Astronomy / Space The Elite Galaxy

[lysan]

So, we have had this discussion befor. However I would like to discuss it in this forum instead on the dangerous forum, because it more a technical discussion and not a false or true discussion.

Claim: In Elite Dangerous you can travel from system to system, if you got the time to do it!

Argument: You cannot fly from system to system, because the system will only be a marker even if you reach it, like USS bubbles.

So how is the galaxy made in Elite? is it made of million of bubbles (containers) you will need to access by dropping out (to load in) or
is it made in another way?

To me it look like a cake.

1st layer Galaxy
2nd layer are the systems
3rd layer stations/outposts/?

You can't access them unless you transcend into the "container"

I can 100% understand why its done this way, what I don't understand are when you shift from instance to instance and or container, some people are experiencing a freeze in time (pausing in mid "space") and others don't? I also don't understand why you can't load in the systems if someone get the crazy idea to travel for hours to a system, there should be more than enough time to "sneak load" the system befor he or she reach the system?

 

[Bartizan]

Smoke and Mirrors. Each system is a instance for lack of better term that requires loading. The time you spend in Frame Shift is like a loading bar. To call each an individual bubble is a little misleading. Just think of it like the zones of other MMOs. The maps and markers are cleverly designed to disguise this concept to maintain a "sense" of immersion while keeping the mechanics of it manageable. Could we see "borderless" systems in the future? maybe but no clue.

 

[esxste]

So, we have had this discussion befor. However I would like to discuss it in this forum instead on the dangerous forum, because it more a technical discussion and not a false or true discussion.

I'm not sure the Astronomy forum is the best place to discuss game design.

Claim: In Elite Dangerous you can travel from system to system, if you got the time to do it!

Argument: You cannot fly from system to system, because the system will only be a marker even if you reach it, like USS bubbles.

http://jfsem.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Confused-Guy.jpg

So how is the galaxy made in Elite? is it made of million of bubbles (containers) you will need to access by dropping out (to load in) or
is it made in another way?

To me it look like a cake.

1st layer Galaxy
2nd layer are the systems
3rd layer stations/outposts/?

You can't access them unless you transcend into the "container"


I can 100% understand why its done this way, what I don't understand are when you shift from instance to instance and or container, some people are experiencing a freeze in time (pausing in mid "space") and others don't? I also don't understand why you can't load in the systems if someone get the crazy idea to travel for hours to a system, there should be more than enough time to "sneak load" the system befor he or she reach the system?

The game is procedurally generated. Its all based on rules.

In supercruise, certain rules apply to how your ship handles, how you accelerate, what planets look like etc. The load times people experience depends on thngs like internet speed, transaction server load, and local hardware capability.

In normal space, other rules appy, but its still generated according to rules. When you're just in supercruise, and you drop randomly, its quick becuase there isn't a lot of of information needed. When you drop out of supercruise on a station, if you're in open or a PG you need to be matched with other players if they're in the same location. Because the game is peer to peer based, it can soemtimes take a while for your computer to communicate and sync with everyone elses.

I'd imagine the reason that you can't just fly to another star system is simply down to the fact it would be unfeasible to procedurally generate every star system in the galaxy everytime you go into supercruise; and given that it would take many, many real time hours to travel in game from one star system to another, the Dev's just didn't think it would be worth the effort to develop "sneak loading".

 

[Caramel Clown]

I always thought that in games with procedurally generated environments nothing is really...premade. Systems aren't really there to speak of. Every time you do a hyperspace jump you're not really moving anywhere, game reads a set of rules for selected system and just builds it around you. You changing location on the galaxy map is just an illusion. It's just another line in a set of rules - position of a player.
Same way skybox works in ED - it's constructed every time you 'move' into a new system. You don't really see all these stars around you in real time - it was tested that you can't just fly from system to system. They are drawn and totally static.
Doesn't make galaxy in ED any less impressive or immersive, but I think it's just an incredibly smart implementation of an otherwise impossible task for a game.

 

[lysan]

I always thought that in games with procedurally generated environments nothing is really...premade. Systems aren't really there to speak of. Every time you do a hyperspace jump you're not really moving anywhere, game reads a set of rules for selected system and just builds it around you. You changing location on the galaxy map is just an illusion. It's just another line in a set of rules - position of a player.
Same way skybox works in ED - it's constructed every time you 'move' into a new system. You don't really see all these stars around you in real time - it was tested that you can't just fly from system to system. They are drawn and totally static.
Doesn't make galaxy in ED any less impressive or immersive, but I think it's just an incredibly smart implementation of an otherwise impossible task for a game.

Absolutely not, I'm just wondering, how its done that's all. From a immersive point of view it would be cool to be able to travel from one system to another seamlessly and as you get closer the stars and planets start to render in. I understand that it is not the dev time worthy, and who would want to do that, unless its to make point?

However I believe David Braben said that you could do it if you wanted to? then I just ask, if so, why is it not really working like that?

 

[Caramel Clown]

Absolutely not, I'm just wondering, how its done that's all. From a immersive point of view it would be cool to be able to travel from one system to another seamlessly and as you get closer the stars and planets start to render in. I understand that it is not the dev time worthy, and who would want to do that, unless its to make point?

However I believe David Braben said that you could do it if you wanted to? then I just ask, if so, why is it not really working like that?

I suppose in the future function might be implemented. I actually think it shouldn't be that hard. Just load in selected system at certain distance to it. However, there are some problems I might see coming up - for example what if there's another system directly in the way. Should it be loaded, but not the one you're trying to travel to?
I don't think concept of totally open galaxy where you can travel to any system by just flying is realistic, or necessary at this point. But I wouldn't discard the possibility of this being in the game at some point. Maybe one day FD will get bored with all the little things, and will finally create actual galaxy

Edit. You can actually fly in any direction you like, but when you arrive to a selected system there will be nothing there. You will technically still be in an instance of the old system.

 

[Hell Razor5543]

There are a few personal reasons as to why things are in the Elite Dangerous Galaxy. As I understand it, the reason for the "Blue Danube" music when you use a Standard Docking Computer is because this was the music that was playing during the station docking sequence in the film "2001; A Space Odyssey", and the reason for the top speed in Super Cruise is also because of that film (so, 2001C). I believe that senior people at FDev rather like that film.

 

[lysan]

There are a few personal reasons as to why things are in the Elite Dangerous Galaxy. As I understand it, the reason for the "Blue Danube" music when you use a Standard Docking Computer is because this was the music that was playing during the station docking sequence in the film "2001; A Space Odyssey", and the reason for the top speed in Super Cruise is also because of that film (so, 2001C). I believe that senior people at FDev rather like that film.

Well, I like that movie too It's a master piece.