slow to earn. Credits were the pilot’s ticket to freedom, and they were very hard to come by. With bounty hunting being punishing for those unable to kill big ticket bounties expediently - if at all, mining paying peanuts, trading requiring massive cargo vessels and huge time sinks that casuals couldn’t commit to or afford, and exploration being the laughingstock of credit farming (much to Bongo’s dismay).

However, there was a glimmer of hope… a profession that offered a moderate time sink, high skill ceiling, prudent planning, improvisation, business accumen, patience, and a gambling problem. The way it worked:

You’d need a ship that could dock at an outpost, so my choice was the AspX. I could fit about 80T of cargo with 5A thrusters and a 2C shield to fend off any bumpy rides. Fighting was out of the question, especially with a full cargo hold. I needed speed and maneuverability, and enough shields to last about 3-4 seconds of FSD boot while getting hammered.

The pickup location was just on the outer rim of the bubble, a small system called Robigo. Robigo offered BIG ticket payouts for high risk smuggling work, human cargo- slaves. At the time there was an exploit where you could swap modes and stack missions offered between solo and multiplayer modes. You could do it the legit way by just waiting for a mission board refresh but that could take about 15 minutes, and swapping was just faster for players on a time crunch, especially if your missions had a short delivery window. You could stack about 10 missions paying anywhere from 3 - 15 million per drop off, pending on how many slaves you could fit in your hold per mission etc.

This. Was. Huge. I mean HUGE cash for the time. You could potentially make between 30 - 50 million credits for a 30 to 40 minute Robigo run (if you were good). And good God the risk was worth the reward. And that’s what made this gameplay better and more exhilarating than anything of the time. The loop itself was high risk. If you were scanned at any point in your journey, game over- every mission you collected was failed in an instant.

I used to call it the gauntlet. From the second you launched, it was a mad dash to beat the white knight Cmdrs trying to scan you in protest of mode swapping, ruining your run right off the bat, even if you had collected the missions legitimately. Sometimes they’d be circling the outpost and targeting/ scanning Cmdrs inside by selecting you from the nav panel- another exploit, but for the self-proclaimed ‘good guys’ it was AOK (thanks FDev). If you’re lucky enough to make it out of Robigo, there would be plenty more interdictions to fight, quick plotting changes to make while scooping, navigating the fuel scoop dead zone with no scoopable stars for several jump lengths, submitting and running from pirates, and finally - making it to your first heavily patrolled federal drop off point, moving like a slug with 80T of spacesick slaves after bobbing and weaving for 130LY in a 13LY jump range AspX.

I would drop into the station radius about 10km out, lining up the mail slot shot at full speed, just barely beating the scan and screaming through the mail slot, flipping the 180 FA off boost Ebrake and slamming her wide butt down on the landing pad. Drop off 1 complete. Time to do it 9 more times, deeper into the bubble each time. All the while remembering the feeling of your gut dropping as the bright orange triangle flashed on your screen 10 times in quick succession after you couldn’t escape a scan. Gut punch- time to start all over or call it a night. For me, this was peak Elite.

A mix of emergent gameplay, bad behavior, high risk/ reward, legitimate skill/ pilot requirement, and genuine fun. I couldn’t tell you how many times my buddies and I would make the gauntlet runs together and either have a great night bathing in credits or a terrible night ending in gut wrenching defeat. Unfortunately though, these times didn’t last long.

Within a couple of months Robigo would be dismantled, offering no more smuggling missions, on top of having the entire smuggling mission functionality nerfed into the ground. The entire profession was killed, right out of the gate, year one. FDev had dropped the hammer so brutally hard that smuggling wouldn’t even be considered a valid profession for another 5 years or so, if it can even be called that now. Not even a chance at compromise or salvaging the gameplay loop. The next several months would be a mirror image of lucrative gameplay loops being smashed into the ground by FDev, time and time again. The first blow to Robigo, for me, was the wake up call. I kept playing, but I had lost my fire for the game that I had back then and having watched FDev continue along their path of questionable development choices over the years has been anything but fun.

The reason I still come around these forums and putter about in my engineered murder Vette is evident from my experience outlined above- I’ve still never had a game come close to what this game gave me year one. I’m still around because I always had hope, but I’ve never put myself in a position to feel let down by FDev again. I felt the potential this game had back then, and watched miss after miss after miss. I know there are plenty of you out there that are okay with the way things have gone and are now, and that’s okay. But I haven’t been for a while, and that’s okay too.

Long story short, this is why I get on here and hold FDevs feet to the fire. Over time, it has, in my view- been a clear and consistent bumpy mess of poor decision after poor decision, and I’ve never been able to tell exactly who’s interests FDev choices are actually geared towards, because it hasn’t been mine.

Hope you enjoyed the story as much as I enjoyed playing it, no matter how short lived it was.

o7
It’s a good story, but a key part of the story IMHO was the start of it, which is in many ways the essence of the game - making your way in a cold, uncaring, hostile universe.

That sets the scene for finding a gold rush. Especially a fulfilling one.

But it also shows the problem - after the goldrush has been round for a while the first part of your story starts to not happen - because people skip that because the gold rush has ceased to be a gold rush and has become the standard way of doing things which new players are guided to straight away.

And the longer a gold rush stays round for, the worse the situation gets.

So for others to experience what you experienced, gold rushes need to be temporary. And by all rights, gold rushes should dry up naturally the more they are publicised and the more people do them. So when something doesn’t eventually self-negate, then FD have to address it.

Have they always done it the best way? Maybe not, but the principle of why it needs to be done is there. Look what happened when they left the mining gold rushes for as long as they did. New players following guides were earning billions and getting trade Elite virtually overnight, having to make pretty much zero effort themselves, and a whole generation of players were given the expectation that they should be getting 200MCr per hour as a standard - again for very little personal effort.

The difference between what those players experienced and what you describe at the start of the story is huge.

And as I said earlier in the post, what you described at the start of your story is what the game supposed to be like. As is finding a gold rush. But again, the gold rush ending has to be part of it too, or no one else can experience the story.

I for one am glad that I got to experience a similar story.

But let me ask, what was the feedback like to FD? Was it all complaining about the gold rush ending? Or was the focus on putting the credit earning aspect to one side and saying what the gameplay aspects were that had made it enjoyable, and encouraging them to deliver more gameplay like that?
 
if you did once enjoy the game for the reasons you bought it, realizing its a Kickstarter game that will be in development daily for the next ten years and that Obviously everything is going to be this on 1 day, and that on another day.
you had fun
then you didn't
been there, done that, rinse and repeat. since 2014(backer)
In development changes bites a lot occasionally.
some exploits got fixed fast
some took years for them to even notice or even believe, then very poorly or very nicely fixed. - perspective

not sure what the draw was for you, seems like its smuggling..

for me, I like flying the ships. everything else is extra. And there is a lot of extra.

enjoy, or not..
 
But let me ask, what was the feedback like to FD? Was it all complaining about the gold rush ending? Or was the focus on putting the credit earning aspect to one side and saying what the gameplay aspects were that had made it enjoyable, and encouraging them to deliver more gameplay like that?
If I recall, there was a back and forth to find a middle ground for many of the gold rush culls. But the response from FDev was always the same. The problem wasn’t nerfing the gold rush outright, the problem was outright killing a viable gameplay loop to such a degree that they created a habit of having players hop from one rush to another to fill a void in gameplay AND credits. The response should have always been a mild nerf and exploit fix that kept the loop relevant. Not the crushing hammer with no looking back.

They could have permit locked Robigo with a crime syndicate faction, or any other number of methods to elongate the process of making it a viable career, but that has never been the case even to this day.
 
There is also some room in there from my perspective to point out what I see from my BGS perspective.

That is to say that a lot of exploits or good loops for trade, missions, massacres, etc..end up as destroyed very often because many cmdrs have no interest or idea about the BGS

It is important to use balance
and even though most of this type of exploit/loop depends on current factions status remaining the same, it does NOT create or keep balance.
There is always at least 1 faction that loses in this non balanced mission taking
it always means the same, the system or systems being exploited end up with factions changing places due to heavy vs not so heavy missions being done.

I know this all to well because this is where massacre missions go.
5 years of this loop/exploit existing with fdev being blind to it mostly.
And because I do the BGS and I had/have my own loops that never ended because I do the BGS and as such I make the effort to keep the factions where they are.
Yet having watched so many get nerfed by fdev because cmdrs would not stop or try to fix themselves.
And so many get destroyed because of system flipping, factions inf destroyed, changing positions and retreated faction that people ignore completely and curse fdev for nerfing what THEY themselves broke.

Most of the systems that are now owned by other pmf's in my area(once mine, thanks fdev) are this way now too because not one of those pmf's seems to understand or care about the local economy or how the BGS really works.
I spent years building a very good profitable BGS economy between all the factions in over 60 systems, main focus on 18 key systems, only to watch it slowly erode away because of lack of BGS knowledge.

If you have records of Robigo and what went on, as I also do, I was there too. You will see that what I am saying did happen.
But because it was and is popular, its still in uses, as is and no-one will ever try to fix it. You liked it. maybe you could try to restore it to exactly what it was, faction placement wise and see what happens.

You would be amazed to learn what things can change in a system or at a station when you manipulate the BGS.
Simply going with the flow and not knowing why things change does make it easy to blame developers.
 
There is also some room in there from my perspective to point out what I see from my BGS perspective.

That is to say that a lot of exploits or good loops for trade, missions, massacres, etc..end up as destroyed very often because many cmdrs have no interest or idea about the BGS

It is important to use balance
and even though most of this type of exploit/loop depends on current factions status remaining the same, it does NOT create or keep balance.
There is always at least 1 faction that loses in this non balanced mission taking
it always means the same, the system or systems being exploited end up with factions changing places due to heavy vs not so heavy missions being done.

I know this all to well because this is where massacre missions go.
5 years of this loop/exploit existing with fdev being blind to it mostly.
And because I do the BGS and I had/have my own loops that never ended because I do the BGS and as such I make the effort to keep the factions where they are.
Yet having watched so many get nerfed by fdev because cmdrs would not stop or try to fix themselves.
And so many get destroyed because of system flipping, factions inf destroyed, changing positions and retreated faction that people ignore completely and curse fdev for nerfing what THEY themselves broke.

Most of the systems that are now owned by other pmf's in my area(once mine, thanks fdev) are this way now too because not one of those pmf's seems to understand or care about the local economy or how the BGS really works.
I spent years building a very good profitable BGS economy between all the factions in over 60 systems, main focus on 18 key systems, only to watch it slowly erode away because of lack of BGS knowledge.

If you have records of Robigo and what went on, as I also do, I was there too. You will see that what I am saying did happen.
But because it was and is popular, its still in uses, as is and no-one will ever try to fix it. You liked it. maybe you could try to restore it to exactly what it was, faction placement wise and see what happens.

You would be amazed to learn what things can change in a system or at a station when you manipulate the BGS.
Simply going with the flow and not knowing why things change does make it easy to blame developers.
I understand what you’re saying, and it’s true of the BGS- but that won’t kill a gameplay loop, those factions won’t up and disappear. The state may change and they did often. FDev nerfed the smuggling/ distance payout ratio for all smuggling missions, paying a few million to only a few thousand for 100+ LY runs. That’s what killed it, not the BGS.
 
Hehehehe... I too work the bgs. And without saying too much, smuggling is very lucrative.
As is hauling.
Now where you collect, and where you drop, that's key.
The smaller missions pay 1 to 3 million for a 30ly single hop.
Very inf heavy if you want it.
Mats too. Even on foot mats.
The longer distance ones I stack on my cutter, scan free of course...they pay 6 to 9 mill a pop and l can stack 5. Normally their in a cluster.
Hauling too pays well if the conditions are right. Regularly see haul 1000 gold or wotever for 50 mill just 2 or 3 jumps.
So smuggling ain't what it was clearly.
But my faction IS smuggling so it's what we do hehe.
GL out there

o7
 
One thing I decided one day whilst watching the mission board in a station that had shown me things I didn't know existed, as I was deciding to make this my home was a purpose.
In the beginning, besides learning to stay alive and be profitable in order to be able to buy and fly the ships I could not yet afford.
And I thought how easy it is to not know things in this game.
But I had just learned via tremendous rewards, that the mission board was trying to tell me something.
It was clearly telling me to explore. It was sending me 4 LY to 800 LY away for usually very high pay. Not always though.
Even 1 year later, now a multi-billionaire with enough ships to open a used ship lot. Still doing those types of missions.
Now, 8 years, I still do those missions.
As long as it has been sending me to places I've not yet been to, I tend to learn or see something new.
In all this I found more way to do everything, more way to make credits, more things to do. more friends, more enemies.
I decided that day, even though I have no need, I do these missions in hopes of seeing or learning new things.

The worst thing I think a person can do in this game is to stay still.

look at it this way.
Many cmdrs used/use Robigo
Many cmdrs do NOT use Robigo - the reasons are not always the same.

I did not use it for rank, or for mission rewards, I had/have no need to.

Same thing about massacres, I was not concerned about nerf or it changing.
For me though it is because I know I can re-create scenarios easily in this with the BGS.

Setting up a new better area for smuggling that has high pay and risk is doable. You use the BGS to create it, all you have to do is find the systems you want that you like.
I am sure many already exist and cmdrs just keep quiet about it.
I know this because as Dragsham just said, its what many of us do.

And, BTW, yes it can kill the loop, sooo many have gone just that way. fdev is usually blamed though.

Many of my friends were using my particular setup and they refused to do balanced missions.
So, I flipped the system and all the missions that remained sucked .
So, they all went away and left my systems alone.

Many months later, I restored it, and instantly back to what it once was.
 
I get what you’re saying, but Elite 1.3 is tough to compare BGS manipulation to today’s game state. Regardless, I remember reading the patch notes- smuggling mission payouts have been adjusted to be more in line with blah blah etc. etc.. it was an active FDev nerf. I’m sure it can still be lucrative with months of manipulation, but the luster is gone, and the games face has changed to make this story something plucked out of my glory days.
 
I remember Robigo runs fondly. As fondly as the OP. Although I didn't use board flipping - I'd dock, get what I could, and go. When I learned the board reset every 10 mins, I'd wait a little bit if the timing was right when I landed.

I remember being annoyed AF when it got nerfed. That said, I wasn't annoyed at Frontier as much as I was the people who found the exploit. Not the board flipping one, the one where people would stack the missions, abandon them, then just sell the slaves straight back in the commodities market making a killing, and getting more. Then coming on here and crowing about it.

Same thing happened with Smeaton.

And let's not forget the egg. Not content with LTDs being stupidly lucrative, making 500m an hour mining them normally wasn't enough, people had to find the SLF exploit to reset it and bring the hammer down because frankly making over a billion credits an hour is just SILLY.

So yep, its never nice when Frontier brings the hammer down on credit earning. But it's people taking advantage of exploits that drew the eye in the first place.
 
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