General / Off-Topic The Emergent Immersion Paroxysm

I'm actually trying to keep the paroxysming to a minimum, but...

I realize it's a thing, especially in these days, to take a word, any word, and simply adapt it to mean something other than its intended usage, and it drives me crazy. And the worst part - you can't track it to its source, and even if you do, the best you'll get is a shrug from whomever started it.

Let's start with "Emergent".. it's meaning is: "in the process of coming into being or becoming prominent."
We talk about "Emergent Content", though we typically mean "Forced PvP", be it a simple attempt to relieve someone of their cargo, or simply to blow someone up and tell them they're not good enough.

But this isn't "in the process of coming in to being" - it's long been a staple of the game. NPC's have been interdicting people since they first flew out of their first station. And they've been blowing people up just as long. There's nothing new here, and it isn't "becoming prominent", it's always been there. Our randomly generated missions are more "emergent", as they are "coming into being" every time we visit a mission board.
Elite is an Emergent game, as it continues to change as we continue to play, with new content, new features, and old content and features being expanded upon with each new update. That's Emergent. Bothering someone else simply because you can is not.

Then there's "Immersion", defined as "deep mental involvement." This is what happens when you're engaged in playing, happen to notice that it's 10:00pm, and think "I'll just finish delivering this, and go to bed." only to find out, after you log off, that it's now 1:15am and you simply cannot fathom how it could have taken 3 hours and 15 minutes to travel 3 jumps and turn in a mission. It is broken when your (wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/otherfriend) walks in to your computer area wearing their "Play With Me" outfit and takes off your VR headset so you can see them. It's broken when the power fails, someone breaks in, or life otherwise intrudes on your "you time".

It isn't broken by any mechanics of the game, be it that multicrew doesn't conform to what you wanted it to be, or by someone who spent 100 hours for that perfectly min-maxed result on the frag cannon one-shots your Cutter. If playing the game somehow prevents you from achieving a state of "deep mental involvement", then you were never "Immersed" in the first place.

The misuse of language isn't "cool", "hip" or "fun". It's an emergent trait, born of the internet, that breaks my life-immersion, and it sounds silly.

There... it feels good to get that off my chest. Anybody else want to share something you hear regularly that simply makes you paroxysmistic?
 
The misuse of language isn't "cool", "hip" or "fun". It's an emergent trait, born of the internet, that breaks my life-immersion, and it sounds silly.


Have to correct you there: the so-called misuse of language has been a thing since language was a thing. Language is a tool used for communication, not some immutable concept with a clearly defined 'pure' state from which you can determine proper use. Words carry the meaning assigned to them in the context they're being used by those using them.

Well, unless you're a prescriptivist (or just getting old and grumpy [hehe] )
 
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I get really annoyed by the incorrect usage of the term meta, as it seems like 90% of the internet nowadays misuse the term. Specifically, players don't understand the term metagame.

Quite literally, the term metagame means "beyond the game", the art of using knowledge and resources outside of the game in order to win. Metagaming is using any information or concepts that are not literally coded into the game itself.

If everyone is using the same build for their ships because it's the best, then that's not a metagame, it's the officially supported way to play the game. If everyone uses a particular build because their favourite twitch streamer uses it, not because of it's actual qualities, then those players are metagaming.

If you are going into a PvP duel and you simply crunch the numbers to get the greatest min/maxed powerhouse ship possible, then you are simply playing the game, the meta doesn't feature into it regardless of how many players use the same build and strategy. However, if you instead respond to the duel invite by poring over every single scrap of information about your opponent's history and which modules/weapons/ships they typically use and build your ship to counter theirs, then you have begun playing the opponent - playing beyond the game and into the realms of metagaming.

Which brings in the important point, if something is popular because it is the strongest and most effective tactic, then it cannot be part of the metagame. By definition, the metagame is going beyond the game, but if a notable balance problem exists then that using that method then it doesn't involve personal flavour or information from outside the game - it's simply the officially supported way of playing the game (intentionally or not). Calling an overpowered thing as being the current "meta" is like saying that "gathering minerals for the first couple of minutes" is the meta in starcraft, or "use the accelerator pedal" is the meta in a racing game. If a deep neural net AI that knows nothing beyond the game arrives at the same conclusion as the players - then it's not a meta, it's a balance problem. If said neural net kept cycling through different permutations and was unable to isolate a particular strategy as being dominant, but the players nonetheless still gravitate to a particular one, then we have an actual metagame on our hands.

Perhaps most telling of all, in a balanced system the metagame should shift and change based on player perception and as players attempt to counter particular strategies. If the game stagnates around a particular strategy and never changes unless the devs make tweaks, then welcome to a world of balance hell where player choice is irrelevant unless you want to actively gimp yourself.
 
Have to correct you there: the so-called misuse of language has been a thing since language was a thing. Language is a tool used for communication, not some immutable concept with a clearly defined 'pure' state from which you can determine proper use. Words carry the meaning assigned to them in the context they're being used by those using them.

Well, unless you're a prescriptivist (or just getting old and grumpy [hehe] )
Although there are some right language manglers out there!
'Alternative facts' and other such abuses of language to be disingenuous or outright lie really boils my pee!
Such abuses were around before the example I have mentioned but the use of language to make a thing appear other than it is really winds me up.
 
"Immersion" is the new "visceral".

For me at least, it has to do with a sense of being a part of the game universe within the context of you playing the game and a sense of Commander agency. For me, there seems to be a bit of a distinction between ways of approaching and playing the game as well, i.e., "immersion" gaming vs. "meta" gaming. In my opinion, it's best when these two modes of play (if you will) don't conflict with each other nor are incentivized differently. For practical reasons, this isn't always the case, of course, and for this a player's tolerance for 4th-wall-breaking can vary from others.

Naturally, this is a game with game mechanics and various ways of interacting with the game environment, but some will likewise prefer the game to be less "gamey" in different ways than others or potential even the developer's "vision."

So, basically, YMMV, and there will inherently be some contention between what people find "immersive" or not.
 
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Have to correct you there: the so-called misuse of language has been a thing since language was a thing. Language is a tool used for communication, not some immutable concept with a clearly defined 'pure' state from which you can determine proper use. Words carry the meaning assigned to them in the context they're being used by those using them.

Well, unless you're a prescriptivist (or just getting old and grumpy [hehe] )


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"Parrot."

No.

Language does require some immutability, or we'd all sound like we're suffering from aphasia. It wouldn't work, and civilization would still be pointing and grunting at things - which at times can be more clear than actually speaking, but not so good for the written word.
 
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Let's start with "Emergent".. it's meaning is: "in the process of coming into being or becoming prominent."
We talk about "Emergent Content", though we typically mean "Forced PvP", be it a simple attempt to relieve someone of their cargo, or simply to blow someone up and tell them they're not good enough.
...

Hopefully you posting this has been a cathartic experience? Because this misuse of words is the way of the world, and has been for as long as there have been records of language. Yesterday's misuse is tomorrow's valid use.

I also get annoyed by it sometimes - but more often amused. And I thank our lucky stars there is no "Academie Francais"(sp?) controlling our language and giving pedants a dangerous righteousness...
 
I always put mental scare quotation marks around the word "emergent", because I thought misusing the word was a community specific thing here. As in, go figure, the Elite community misuses the word emergent, visual novels on consoles attract gamers looking for easy achievements/trophies, every niche has it's little "thing".

Is...isn't that what everyone else was doing?
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"Parrot."

No.

Language does require some immutability, or we'd all sound like we're suffering from aphasia. It wouldn't work, and civilization would still be pointing and grunting at things - which at times can be more clear than actually speaking, but not so good for the written word.

Thank you so much for this.
 
I have no problem with the correct use of either of those words in regard to Elite Dangerous.

What we do in the Fuel Rats is absolutely emergent content, using screenshots of station clock on launch and landing for timing Buckyball Races (and using various aspects of terrain, structure, gravity, beacon scanning, etc, as elements of a race), that's emergent content.

And for me ED is definitely immersive, when I'm playing I'm the commander of a spaceship traversing the galaxy in search of adventure ... and when I jump to an anarchy system and it pops up a message in the middle of my screen saying "Press [J] or [joystick 5] + [joystick 9]" to abort the jump ... that "breaks my immersion".
 
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Ok, devs, I totally love your game, but this total RNG is literally grind, completely breaking my immersion and sucking the fun out of any engaging, visceral gameplay. What went through the dev's head gating all progress behind such a skinnerbox. As a paying customer I will boycott this company until they patch in a fix and fire whoever is responsible for this terrible mess of a gaming experience. I expected more. I am so disappointed right now. Please make this right.


You hear that buzzing? Is it tinnitus or just the normal forum noise?
 
Hopefully you posting this has been a cathartic experience? Because this misuse of words is the way of the world, and has been for as long as there have been records of language. Yesterday's misuse is tomorrow's valid use.

I also get annoyed by it sometimes - but more often amused. And I thank our lucky stars there is no "Academie Francais"(sp?) controlling our language and giving pedants a dangerous righteousness...

Indubitably. And a good bit of harmless fun, with maybe a slight hint of thought-process stimulus as well.
 
I have no problem with the correct use of either of those words in regard to Elite Dangerous.

What we do in the Fuel Rats is absolutely emergent content, using screenshots of station clock on launch and landing for timing Buckyball Races (and using various aspects of terrain, structure, gravity, beacon scanning, etc, as elements of a race), that's emergent content.

And for me ED is definitely immersive, when I'm playing I'm the commander of a spaceship traversing the galaxy in search of adventure ... and when I jump to an anarchy system and it pops up a message in the middle of my screen saying "Press [J] or [joystick 5] + [joystick 9]" to abort the jump ... that "breaks my immersion".

On this, I do concur - especially the "Press [J]" display. It was fine during the tutorials, when I didn't know my aft from a black hole. And I get it, people can and do forget what their buttons do from time to time, but give me an option to turn this off already. If I haven't figured out how to ↓J [delay .125]↑[delay 3200]↓D [delay 6675]↑↓H [delay 2600]↑ by now, I never will.
 
Fantastic thread, cane you make a series out of it?

I'm sure I have my far share of misuses like that, and I may not even know it considering English isn't my primary language, so I would love to see more opportunities to learn from people better at using it.

Repsez incomingz!
 
I get really annoyed by the incorrect usage of the term meta, as it seems like 90% of the internet nowadays misuse the term. Specifically, players don't understand the term metagame.

Quite literally, the term metagame means "beyond the game...

Which brings in the important point, if something is popular because it is the strongest and most effective tactic, then it cannot be part of the metagame.

META is an acronym for Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's not the Greek prefix. Hence cometh the confusion. People using the acronym don't capitalize, and spell it interchangeably with the prefix.

Best tactics should be " the META", not the metagame.
 
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Here's an interesting thought...

Lucid dreams not withstanding, our dreams seem rather "immersive" perhaps in part due to a separation of our logic driven, conscious brains not over-analyzing things and getting in the way. Now it's just a simple matter of recreating that in video game format in a compelling way with game mechanics. [hehe]

META is an acronym for Most Effective Tactic Available.
It's not the Greek prefix. Hence cometh the confusion. People using the acronym don't capitalize, and spell it interchangeably with the prefix.

When "META" (as you say) need not be meta, I find it to be more compelling in general. Again, YMMV.
 
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