The Current and Future Implementation Of The Ignore Feature

[Podge]

This is currently being discussed in a different thread yet I felt it deserved it's own thread based on how important this game mechanic will potentially be.

In its current form, a player can ignore a player without recourse. They can be ignored for any reason whatsoever, and this can be done unimpeded.

Whilst I am sure FD devs have analyzed this feature I think there needs to be a community discussion on it as it seems it could have some far reaching implications.

For starters: we already have four game modes. This has been fiercely debated and I ask any who post in here to not discuss anything related to the current and future implementation of the game modes, in particular the ability to use the same character over the different modes.

I mention this because the player base will already have been divided four times. The ignore button causes a player to be removed from the player who used the ignore buttons universe. This will cause a fragmentation of the universe.

Imagine this happening with every player; every player will have their reasons to dislike other player/s, yet the usage of the current ignore button could be abused in ways that would have a hugely negative effect on the universe due to the segmentation of the universe into many different 'shards' so to speak.

Some have said that the ignore button is a good thing in that it will cause all the 'griefers' to be grouped together but in reality this will not happen as everyones perception of a griefer and what they define as a griefer will differ.

I am hugely interested in PvP and would play this game mainly to PvP. I like trading as well which is another reason I purchased the beta. Yet because I PvP or am a pirate or whatever I could be indiscriminately ignored, unfairly even.

My suggestion?

The ignore button should be radically changed. It should only be used to block comms with a player (prevent the player from abusing/contacting the player who ignored him/her). Most MMO's limit the ignore option to this feature.

In the case of legitimate griefing (camping outside stations shooting people who haven't a chance to shoot back); the player should have to petition in-game mods and tech support to place the aggressor on the ignore list/blacklist or what ever you desire to call the list. The in-game mod/tech support should then refer to protocols and regulations which they (tech) developed and then make a judgement based on the petition.

I know this would entail alot of extra work for tech support and tbh, am unsure of how feasible it is, yet I am fairly sure that the benefits of this would outweigh the benefits of the current and planned ignore function. Quite how FD would handle the indiscriminate dividing and segmentation of the universe to tailor each players desires along the lines of the ignore list is uncertain to me.

I would ask all who post in this thread to refrain from personal abuse, subtle jibes and please keep the discussion on topic. Whilst I am no mod, I think those who post should respect the mods and refrain from needless abuse which will only infuriate the mods and potentially cause the unleashing of the banhammer.

This issue for me, is potentially more important than the transferability of the character through the game modes as I feel it will have many negative consequences which would cause FD more hassle than if they curtailed its current and planned function.

Lets try and keep the discussion constructive guys

 

[warbaby2]

As I already said in the other thread: Neither feasible nor necessary, since friend lists, grouping mechanics, etc. will mitigate the "power" of ignoring.

Also: ED is a peer2peer game specifically because FD want's to keep maintenance/staff costs down...

Further: I'm not even sure if the game systems (being per2peer, non central server) make it even possible to provide that kind of reporting service. Not sure about that, though.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I am hugely interested in PvP and would play this game mainly to PvP. I like trading as well which is another reason I purchased the beta. Yet because I PvP or am a pirate or whatever I could be indiscriminately ignored, unfairly even.

Don't worry - NPC's won't ignore you.

As for PC's ignoring you - that is entirelly at their discretion, and wether it is discriminatory or not is only decided by the people who are actually affected by that decision - i.e those who ignore you, as your subsequent actions will not affect them.

 

[Herik]

This is currently being discussed in a different thread yet I felt it deserved it's own thread based on how important this game mechanic will potentially be.

In its current form, a player can ignore a player without recourse. They can be ignored for any reason whatsoever, and this can be done unimpeded.

Whilst I am sure FD devs have analyzed this feature I think there needs to be a community discussion on it as it seems it could have some far reaching implications.

For starters: we already have four game modes. This has been fiercely debated and I ask any who post in here to not discuss anything related to the current and future implementation of the game modes, in particular the ability to use the same character over the different modes.

I mention this because the player base will already have been divided four times. The ignore button causes a player to be removed from the player who used the ignore buttons universe. This will cause a fragmentation of the universe.

Imagine this happening with every player; every player will have their reasons to dislike other player/s, yet the usage of the current ignore button could be abused in ways that would have a hugely negative effect on the universe due to the segmentation of the universe into many different 'shards' so to speak.

Some have said that the ignore button is a good thing in that it will cause all the 'griefers' to be grouped together but in reality this will not happen as everyones perception of a griefer and what they define as a griefer will differ.

I am hugely interested in PvP and would play this game mainly to PvP. I like trading as well which is another reason I purchased the beta. Yet because I PvP or am a pirate or whatever I could be indiscriminately ignored, unfairly even.

My suggestion?

The ignore button should be radically changed. It should only be used to block comms with a player (prevent the player from abusing/contacting the player who ignored him/her). Most MMO's limit the ignore option to this feature.

In the case of legitimate griefing (camping outside stations shooting people who haven't a chance to shoot back); the player should have to petition in-game mods and tech support to place the aggressor on the ignore list/blacklist or what ever you desire to call the list. The in-game mod/tech support should then refer to protocols and regulations which they (tech) developed and then make a judgement based on the petition.

I know this would entail alot of extra work for tech support and tbh, am unsure of how feasible it is, yet I am fairly sure that the benefits of this would outweigh the benefits of the current and planned ignore function. Quite how FD would handle the indiscriminate dividing and segmentation of the universe to tailor each players desires along the lines of the ignore list is uncertain to me.

I would ask all who post in this thread to refrain from personal abuse, subtle jibes and please keep the discussion on topic. Whilst I am no mod, I think those who post should respect the mods and refrain from needless abuse which will only infuriate the mods and potentially cause the unleashing of the banhammer.

This issue for me, is potentially more important than the transferability of the character through the game modes as I feel it will have many negative consequences which would cause FD more hassle than if they curtailed its current and planned function.

Lets try and keep the discussion constructive guys

I think its far more important to make sure the "ignore" capability is functional; than to 'diddle' with it. Thus keep it the same.

 

[Podge]

Don't worry - NPC's won't ignore you.

As for PC's ignoring you - that is entirelly at their discretion, and wether it is discriminatory or not is only decided by the people who are actually affected by that decision - i.e those who ignore you, as your subsequent actions will not affect them.

When did I say it wasn't at their discretion?

I know my subsequent actions will not affect them.

I am merely raising the issue of the consequences of unbridled use of the ignore function in its current state. Yes there are obvious ones, yet it is the more subtle ones which can have the biggest affect on the game.

 

[Tinman]

Actually reading the details on how the ignore functionality works helps.

The ignore button does NOT remove the player from your instance. It will however favor others when matchmaking IF a choice exists. The only time you won't be put into the same session is if everyone in that session has you on their ignore list, but this is something the ignored player won't even notice since they will just connect to another instance instead.

A player also has the option to add players to an Ignore List which does the following:

• Removes any friendship between the players automatically (players can’t be friends with players they ignore)
• Ignores all communication from them in game
• Ignores any friend requests from them
• Is active across multiple gaming session until changed by the player (this is different from the options presented in the above sections as they only last as long as the current gaming session)
• People on others ignore lists will not be favoured if a choice exists when match making players together
• If all players in a session have the same player ignored then that player will never be able to join that session
• If at least one player is neutral or friends with the ignored player above then they will be able to join that session providing there is no better suited players trying to get in at the same time when only one slot is available
• If a person earns a bounty their ignore list and friend preferences won’t affect matchmaking, and bounty hunters will still be able to encounter the player, even if the bounty hunter is on the player’s ignore list
• If a player is in a session with another player on their ignore list they will still receive messages relating to that players in game actions and pre-canned dialogue, such as declarations of piracy
• If a player follows another player’s hyperspace trail, the ignore rules cannot be applied to them. The players will join their next session as a group
• Players Ignore lists are based on player accounts, not player characters

Taken from the Groups proposal in the DDA:
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

 

[Asp Explorer]

When did I say it wasn't at their discretion?

I know my subsequent actions will not affect them.

I am merely raising the issue of the consequences of unbridled use of the ignore function in its current state. Yes there are obvious ones, yet it is the more subtle ones which can have the biggest affect on the game.

That's the thing - if your actions (and I don't mean you personally of course) in-game lead to other players not wanting to play with you - you then can't say you are being discriminated against.

Your actions brought about consequences. It's not a prejudice - you actually have had to be judged, and the finder of fact (those ignoring you) have already decided that your actions were unacceptable.

i.e if you griefed someone, and get ignored for that - it's not because you potentially could grief someone, or you looked like a griefer - it's because you went and did it

Now - pre-banning people could be considered discriminatory - I earlier used an example of ignoring members of a certain forum, or with certain nametags - thats discrimination because I applied a blanket-ban on players before I ever saw them act. That's fair enough, and could be considered poor play and indeed discriminatory.

 

[warbaby2]

our actions brought about consequences. It's not a prejudice - you actually have had to be judged, and the finder of fact (those ignoring you) have already decided that your actions were unacceptable.

i.e if you griefed someone, and get ignored for that - it's not because you potentially could grief someone, or you looked like a griefer - it's because you went and did it

Exactly!

Also: Thanks Tinman!

 

[Tar Stone]

The ignore button is actually very well thought out, I remember a discussion about it ages ago, might have been on Lave Radio.

The whole online side of things has been well planned and well put together if you look at the design documents.

If there are any unintended consequences I'm sure they can be raised as and when they occur.

 

[Podge]

Actually reading the details on how the ignore functionality works helps.

The ignore button does NOT remove the player from your instance. It will however favor others when matchmaking IF a choice exists. The only time you won't be put into the same session is if everyone in that session has you on their ignore list, but this is something the ignored player won't even notice since they will just connect to another instance instead.

I didn't realise that everyone in the session had to have ignored me if i were to be unable to get into the same session!

I still don't like the ignore feature in its current and future implementation! I really think it will cause massive problems for tech.

 

[warbaby2]

I didn't realise that everyone in the session had to have ignored me if i were to be unable to get into the same session!

As I said earlier, the system doesn't work in absolutes, it just uses preferences in selection... the more people ignore you, the less likely you are to get in the same session with them. If it's one on one, however, it's pretty much guarantied you don't see people that ignore you.

 

[Ram Envo]

As I said earlier, the system doesn't work in absolutes, it just uses preferences in selection... the more people ignore you, the less likely you are to get in the same session with them. If it's one on one, however, it's pretty much guarantied you don't see people that ignore you.

What I immediately wondered is if there will be some way to metagame it so that you can transfer around ignore lists. One first starting to understand there was a) an ignore function and b) it would prevent joining instances with that player I had 2 thoughts -

1) If I can figure out who has the horrible connection in peer2peer that is ruining gameplay for me, I can put them on ignore!

2) If we can share this information, a trading community could mass ignore pirates by word of mouth and dramatically shrink that pirate's opportunities.

#1 is not feasible unless everyone's doing it to that player, highly unlikely.

So reading the proposal above, and checking how it's implemented in game, #2 isn't really feasible - you have to be in the same instance to ignore the player. (Unless we can find the ignore list and modify it in our local files, which would violate EULA).

What it will really mean is that pirates won't get to negotiate with their prey on a after-ignored encounter, i.e. "Drop 4 cargo and I'll let you go" will be unheard, but the followup laser bursts will still connect. Correct?

If it doesn't actually prevent you from pirating, I think the effect is minimal.

 

[Guy DudeBroMan]

I also agree that there really isn't another practical way this feature could function and still be meaningful. I put people in the real world on my 'ignore' list all the time. Several have the last name 'Kardashian.' I don't need a reason. The function seems to work for me...until someone on my 'friends' list brings them up, that is. In ED, while there is potential for abuse, say, to mass-ignore a specific person, there would need to be a lot of coordination on the parts of the ignorers, so either that person did something to justify such treatment (not to be confused with *deserving* that treatment) OR the ignorers are just being extraordinarily spiteful. Unfortunately, the alternative would be to...what, have to list a reason for the ignore, I am thinking? But then, if you want to ignore someone that bad, would you be hung-up on giving a fake reason for that, too?

I think the ignore function is a great middle-ground between private group and open group, as it gives you an opportunity to stay with the rest of the universe and yet you always 'just happen to miss' those people that annoy you. ...Like...not going to a particular grocery store at particular times of the day to avoid an ex.

 

[Zvanya]

I see no problems with the ignore feature as described in the DDA.

Appealing to the consequence of fragmenting the player base may be not be the best argument. The DDA on grouping and ignore indicates that the player base is being fragmented by design Working as intended.