The case for frontier to be less frontierish (or is space legs elite 2?)

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Was just thinking over a ciggy that it was strange that frontier have put elite in hybernation for 2 years.. yet its been announced that a development work is underway and will be coming in the distant future.

Having a team of 100 (tm) work on a project for that long in anyones measure would be a significant expense, and it seems initially strange that frontier are willing to let the base game freeze and fester in the meantime.. to maximize the chances of more sales, wouldn't it be in their interest to actually keep the game going, more so than it is, so that there's a greater audience for this large work when the time comes? A small roadmap of even one content patch per year could make all the difference...

But then some far more interesting speculation became clear.. maybe frontier, as they sometimes do, did account for this and did it and made a conscious decision. Some random ideas:

• 2 years is how long frontier takes to develop a new release. Are frontier planning what's next to be closer to elite 2 than horizons 2? That could be exciting.
• Maybe they're waiting to see how many people are still playing next year to decide how to sell it, but id still image frontier would want a full price for that much work, not just an expansion for a base game with years of baggage for basically all its old content.
• Elite 2 could enough to pull back all the people who quit so it doesn't matter if people fall off now.
• That could explain why frontier have been so quiet for years, and so inflexible when its come to beyond.
• We better get a graphics upgrade if its going to be a new title. A repackaged elite would be sad.
• I hope it doesn't end up like what eve did with their first person addon experiment on consoles.
• Adding their park builder cobra engine dna into elite sounds really far fetched and could be the great unknown. Or it could be completely different and turn out like the x games? No idea, but why would they not use what they already have?
• If the 100 strong team thing is just something that the community has held onto and its not like that anymore and they're all working on jwe2 or disney coaster well the point is moot.

Anyway.. just because frontier are a little dismaying with what they did to exploration, maybe there is method to the madness, as there has been in the past. Or frontier are not the same frontier as they used to be and they might be interested in patching the leaks before the dlc. Made for a good daydream at least.

EDIT: Bonus speculation point for why space legs might be elite 2:

- To cut the cord with the older consoles. Anyone who plays on ps4 pro knows how barely okay the framerate is, and frontier with their only one set of assets might be wanting to keep the game visually competitive as a service, but are being prevented from doing so by the old consoles. Keeping the new era only running on the new era of console hardware would be a neat way to allow the game to keep evolving

 

[Crank Larson]

Last time I checked the game is still going... Did you have anything else in that ciggy? We are still getting updates every few months (so no hibernation).

The world these days is impatient. Developing things that are worthwhile takes time.

 

[Lightspeed]

Freeze and fester? Are you out in deep space ..... or your refrigerator ?

Unfortunately, you've kicked this thread off with the wrong premise ... the game's not been left for dead while they develop it further.

 

[Worminator71]

The world these days is impatient. Developing things that are worthwhile takes time.

Completely agree, I see so many times in other Elite groups on social media about... I want it now... fix the game... how do I get everything quickly and easily...

Patience... not many folk know what it is!

 

[Old Duck]

Freeze and fester? Are you out in deep space ..... or your refrigerator ?

It's just the opposite - Frontier unplugged the refrigerator and has allowed everything to settle to room temperature. The result is bugs - lots and lots and lots of bugs!!!

 

[avow555]

My thought is we will be getting sold Elite 5 next year for 40quid.
No more freebies for backers.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Was just thinking over a ciggy that it was strange that frontier have put elite in hybernation for 2 years.. yet its been announced that a development work is underway and will be coming in the distant future.

So continues development is now called hibernation. It's either in development or its not, what is it?

Having a team of 100 (tm) work on a project for that long in anyones measure would be a significant expense, and it seems initially strange that frontier are willing to let the base game freeze and fester in the meantime.. to maximize the chances of more sales, wouldn't it be in their interest to actually keep the game going, more so than it is, so that there's a greater audience for this large work when the time comes? A small roadmap of even one content patch per year could make all the difference...

So getting new releases every 3-4 is now being called freeze and fester? Thats a new one on me.

But then some far more interesting speculation became clear.. maybe frontier, as they sometimes do, did account for this and did it and made a conscious decision. Some random ideas:

2 years is how long frontier takes to develop a new release. Are frontier planning what's next to be closer to elite 2 than horizons 2? That could be exciting.

They have said it will be an expansion for ED. It will not be ED2 and neither do I want ED2.

Maybe they're waiting to see how many people are still playing next year to decide how to sell it, but id still image frontier would want a full price for that much work, not just an expansion for a base game with years of baggage for basically all its old content.

As they are releasing updates every 3-4 months I would be suprised if player numbers were significantly down.

Elite 2 could enough to pull back all the people who quit so it doesn't matter if people fall off now.

Not it wouldn't. Talk to the LEP owners how they would feel.

That could explain why frontier have been so quiet for years, and so inflexible when its come to beyond.

Inflexible?

We better get a graphics upgrade if its going to be a new title. A repackaged elite would be sad.

It won't be a new title as they have already said this. Graphics seem pretty damn good as far as I am concerned.

I hope it doesn't end up like what eve did with their first person addon experiment on consoles.

I would be surprised if FDev made the same big mistake that EVE did.

Adding their park builder cobra engine dna into elite sounds really far fetched and could be the great unknown. Or it could be completely different and turn out like the x games? No idea, but why would they not use what they already have?

I don't know. It may not be very compatible. The games are vastly different.

If the 100 strong team thing is just something that the community has held onto and its not like that anymore and they're all working on jwe2 or disney coaster well the point is moot.

No they are not. Some of the team will be working on the updates leading up to the next big expansion. There is a dedicated planetary surface team, and then there is the rest.

Anyway.. just because frontier are a little dismaying with what they did to exploration, maybe there is method to the madness, as there has been in the past. Or frontier are not the same frontier as they used to be and they might be interested in patching the leaks before the dlc. Made for a good daydream at least.

Exploration is in the best place its ever been. Sure there could be refinements, but its a damn site better then before.

 

[dm06]

... why don't we have "dislike" button on the forum when we need it?..

 

[Sylow]

I would be surprised if FDev made the same big mistake that EVE did.

Yet that's my main worries on space legs: if that's the actual thing for next year, we might end up with more space to go to, now by foot, with little reason to ever go there. It might be just me, but at least in my eyes we don't need even more space in this game, but rather more content.

Time will tell how this turns out, but if space legs is the next big thing, then this unfortunately seems to be the most likely scenario to me.

And yes, i am perfectly happy if my commander stays in his chair forever. I play this game for flying spaceships, not for walking to a virtual coffee machine and also not to be able to switch to a mediocre first person shooter. The FPS genre is crowded with different titles, and some of them are actually quite good. Some developers have many years of FPS development history, over many titles. It's quite unlikely that FD can stand up to that on first try, while it still being merely an extension of the main game.

 

[Crank Larson]

My thought is we will be getting sold Elite 5 next year for 40quid.
No more freebies for backers.

Fortunately, that thought only exists in your head. Well, apart from the copy you've sent over here, but I'd advise no-one to lend any credence to such thoughts.

 

[Crank Larson]

... why don't we have "dislike" button on the forum when we need it?..

There used to be one. Guess what? It was abused. Shocking... Dislike buttons are not a good idea in most scenarios. This forum is not one of the exceptions.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Was just thinking over a ciggy that it was strange that frontier have put elite in hybernation for 2 years.. yet its been announced that a development work is underway and will be coming in the distant future.

Having a team of 100 (tm) work on a project for that long in anyones measure would be a significant expense, and it seems initially strange that frontier are willing to let the base game freeze and fester in the meantime.. to maximize the chances of more sales, wouldn't it be in their interest to actually keep the game going, more so than it is, so that there's a greater audience for this large work when the time comes? A small roadmap of even one content patch per year could make all the difference...

But then some far more interesting speculation became clear.. maybe frontier, as they sometimes do, did account for this and did it and made a conscious decision. Some random ideas:

• 2 years is how long frontier takes to develop a new release. Are frontier planning what's next to be closer to elite 2 than horizons 2? That could be exciting.
• Maybe they're waiting to see how many people are still playing next year to decide how to sell it, but id still image frontier would want a full price for that much work, not just an expansion for a base game with years of baggage for basically all its old content.
• Elite 2 could enough to pull back all the people who quit so it doesn't matter if people fall off now.
• That could explain why frontier have been so quiet for years, and so inflexible when its come to beyond.
• We better get a graphics upgrade if its going to be a new title. A repackaged elite would be sad.
• I hope it doesn't end up like what eve did with their first person addon experiment on consoles.
• Adding their park builder cobra engine dna into elite sounds really far fetched and could be the great unknown. Or it could be completely different and turn out like the x games? No idea, but why would they not use what they already have?
• If the 100 strong team thing is just something that the community has held onto and its not like that anymore and they're all working on jwe2 or disney coaster well the point is moot.

Anyway.. just because frontier are a little dismaying with what they did to exploration, maybe there is method to the madness, as there has been in the past. Or frontier are not the same frontier as they used to be and they might be interested in patching the leaks before the dlc. Made for a good daydream at least.

I've already asked this myself and I've found the answer preatty easy and clear.

With Horizons FDEV used the Season release model. So release pieces of a big updated little by little for 2 years.
Players hated this and the salt was flowing like water.

Braben concluded that the Season approach was not a good choice and he confirmed he would only release completed contents where these require money to be purchased.

So here we are. Instead of having a new Season we just have to wait when everything is ready

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yet that's my main worries on space legs: if that's the actual thing for next year, we might end up with more space to go to, now by foot, with little reason to ever go there. It might be just me, but at least in my eyes we don't need even more space in this game, but rather more content.

It's one of my fears too. But at least DBOBE said that they could do legs pretty easily but it's the gameplay that takes time.

Time will tell how this turns out, but if space legs is the next big thing, then this unfortunately seems to be the most likely scenario to me.

I expect more then a walking simulator due to DBOBE's comments. So hopefully it won't be like that.

And yes, i am perfectly happy if my commander stays in his chair forever. I play this game for flying spaceships, not for walking to a virtual coffee machine and also not to be able to switch to a mediocre first person shooter. The FPS genre is crowded with different titles, and some of them are actually quite good. Some developers have many years of FPS development history, over many titles. It's quite unlikely that FD can stand up to that on first try, while it still being merely an extension of the main game.

I am also happy to stay in my seat, but I would like other environments and different perspectives to explore this huge galaxy in. Also I hope that it is First Person Perspective gameplay and not just a First Person Shooter. I doubt it will be anything like a dedicated first person shooter either. It should be integrated into the main game in a good and meaningful way. I also suspect that flying your ship would still be 60-100% of the game with space legs taking up 0-40% of the game all dependent on what you are doing and how you want to go about it.

Thats my hope anyway.

 

[B1rdy]

I've already asked this myself and I've found the answer preatty easy and clear.

With Horizons FDEV used the Season release model. So release pieces of a big updated little by little for 2 years.
Players hated this and the salt was flowing like water.

Braben concluded that the Season approach was not a good choice and he confirmed he would only release completed contents where these require money to be purchased.

So here we are. Instead of having a new Season we just have to wait when everything is ready

This make it sounds like the players are at fault, but that is not entirely true. FDev themselves missed their goals. The time frame was being stretched by 100% and the content delivered lacked functionality, was incomplete, bugged or poorly designed.

Exploration is in the best place its ever been. Sure there could be refinements, but its a damn site better then before.

Of course, it would have been harder to make the initial design worse. But it mainly "remains things to look at" but now with a bit more fiddling.

@OP: How clever and probable do you think it would be, that FDev announced a completely new game? It would be against all prior communication, all prior time schedules and would leave E: D as an unfinished, bugged game behind. How many trust would be earned that way?

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

This make it sounds like the players are at fault, but that is not entirely true. FDev themselves missed their goals. The time frame was being stretched by 100% and the content delivered lacked functionality, was incomplete, bugged or poorly designed.

I agree, Horizons problems were somewhere else. Unfortunately Braben came to that conclusion only...

 

[StuartGT]

hybernation

freeze

Elite Dangerous isn't in hibernation, nor was freezed.

The latest update for Elite Dangerous was in April, and it has received two follow-up patches since. The next update is expected late-July/August, and another at the end of the year.

wouldn't it be in their interest to actually keep the game going, more so than it is, so that there's a greater audience for this large work when the time comes? A small roadmap of even one content patch per year could make all the difference...

See above - FDev already gave us the roadmap for this year.

Every 3-4 months a small update arrives. The first two (April; July/August) will contain improvements to QoL and New Player Experience, while the third (expected November/December) will add new content and features too.

 

[CMDR-ss47ply]

after years of playing the X seris of games well I still do but I found this gem and got hooked. Im not your normal gamer I dont fly around trying to kill everything in fact on my pc account I have not one single kill nor have I fired a shot. If space legs come and I hope it does I hope Fdev can resist the temptation of making it a shooter mode, what I wsh for is to beable to float to the cargo bay and fix the broken hatch where the piriate tried to get in. to be able to eva to inspect for damage while out exploring and when Im out on a low g planet it want to bounce and stumble while taking samples. Elite has always been a differant game its not for the fast paced shooter bunch you have to think to be good. not just have the best mouse or gpu. thats what I love about this game. Yes please make some changes yes add new features but please dont stop being Elite "Make Being Elite Great Again" o7 fly safe

 

[StuartGT]

My thought is we will be getting sold Elite 5 next year for 40quid.
No more freebies for backers.

Lifetime Expansion Pass holders will receive next year's New Era paid-for update at no cost. It is also an update to the current game.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

This make it sounds like the players are at fault, but that is not entirely true. FDev themselves missed their goals. The time frame was being stretched by 100% and the content delivered lacked functionality, was incomplete, bugged or poorly designed.

The main issue for me with horizons was that the updates should have been dedicated to planetary gameplay. You buy horizons which is planetary landings and then the updates to horizons had virtually nothing to do with the planets. All they did was make lots of small updates that could have been so much more.

Of course, it would have been harder to make the initial design worse. But it mainly "remains things to look at" but now with a bit more fiddling.

Well yes. At least the more fiddling stuff I find more fun and interesting. But I agree that there needs to be more to do in exploration such as samples, mission objectives and so on. I would also be happy with different modules for different things you can do when exploring like a soil analyser or a bio scanner and so on, basically give us more options to roleplay with. [/QUOTE]

 

[Sylow]

The main issue for me with horizons was that the updates should have been dedicated to planetary gameplay. You buy horizons which is planetary landings and then the updates to horizons had virtually nothing to do with the planets. All they did was make lots of small updates that could have been so much more.

/sign

Aye. Horizon could've been so much more. I was very much looking forward to it. But it turned out that planets are only there to put engineering bases on them and to dig out some engineering materials.

Mind you, i even after a while started to enjoy the SRV. I found it terrible to drive at the start. But then i realized that i drove it like a car on a paved road and remembered my tank driver training from the army time. And while the SRV drives nothing like a tank, i had to find that a number of guidelines they drilled into me for off-road driving actually also work well on the SRV. (It's mostly much more throttle-work than in a car. )

So driving the SRV can even be enjoyable. I just wish there'd be more and reasons to also do that. I am aware that planets are big and there's many of them, so filling them to the brim with things to find is impossible. But a few more things to find would already go a long way. Before the scanner upgrades, i still had the hopes that there's plenty which we just haven't found yet. (Despite data-miners regularily "discovering" things in record time after a patch, sometimes even before the game servers are running again. )

Now we have better tools to find things, which unfortunately also shows how little variety there really is. So if i was given the choice between walking around inside my ship and some station, or having more things to find out there, be it in space or on planets, i'd definitely go for the second option.