General / Off-Topic The British referendum on membership in Europe, June 2016

Well hopefully the result of this won't be determined by how many random documents the voters ship from one place to another!

(I know I'm going to regret saying that)
 
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Expect over the next 12 months, a love fest from the UK ruling classes toward the EU.

Still, this will probably turn out to be one of the more interesting threads here.
 
Expect over the next 12 months, a love fest from the UK ruling classes toward the EU.

Still, this will probably turn out to be one of the more interesting threads here.

Don't bank on it.
And I bet we will all be totally sick of the subject by next year.
 
good timing! you brits are aware that eu is crumbling already, right?

I do not see the British to be under the domination of the couple Franco / German without of substantial compensation and still even with that, it's really not sure
 
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It would not matter if 99.9% of the UK voting population voted to leave Europe, the Government would fake or rig the results to show the majority want to stay in Europe.

I still get angry that only 36% of the population voted for the Conservatives and yet that's who won a "majority" vote.
 
Perhaps we could have another Scottish Independence referendum at the same time. It's inevitable, so let's get it over with all in one go!
 
good timing! you brits are aware that eu is crumbling already, right?

The EU will survive because its purpose is ultimately, to prevent war.

Europe can be thought of as an unruly class. There are all the usual characters, Dutch, Danish, Swede, Italian and so on. And there are four characters.

England. The smartest who comes up with many of the really great ideas. But England is lazy and rests on its laurels. It isn't a team player which irks everyone else. Needless to say, it isn't the most popular kid in class.

France. She is the girl who's grown up a bit quicker than most. Hence she is very popular among the boys and girls. She rarely needs to pay for anything, always has a date. But she isn't very bright and can't quite figure out why being pretty isn't good enough.

Germany. This chap starts his day by laying out his collection of pencils in a percise order. All straight. The tops, an exact distance from the edge of the desk. He gets very impatient with anyone who alters his arrangements. Needless to say, he doesn't do a lot of work simply because he doesn't have any space left on his desk.

Russia. He's the biggest guy in class. He's lumbering and not very bright. He rarely notices when England makes a smart mouthed remark. But when he does, he gets really angry.

Then there's America. The kid who's parents moved to another part of town. But he comes back when he can because he doesn't have any friends in his new place and isn't likely to win any any time soon.

Eventually though, children do grow up.
 
It would not matter if 99.9% of the UK voting population voted to leave Europe, the Government would fake or rig the results to show the majority want to stay in Europe.

I still get angry that only 36% of the population voted for the Conservatives and yet that's who won a "majority" vote.

+1 rep, its how I felt about the whole voting thing for a long long time. Surely democracy was one person one vote with 64% of the vote either not voting for or against a party that gets in on a majority is not very democratic. Maybe we need a revolution to shake them all up a bit.
 
+1 rep, its how I felt about the whole voting thing for a long long time. Surely democracy was one person one vote with 64% of the vote either not voting for or against a party that gets in on a majority is not very democratic. Maybe we need a revolution to shake them all up a bit.

No, the only way that would work is with a national list, such as is used in Israel. The problem is it invariably ends up with governemtns being dominated by minority partys which represent almost no-one.

A referendum of that kind would be based upon a simple majority of the entire country. The problem is, as was seen in the Scots referendum last year, a few last minute promises of the world can swing the whole thing.
 
It would not matter if 99.9% of the UK voting population voted to leave Europe, the Government would fake or rig the results to show the majority want to stay in Europe.

I still get angry that only 36% of the population voted for the Conservatives and yet that's who won a "majority" vote.

+1 rep, its how I felt about the whole voting thing for a long long time. Surely democracy was one person one vote with 64% of the vote either not voting for or against a party that gets in on a majority is not very democratic. Maybe we need a revolution to shake them all up a bit.

No, the only way that would work is with a national list, such as is used in Israel. The problem is it invariably ends up with governemtns being dominated by minority partys which represent almost no-one.

A referendum of that kind would be based upon a simple majority of the entire country. The problem is, as was seen in the Scots referendum last year, a few last minute promises of the world can swing the whole thing.
Good points all.

May I direct you here....

here's a proposal for an alternative to the current "first past the post" (FPTP) voting system used for electing MP's and hence forming governments in the UK parliament.
.
I'd like some feed back on it, potential flaws and problems.
<snip>
.
And ask for your comments.
 
The EU will survive because its purpose is ultimately, to prevent war.

yeah, pax europaea. you bet :)

that's pretty naive, and contradicted by the single fact that eu has been actively involved in most wars up to now. take a look at ucraine, no less, our most recent creation is a full scale civil war fueled directly by eu, us and russia.

you could argue that one of its goals is to prevent war between member states, but this has pretty much flown out of the window with the recent developments around greece, which have clarified (redefined for many) what being a member state means in terms of cohesion: not much, given the right economic incentive.

it's purpose was ultimately to provide a stable market for german industry, and this has worked for some time. then again no stable market can survive financial mayhem on the scale we have witnessed on the last decades. the resolution of this mess is very likely to involve war, as it always has. and i'd say it has already begun.

uk on the other hand has always played both cards, us and eu. its position as a surrogate of us financial economy has never been questioned, its participation in eu a matter of circumstantial interests which never enjoyed any broad consensus. this referendum now seems to imply that these interests are no longer relevant.
 
You'd need compulsory voting!

1st problem for the Tories; compulsory voting would have to also mean, compulsory registration. A thing called 'the poll tax' made it financially viable not to register. Tories not bothered by this, as those who were against paying the poll tax, voted for the other parties. Compulsory voting, is not good for Tories.

This EU vote ASAP thing, is due to a few things. They are basically in control, Mr OB from the US said we should stay in the EU and explained why, that alone, will put the stay vote up, by a readable percentage. Plus, much longer and Greece will go completely belly up. Dave, will use the same basic tactics as Scotland, fear, and more fear. He will claim or make us believe, leaving the EU is the same as leaving NATO. He will make claims of what He will get for the UK etc etc and unfortunately; he will get what he wants. That said, as a trade partner, the UK would be stupid to leave the EU.
 
yeah, pax europaea. you bet :)

that's pretty naive, and contradicted by the single fact that eu has been actively involved in most wars up to now.

Sorry to say but these are not really important in the greeater scheme of things. America isn't really that important either frankly.

What matters is war involving England, France, Germany and Russia.

Because when they go to war, everyone suffers, all over the world.

WW1 and 2 were just the two biggest. Throughout the 18th and 19th centurys, there were wars initiated by these powers taking place repeatedly.

The EU, by mutually removing barriers to trade, money, labour has made future war between three of these powers, pointless. True, Russia is left out, but with a permanent alliance, enforced between the other three, it is unlikely Russia would risk war and this is exactly how things have worked out.
 
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