The combat focus of the game

[Valorin]

Lately, well, actually the last two years, when I think about it, most new toys that have been added to the game have been combat focused. There have been a lot of quality of life upgrades as well and general game polishing, but the toys have been guns and things that are for using guns. Yes, there have been limpets, but that's about it.

There is multicrew, which also can be used for scanning and sightseeing, but since there are no other functions in place, the main function seems to be the gunner job, which also comes with a pretty arcade-style view around the ship (arcade and Elite in one sentence makes me cringe, actually).

The game has ship launched fighters, even three different kinds with different loadouts. The same mechanic could be used to add scientific drones to do other things than fighting, remote mining drones, collector drones for grabbing stuff without limpets or cargo scooping. I would have loved to have ship launched vessels, including a fighter, not restricted to.

Engineers gave us the ability to mod our ships, but as far as I know experimental effects have only been for weapons (which changes with 3.0, I think, which is lovely).

The return of the Thargoid gave us a scanner, research limpets (which give us samples which don't really have a use right now) and a shutdown field neutralizer, and apart from that lots of anti thargoid weaponry. Since the Thargoid stuff is still going on, that hopefully changes. At the moment though it doesn't look like that.

When thinking back to the Frontier Expo, the new Guardian tech shown also was guns. I am pretty sure we only saw a sneak peek to make us drool, but I didn't. Alien tech guns look cool, but in Elite I really have no use for them. I love the idea of getting my hands on Guardian hybrid tech for my endeavors at the ruins, but if that will be guns only, I really don't have an incentive (I'd play the content for sure, but the guns would go on the pile I guess).

The tech brokers in the beta also only had experimental weapons. What about some specials for scanners, fuel scoops, thrusters that are especially useful in high G environments, heat sink launchers that also include a system helping with managing heat in general, or something that makes us stay longer in Silent Running mode without overheating... Actually, everything else than guns would be welcome and I really hope that's coming.

I love the T10 (yes, I know, that's discussable), but it's a combat ship again. For 3.0 the featured ship, the Chieftain, is also a combat ship. It's an awesome design, and pretty useful for players who love to fight, but again, combat.


Of course, there will be the new looks for planets, which is actually what I look forward to most in 3.0, and more stuff for exploration and mining has been announced, but I really hope that won't just be a few focused updates and then back to guns. I hope it will also mark a point where the game gets more and more toys dedicated to other roles than combat ones.

What makes Elite unique is the galaxy simulation based on astronomical data, on science (hearing that so often, it starts to sound silly), It's the game's most advertised feature and an accomplishment itself in my oppinion. I am a bit sad that so far not much is done with it, and I don't mean work on celestial bodies and planet surfaces and all, but actual gameplay. ED has the most scientifically correct suns, and planets, and whatsnot in the most correct simulation of our galaxy for a game to date, but instead of more interaction with it, there's more and more ways of interacting with other ships. Via guns.

TL;DR: Many, many, many (and more) games do the gun-thing. Elite gives us a brilliant galaxy simulation based on science and then also does the gun-thing a lot. I'd love to see this changing. The Elite gun lobby has enough toys by now. Time for more science.

 

[Majic-12]

In A.D. 3304

War was beginning.

 

[Bryan K]

That’s what the Q4 update is for.

 

[NW3]

Elite gives us a brilliant galaxy simulation based on science and then also does the gun-thing a lot. I'd love to see this changing. The Elite gun lobby has enough toys by now. Time for more science.

Agreed. I'll like to see more non-combat improvements too.

 

[avow555]

Agreed. I'll like to see more non-combat improvements too.

Yep, ditto

 

[Valorin]

That’s what the Q4 update is for.

Yes. And I am looking forward to that. But the point is, that I'd love the game to continue like that. I can't wait to see the changes to exploration, and also mining, though so far I don't mine. My hope is, that those changes will just mark a beginning of more science focused development, and that it won't go back to gun focus afterwards.
The ship launched fighters mechanics is a good example for that. It's already in place, and theoretically could launch any kind of spaceborne vessel. If we had some more mechanics like taking samples from surfaces, or whatever, in place, a remotely controled drone to help with those things would be awesome. Imagine materials that can only be found in deeper ridges and canyons on planets, and steering a collector drone down into difficult terrain where an SRV would have problems. Stuff like that.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yes. And I am looking forward to that. But the point is, that I'd love the game to continue like that. I can't wait to see the changes to exploration, and also mining, though so far I don't mine. My hope is, that those changes will just mark a beginning of more science focused development, and that it won't go back to gun focus afterwards.
The ship launched fighters mechanics is a good example for that. It's already in place, and theoretically could launch any kind of spaceborne vessel. If we had some more mechanics like taking samples from surfaces, or whatever, in place, a remotely controled drone to help with those things would be awesome. Imagine materials that can only be found in deeper ridges and canyons on planets, and steering a collector drone down into difficult terrain where an SRV would have problems. Stuff like that.

Agreed. Hopefully the new Q4 update will be good for that and the new paid for DLC.

 

[John Xenir]

Me too. There's a reason why I'm elite in trading, pioneer in exploration, and mostly harmless in combat

 

[Imo]

That's what the ELITE game has ever been. Back in the classic ELITE days there was only one rank to grind, the combat rank. Everything else you did in the game was only to improve your abilities to gain the combat rank ELITE.

 

[Wyaston Hypatia]

That’s what the Q4 update is for.

It's really about what is the philosophy that's driving the game design, not what's in a specific update.
Are FD wanting to make a combat game with some non-combat extras added for background flavour, or are they making a well rounded game offering equal levels of gameplay to non-combat?
I wish it's the latter, so far it appears to be the former. My hope is that through this year we will see that the focus has changed, that by the end of Q4 game roles will be more even, and most importantly that there will be continued equal development into 2019 and further.
There is a need for a balanced game, with shooting and fighting being only one of many actives suplied by a game that treats all activities equally.

 

[Sylveria]

That's what the ELITE game has ever been. Back in the classic ELITE days there was only one rank to grind, the combat rank. Everything else you did in the game was only to improve your abilities to gain the combat rank ELITE.

Except- we're not in 1984 anymore, and Elite has grown up to be much more than just combat. Following the same logic, I suppose we could also say since the original game was single player we should just dump the multiplayer aspects completely too, right? Oh wait, that's not quite what you were leading at, was it?

I'd also love to see non-combat activities given more focus in ED.

Pew-pew QQ has had its day- now it's time for FD to bring more depth to the game. Squeaky wheel has gotten plenty of grease over the last 3-4 years with many "balance" changes, items being introduced, etc.

 

[Brrokk]

I agree completely with OP.

 

[gooddoc]

Sadly that's the way the game industry works....pewpew sells units!

The more stuff the industry can put in a game, for players to blow each other up with, the more sales they're likely to get.

Elite is no different. I outgrew the 'if it moves, blast it!' phase many years ago. I play ED to relax & enjoy the non-combat things that the game offers.
There is a good deal of stuff in ED that Iv not tried & never will, 'cos it's too pewpew for me - like multicrew, CQC, PvP, I don't do PP & very rarely play in Open mode.

That's the good thing about ED, you can wander off & do your own thing, while leaving the pewpew behind.
Though one thing Iv noticed since the very first updates, that every update has been mainly for the 'pewpew brigade' with little on offer for the rest of us - Horizon's was probably the only addition that benefitted us non-pewpewer's.
The devs keep telling us it's on it's way, but we still only see a trickle of stuff coming through for the less aggressive players that still enjoy this marvelous game!

 

[znôrt]

TL;DR: Many, many, many (and more) games do the gun-thing. Elite gives us a brilliant galaxy simulation based on science and then also does the gun-thing a lot. I'd love to see this changing. The Elite gun lobby has enough toys by now. Time for more science.

agreed.

as a fan of conflict and combat (only virtual, as a game, mind you), way too much energy has been wasted in a crippled, pointless and daft combat setting in the game. it showed some promise at first: even with the failed network implementation, the core ideas were sound: skill and compromise: heat, energy, shield or hull, flying skill, speed and range, ship character. it was plausible, even good. 3 years of recklessly ignoring the network problem brought along instead ridiculous shield buffing, arcadish magic spells in the age of space conquest and total loss of ship character.

well, that ship has long sailed. and if combat it can't be, then by all means find some sense to this game, make it about science.

 

[gooddoc]

Me too. There's a reason why I'm elite in trading, pioneer in exploration, and mostly harmless in combat

I'm Elite in Exploration & Trading but Mostly Harmless in Combat, I'v only gained that rank through shooting rocks on planets!

 

[Valorin]

Sadly that's the way the game industry works....pewpew sells units!

The more stuff the industry can put in a game, for players to blow each other up with, the more sales they're likely to get.

Elite is no different. I outgrew the 'if it moves, blast it!' phase many years ago. I play ED to relax & enjoy the non-combat things that the game offers.
There is a good deal of stuff in ED that Iv not tried & never will, 'cos it's too pewpew for me - like multicrew, CQC, PvP, I don't do PP & very rarely play in Open mode.

That's the good thing about ED, you can wander off & do your own thing, while leaving the pewpew behind.
Though one thing Iv noticed since the very first updates, that every update has been mainly for the 'pewpew brigade' with little on offer for the rest of us - Horizon's was probably the only addition that benefitted us non-pewpewer's.
The devs keep telling us it's on it's way, but we still only see a trickle of stuff coming through for the less aggressive players that still enjoy this marvelous game!

Yeah. Though I think there are lots and lots of players who play for the same reason as you do. Me for example, and many others. The science behind it, is what makes the game unique. It's on Frontier to change course of their game, or not.

That's what the ELITE game has ever been. Back in the classic ELITE days there was only one rank to grind, the combat rank. Everything else you did in the game was only to improve your abilities to gain the combat rank ELITE.

I guess you never played Frontier or First Encounters. But actually, at the moment you seem to be more right than wrong concerning ED at least. It's actually on Fdev to decide if it stays this way beyond Beyond (yeah, pun...) or if the changes in Q4 are only kind of a treat.

 

[Mohrgan]

I am, without a doubt, a combat focused Commander. Just the opposite of most of the posters in this thread up until now, I'm elite in combat, and whatever in the other two. But, I can see your point. It would serve the game very well if FD could/would flesh out the process of exploration, and highlight the science involved in the galaxy.

In RL, I am an avid science reader, especially on cosmology. If the Exploration process, or game play, were more 'sciencey', that part of the game would interest me more. My 'pathfinder' rank would be higher if I could be more involved in the act of exploration, rather than just pointing my ship at stuffs. I believe FD have every intention of giving that to us. They just need the encouragement to do so.

 

[Valorin]

I am, without a doubt, a combat focused Commander. Just the opposite of most of the posters in this thread up until now, I'm elite in combat, and whatever in the other two. But, I can see your point. It would serve the game very well if FD could/would flesh out the process of exploration, and highlight the science involved in the galaxy.

In RL, I am an avid science reader, especially on cosmology. If the Exploration process, or game play, were more 'sciencey', that part of the game would interest me more. My 'pathfinder' rank would be higher if I could be more involved in the act of exploration, rather than just pointing my ship at stuffs. I believe FD have every intention of giving that to us. They just need the encouragement to do so.

Yeah. So, ENCOURAGEMENT! HERE! HERE! I'm not alone! Please?

 

[smiths121]

Well we have improvemrnt to in-game trade tools coming on Tuesday.
Been a fair amount of puzzle solving with the Guardians and Thargoid bases last year or so. Not everyone's cup of tea.
Engineers was/is way more than jst guns, special effects are just guns, but to worry too much about thas is to diminish the other apsects of engineers. Space is smaller, and even out to 2K there are plenty of bodies in range of the star that have not been scanned if you upgrade the detailed discoery scanner.
Despte the Thargoid having combat scnearios, we have the rescue passengers missions, probably the mist inclusive content for the Thargoids.
Neutonn Stars and Dwarf jumping was hardly put in the gme for combat.

Combat is important to Elite, you cannot trade, mine or take missins without some NPC (PC at CGs) wanting to own you. So combat is unavoidable, as it forms part of the game and part of the game lore. Like it or lump it I suppose.

The OP post read as if all improvements have been focussed on combat - almost to the detriment of everything else. Whilst I agree there has been plenty of combat focus, bt there have been ofo ther improvements for the other activities, and interests.

Simon

 

[gooddoc]

Yeah. Though I think there are lots and lots of players who play for the same reason as you do. Me for example, and many others. The science behind it, is what makes the game unique. It's on Frontier to change course of their game, or not.

But FD know that they will attract more sales from the pewpew aspect than from a scientific point. It's those sales that help keep the funding going. If the game went the scientific route alone then it would become too niche in the market & sales would surely plummet, leading to no game.

FD are developing a game that caters for everyone. Is the balance right yet? No I don't think so, there still isn't enough stuff in the game for the non-pewpewers to do unless they form their own groups & generate the content themselves, like the work that Cannon do, expiditions, etc.