PvP The Big Ship Stigma.

[Electric Kite]

Ive been flying a Vette for a long time . And i have noticed some very interesting things.

1) Medium and small ship pilots love engaging big ship piots. Why? Simple:

If they loose " er meh gerd you only won because youre in a bigger ship im still good"

If they win.."er meh gerd you lost and youre in a BIGGER ship im soooo good!"

In short..either way they cant loose (excpet when they actually loose.)

2)The misconeptin that it takes less skill to fly a Big Ship.

This one both humours and annoys me at the sme time.
Like saying theres less skill in say..driving a Tank than a ford fiesta. Tell you what..you get a big ship, stick on 3 fixed PAs and turn FA off and YOU try hitting a fly in a black space.
Tell me how that goes.

3) The "I have a Big ship so i must be good" arguement.

I see a lot of low ranking Pilots,as low as expert and even Novice flying Cutters, Condas and Vettes.

These are, honestly, some of the worst Pilots i have ever encountered. And obviously they would be. They simply skipped the "getting good" part of the game in order to get the biggest ship.

There are some pilots in Shinrarta (not me) that attack and kill on site novice ownwers of HIgh tier ships like this and you know what?

Im ok with that.


Thoughts?

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Ive been flying a Vette for a long time . And i have noticed some very interesting things.

1) Medium and small ship pilots love engaging big ship pilots:

It's for the challenge, nothing more.

2)The misconeptin that it takes less skill to fly a Big Ship.
While it does take skill to throw a big ship around, especially with fixed weapons (I have a plasma build for the Conda I'm rather proud of), its far easier for a sub-par pilot to be competitive in a ship with a hilariously inflated healthpool, and a large number of powerful weapons. This is especially true when fighting a smaller ship, as they will likely run out of ammunition before you run out shields and armor.

3) The "I have a Big ship so i must be good" arguement.
There are many people in soft larges that they aren't ready for. Being in a ship of that level generally means people have been playing long enough to know how things work. At least, you think they would lol. Hard telling these days, as easy as money is to come by. I've encountered many poorly built larges who pick fights they can't handle.

Thoughts?

Plenty of good pilots fly large ships, but I feel medium ships are a better gauge of piloting ability, as they rely a bit more on maneuvering than straight-up tanking damage.

 

[Electric Kite]

Plenty of good pilots fly large ships, but I feel medium ships are a better gauge of piloting ability, as they rely a bit more on maneuvering than straight-up tanking damage.

Im going to have to disagree.

On the subject of maneuvering, i am constantly maneuvering, trying to get a bead on a much smaller target with fixed wepaons on a far less maneuverable ship.
Small ship pilots have one job - avoid the forward firing cone of a large ship. I could argue thats not that hard..especially when said ship moves like a brick.


Also..are people who captain say..big Ocean cruise ships less skilled pilots than people in Rubber Dingys?

 

[Electric Kite]

Also.. id like to mention Im awre that any idiot can just sit in a large ship and Tank Damage.

But for the sake of conversation and fairness..can we please acknowledge thats NOT how I fly my vette?

Thanks.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

It’s a Vette. Tanking is your primary way of staying alive.

Nothing wrong with that, and you can move around all you want to try and avoid fire, but good pilots are gonna land those shots.

Cause you’re huge.

 

[Electric Kite]

It’s a Vette. Tanking is your primary way of staying alive.

Nothing wrong with that, and you can move around all you want to try and avoid fire, but good pilots are gonna land those shots.

Cause you’re huge.

Oh I know..maneuvering to avoid fire in a vette is just silly..but maneuvering to land shots is not..

So i think its a trade off..much easier for smaller ships to land shots on big ships...much harder for bigger ships to land shots pon smaller ones. Both involve maneuvering.

It just irks me when people dismiss large ships as not needing skill to fly.

Its stupid.

 

[Krash]

Agreed. For me its not mutually exclusive. I fly all size ships. Viper/FDL/Vette/Cutter. I enjoy the different flight models. Using thrusters to evade in the Vette is much different than in the Viper; as it should be. I like to include a mix of weapon types as well: fixed, gimble and turrets. I'm always testing and experimenting.

As to your point, there is a perception that big ship pilots are incompetent and part of that is deserved when a big ship makes a pilot lazy in Solo: "behold how I swat these NPCs away like flies, ergo I'm a demi-god. Shall we go to Open and bask in our powers?" That story typically ends in the infamous youtube vids I tend to watch with a mixture of pity and amusement.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

1) Medium and small ship pilots love engaging big ship piots. Why? Simple:

If they loose " er meh gerd you only won because youre in a bigger ship im still good"[...]
Thoughts?

This reaction shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the game. Medium ships, particularly the FdL, are considered the best ships for PvP, so this shouldn't apply at all. This reaction is just making excuses.

2)The misconeptin that it takes less skill to fly a Big Ship.

Agreed 100% is is a misconception. It takes at least as much skill to wring the most utility out of a big 3. Greater need for FA-off, more awareness of sys pips due to being a huge target etc.

Sure big ships are marginally better at mowing down soft targets due to DPS but those sorts of tasks can be done by a decent pilot in any build.

3) The "I have a Big ship so i must be good" arguement.[...]attack and kill on site novice ownwers of HIgh tier ships

Yes, they often have trouble shedding their illusions especially when they are shown up badly from a smaller ship(s).

 

[Electric Kite]

[video=youtube;lR32csEPXd8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR32csEPXd8&t=304s[/video]

Also, heres a video of a Vette wrecking a smaller target with fixed weapons. Surely this can be recognised as skill??

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

I don’t know, man. I’ve just seen too many people who main larges jump into a medium and get absolutely stomped on without the safety of 5000+ hull and shields/banks

Maybe that’s part of why there’s a stigma.

Dont get me wrong, I love flying my Anaconda from time to time, but beating a medium ship with that thing hardly feels like an achievement for me.

 

[Speedcuffs]

If somebody's rank is low...
It doesn't mean anything.
You can have Elite rank and be useless.
You can have noob rank and be pretty good.

Combat rank is easy to get grind.

 

[Moriarte]

Thoughts?

Constant reverski and not much else to write home about. You should be able to obliterate ships like mine in 60 seconds by being proactive. Tough nut to crack either way. ) You fly the mighty corvette! Thanks for the fight, commander.

Peace

 

[Electric Kite]

Constant reverski and not much else to write home about. You should be able to obliterate ships like mine in 60 seconds by being proactive. Tough nut to crack either way. ) You fly the mighty corvette! Thanks for the fight, commander.

Peace

See: this is exactly what im talking about - if you win " youre in a vette, big deal" if you loose "haha you lost and your in a vette, "

"Constant reverski"? 1) Thats a straight up lie. 2) what were you doing that was anything to "write home about"? Frags at close range...wow..hard to miss..and you out turned a corvette..wow...so much skill..

Thanks for reiterating all ofthe OPs main points though.

 

[Krash]

See: this is exactly what im talking about - if you win " youre in a vette, big deal" if you loose "haha you lost and your in a vette, "

"Constant reverski"? 1) Thats a straight up lie. 2) what were you doing that was anything to "write home about"? Frags at close range...wow..hard to miss..and you out turned a corvette..wow...so much skill..

Thanks for reiterating all ofthe OPs main points though.

Classic catch-22, "you cant win for losin" scenario. I fly the vette for my own reasons and dont care what anyone else thinks about my tactics or choices. The big ships should be like tanks and be more difficult to take out than anything else. The only thing that should surprise us is when they go down easy.

 

[Electric Kite]

Classic catch-22, "you cant win for losin" scenario. I fly the vette for my own reasons and dont care what anyone else thinks about my tactics or choices. The big ships should be like tanks and be more difficult to take out than anything else. The only thing that should surprise us is when they go down easy.

Its so true.

And you know what, i think ill just stop caring from now on also.

 

[Oopsie Daisy]

Lol, "loose".

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

Also, heres a video of a Vette wrecking a smaller target with fixed weapons. Surely this can be recognised as skill??

How can you call that skill?
First of all, no offense to the guy in the Krait but his piloting skills are pretty terrible.
Second, you have probably 5 times the amount of shields and hull that, that Krait has.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but this is some pretty low tier stuff right here.
If you were to fight someone like CKnarf in his FAS, I'm 100% positive that he would wipe the floor with you.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

It was mostly reverski too, ftr.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

See here the thing right.

Big ships have firepower yes, they do take a modicum of skill to fly BUT.

They literally only survive through pure hitpoint overinflation. Not to say a big ship shouldnt be very much tougher to kill, but its past the point of being reasonable now and is just ridiculous, hence the stigma of big ship pilots mostly only surviving because they have the HP to drain all the ammo out of most ships. Thats it. They can't outturn a medium/small, they can't outdrag them, they can't out ToT them (Hence very much less actual DPS) and they can leave freely more or less whenever they like with little to no risk.

They are easier to fly, not that it requires no skill whatsoever, but trust me, your big shiny corvette is WAY easier to get results out of than ANY small ship in PvP.


I pick fights with big ships in small ships for the exact reasons youve stated. If I get killed by a vette when im in an eagle, its no skin off my nose, its got 900 hull. Regardless of which way you cut it, the big ship pilot cannot clai to be good for killing a 900 hull ship.
Whereas if I make the big ship run.. (VERY VERY rare) Then I know that I earned the win.

It's less about wanting to push out an "I'm so skilled" attitude though, more one revolving around there simply being more satisfaction around beating targets very much stronger than the ship you are in.
It gives you an idea of how much you have improved, and gives you a good opportunity to learn better positioning against a target that can still hurt you badly, but is'nt causing the relative velocities to reach stupid levels, hence resulting in easier going and more time to think about what youre doing. Thus further drilling muscle memory into yourself.
One thing against a lot of medium ships and especially against the small ones is that you are under duress to move as much as possible meaning you get time to react, and much less to plan.
Fighting big ships gives youa litte more space to learn things if you need to. Then those same skills can be further tuned against truly competative vessels.

 

[Electric Kite]

How can you call that skill?
First of all, no offense to the guy in the Krait but his piloting skills are pretty terrible.
Second, you have probably 5 times the amount of shields and hull that, that Krait has.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but this is some pretty low tier stuff right here.
If you were to fight someone like CKnarf in his FAS, I'm 100% positive that he would wipe the floor with you.

And im sorry touburst YOUR bubble but im not about to take any criticism from a guy called "Sir Ganksalot" seriously. (No need to guess how you choose to use your "skills")
Secondly..what youre saying is the sort of thing i hear time and time again and it all feeds into the OP.

The whole arguemnt of "youre in a more powerfull ship" is so lame and so easy to make its laughable,
There are literally, LITERLALY hundreds of videos of large ships getting mauled by smaller ones. The consensus? "Oh bravo little pilot and SHAME on you big pilot.!"
But if anyone shows a video of the reverse..its "OH SHAME on you anyway..and that guy in the smaller ship must have been a bad pilot regardless.!"

Its laughable.

As the OP states..big ship pilots cant win.

Cheers for posting anyway though and reinforcing all the OPs points.

o7