Engineers The Engineering RNG's SERIOUSLY Need Adjustment!!!

[J.Dubs]

OK so prob threads already exist on this. IDC!

The Engineering RNG's need adjusting badly. Given the amount of time investment for collecting the mats for G5 Rolls, they especially need adjustment.

I find it pretty ridiculous that out of 2 full weekends (around 48+ full hours of game time) of gathering extremely rare mats for around 100 rolls on Rapid Mods for Pulse Lasers, I received ONE roll that was borderline acceptable. ONE!! That ONE wasnt even very impressive!! That doesnt even take into consideration the fact that I spent nearly 3 full hours on the surface of a planet with a Technetium droprate of 1.4% without a single drop!! (This nonsense also needs adjustment)

That was nearly a month ago. Moving On..

This past week's episode of Engineering for Failz, included about 10 hours of gathering mats to roll G5 Dirty Drives. Lo and Behold I needed 1 decent G5 Dirty roll on a 5A Thruster Package. Out of 30 rolls, not a single acceptable roll. NOT ONE!! Oh but that @55hole Palin was more than willing to be more than generous with the useless Integrity Secondary Effects. Fully 80% of the rolls were contaminated with this unwanted huge waste of time and materials. The Integrity Secondary Effect needs to be significantly trimmed in its frequency across all modules. If I was interested in Integrity, there is a "Strengthening" or "Shielded" Modification category that boasts specifically that. (Perhaps I should spend the time gathering mats for Integrity and will receive the Multiplier & DPS enhancements that I seek).

I am not demanding guarantees for God/Banger rolls here. But, is it honestly too much to ask that the RNG's that are dependent upon RNG's that are dependent upon RNG's to be adjusted to be more rewarding for the arduous time and effort that goes into trying to modify our ships' modules to our preferences? Not even the early iterations of the Monster Hunter series were this kind of restrictive on giving up the goods!!

I am sorry for the rant, fellow Commanders. This is a frustration that has been brewing within me for sometime, and is directly aimed at the Developers. This issue needs to be addressed. This masterpiece of a game is a huge grind, and equally a time-sink. I have put my time in (Over 2600 hours), I avoid exploits (Monetary & Engineering), I am usually willing to help friendlies wherever that I encounter them (especially the New Players), enjoy all of the aspects of this masterpiece, and I am sure that it will continually become more thrilling as time passes.

Despite the minor cathartic effect that this rant serves to my personal interests (and hopefully many others, as well), I hope that it will be interpreted appropriately as feedback and motivation to the Developers to improve this essential aspect of an amazing game.

I have found few things, within Elite Dangerous, that are as satisfying as having a ship that has been successfully engineered to your particular preferences, strategies, and (of course) Objectives.


I Thank You All for your time, attention, and resulting replies.

CMDR J.Dubs

 

[idahosurge]

I feel your pain OP.

Commanders have been complaining since the Engineers update dropped.

I highly doubt that FD is going to ever give RNG an update of any kind that would result in a significant improvement.

 

[Ethan Drake]

Sorry for the grotesque pain, feel the same.

@Idahosurge : If they have not yet, it's because we have not explained well enough why they should, and/or given valuable enough alternatives.

Random results guys are not engineers, they are weekend handymen.
If the problem is to make the better results statistically long (grindy) to get, why not put a cost curve ?
1 mat (CIF or else) to spend to get base/average result, +1 +3 +6 +10 +15 +21 +28 +36 +45 +55... to get increasingly better results (artithmetic suit) or +1 +2 +4 +8 +16 +32 +64 (geometric) to get the top-notch ones.
If some guys are mad enough to spend 1024 mats to get one ultimate %, over the already nuts one who spent 512 for the next best %... so be it.
Then we'd have some results points we can shift distribution amongst the various parameters of the module modification (and get more by negative results or so on).

This way, the guy at FD who is afraid of us getting bored without grind would be pleased, and the players too. People with a life could still get a life without being RIP in open, and people willing and able to invest a lot could get a marginal reward.

If this solution is not enough for the conception requirements, submitting those requirements would allow the people here to find another solution. We are a lot and ok to work on this for free !

If this is for financial reasons, bringing back players who stop playing to get new kits/colors/seasons/whatever or don't bring their friends because of the senseless grind is WAY more than enough. I have stopped playing thrice this year because of the grind, and not sure I'll stay long enough to buy the new paintjobs for my corvette, so I don't. I had more than a dozen utopian guys adn in-game friends telling that they were going away because of grind and boredom. I have offered the game to two people who don't play it anymore, who for one find it boring, and for the other won't consider bringing in his friends and whole guild just because of the RNG. Keeping those bad designs DO cost you money, FD managing people, and invisible costs touching customers almost always turn out to be the worst opportunity costs ever.

The only case that could be left, is that some guy with the power to decide has such an ego that he won't listen to reason, or some other little story like he thinks he knows better than his players, like Lorraine Williams did for TSR. Every one makes mistakes, we don't have choice. Hanging on those is a choice, and it has its price.

 

[Zeeman]

An ongoing source of frustration for many. Some folk, for some reason or other, seem very happy with the way engineers works. No idea why, or what goes through their minds, but clearly, freedom of speech, opinion and all that.

Personally, I'm for player adjustable sliders, or even just case of re-rolling the same modules results in improvements only - with a limit of 5 rolls or something.

Z...

 

[Crimson Kaim]

We just need sliders, balance and sanity for all!

 

[CMDR Cylixx]

We just need sliders, balance and sanity for all!

Pretty much. Just wait for the first defender to chime in with "BUT COOKIE CUTTER BUILDS!!!!! IT WORKS FOR ME SO IT WORKS FOR YOU!!!"

 

[Bieltan]

Out of curiosity, what is considered an "unacceptable" roll on G5DD thrusters? What is the dream roll/desired side-effects?

 

[CMDR Cylixx]

Out of curiosity, what is considered an "unacceptable" roll on G5DD thrusters? What is the dream roll/desired side-effects?

Anything that doesn't provide the function you want. Could be anything from heat too high to optimal multiplier too low, a combination of both. Maybe someone got a G4 equivalent from a G5 and they consider that unacceptable - everyone has their own desired outcome locked behind a RNG wall.

 

[Bieltan]

Anything that doesn't provide the function you want. Could be anything from heat too high to optimal multiplier too low, a combination of both. Maybe someone got a G4 equivalent from a G5 and they consider that unacceptable - everyone has their own desired outcome locked behind a RNG wall.

Hmmm... I agree that each grade should comprehensively outclass the prior one, but I dunno. 1 out of 100 being acceptable...eh...flies in the face of my experience thus far...maybe RNGesus smiles on me more?

 

[CMDR Cylixx]

Hmmm... I agree that each grade should comprehensively outclass the prior one, but I dunno. 1 out of 100 being acceptable...eh...flies in the face of my experience thus far...maybe RNGesus smiles on me more?

I think you would have both experienced the same reward rate, but how we perceive the benefit of those rewards is well... as random and varied as we are!

My biggest issue recently was trying to mod an overcharged power plant to have exactly 12MW - which was exactly in the middle of the G3 range, many of these attempts would come very close to 12, but then be saddled with an unbalanced level of heat efficiency. It took me ages to get, something that by engineering standards was very very average - but I committed to re rolling on it because it finished my perfect Dolphin build.

Could have been achieved with 1 roll.

 

[Bieltan]

I think you would have both experienced the same reward rate, but how we perceive the benefit of those rewards is well... as random and varied as we are!

My biggest issue recently was trying to mod an overcharged power plant to have exactly 12MW - which was exactly in the middle of the G3 range, many of these attempts would come very close to 12, but then be saddled with an unbalanced level of heat efficiency in exchange for giving it less weight or something else I didn't want. It took me ages to get, something that by engineering standards was very very average - but I committed to re rolling on it because it finished my perfect Dolphin build.

Could have been achieved with 1 roll.

Well, I got 5 acceptable G5 OC rolls on my Multis recently, 1 roll each, no downsides that were too much. I did 2 G4 Efficient Lasers too and that took 3 rolls each to get a result I was happy with.

5 rolls on G5 DD Thrusters gave me a respectable 33% optimal whatever, without crippling heat or anything...

I wonder if OP is chasing perfect rolls?

 

[Han Zulu]

An ongoing source of frustration for many. Some folk, for some reason or other, seem very happy with the way engineers works. No idea why, or what goes through their minds, but clearly, freedom of speech, opinion and all that.

Personally, I'm for player adjustable sliders, or even just case of re-rolling the same modules results in improvements only - with a limit of 5 rolls or something.

Z...

Basically, you pay for a modification. And you can use the sliders, but they're balanced to each other so increasing one automatically move the other ones negative. That way, you can get the best modification you want with one "roll" or payment, but it just means the other parameters are less.

 

[b101uk]

I rolled an acceptable 6A FSD within 10 try's, it was a level 4, with a 42.7% increase of optimized mass, which made the difference between a Type-9 with 460t of cargo, a 16t fuel tank and a 3B fuel scoop capable of just 13.08LY fully loaded and ~26LY range between refuelling, into one that could carry 460t of cargo and have a 64t fuel tank with a 3B fuel scoop and do 18LY jumps fully loaded with a range of over 140LY between refuelling, sure the FSD gained 14.49t of mass and there was a 9% increase in thermal load and 9% integrity loss, and an 18% increase in power draw.

its been much the same with all the FSD I have rolled.

after all it should be significantly easer to roll a level 1 or 2 with little negative result than to roll a very good level 5 with secondary's that negate the primary negative effects, by orders of magnitude that should be in the realms of 1000:1 or more rather than 100:1 or less.

sure I can see a place for interlinked sliders where moving one for positive effect forcibly moves another into negative effect for "off-the-shelf" with a hint of RNG just to perturb the end result a little with secondary's, but you could say there is also room for each level having multiple types of mats that could be used, where the type of mats and their rarity or cost of commodities influences outcome.

e.g. having various mats and commodities in your cargo hold for use could negate some negative effects, i.e. if you had titanium, gold, silver, ceramic composites, superconductors and meta-alloys that were also consumed on each roll, which served the purpose of 1 increasing your chance of positive outcome while providing relief from some negative effects, i.e. titanium, ceramic composites and meta-alloys = reduced mass gain and integrity loss, gold, silver and superconductors = less power consumption and heat output, etc etc etc, so spending money also helps negate some of the RNG odds, but still permits mats only rolls.

 

[Soopyyy]

Well, I got 5 acceptable G5 OC rolls on my Multis recently, 1 roll each, no downsides that were too much. I did 2 G4 Efficient Lasers too and that took 3 rolls each to get a result I was happy with.

5 rolls on G5 DD Thrusters gave me a respectable 33% optimal whatever, without crippling heat or anything...

I wonder if OP is chasing perfect rolls?

I got reasonably lucky with my Multi-cannons. FSD upgrades are a joke though, most of the time barely better than stock. RNG dice rolls for module upgrades is a pants idea.

 

[VonBlade]

I've engineered pretty much everything on all 31 ships, most of which required one or two rolls to be very near to the best I could realistically hope for.

The worst I had was three G5DDs, but that was because my first roll was so good I was chasing it.

Now, no I don't want a medal. But if you go chasing perfection you should require a bajillion rolls. If you merely want a bigger jump range, or a thermally efficient laser that has a small boost to damage, it shouldn't take more than two or three. There is no way I was lucky 300 times in a row.

 

[Soopyyy]

I've engineered pretty much everything on all 31 ships, most of which required one or two rolls to be very near to the best I could realistically hope for.

The worst I had was three G5DDs, but that was because my first roll was so good I was chasing it.

Now, no I don't want a medal. But if you go chasing perfection you should require a bajillion rolls. If you merely want a bigger jump range, or a thermally efficient laser that has a small boost to damage, it shouldn't take more than two or three. There is no way I was lucky 300 times in a row.

The problem is, there is no base line for "good" what you consider to be worthwhile may not be to someone else. So we're arguing over the length of a piece of string.
Which in its self highlights the sillyness of the entire system. It shouldn't be totally random, "luck" shouldn't be the determining factor.

 

[Bieltan]

I got reasonably lucky with my Multi-cannons. FSD upgrades are a joke though, most of the time barely better than stock. RNG dice rolls for module upgrades is a pants idea.

Mmm, my FSD took a few more rolls, true...

 

[b101uk]

The problem is, there is no base line for "good" what you consider to be worthwhile may not be to someone else. So we're arguing over the length of a piece of string.
Which in its self highlights the sillyness of the entire system. It shouldn't be totally random, "luck" shouldn't be the determining factor.

while there is an element of truth in that, BUT look how long it take and number of iterations to refine a race car engine so it has performance, efficiency and reliability, in essence extracting all of its potential while retaining reliability, it shows there is still an element of trial and error and pure luck in reaching that point even in very high-end engineering.

 

[CMDR Cylixx]

while there is an element of truth in that, BUT look how long it take and number of iterations to refine a race car engine so it has performance, efficiency and reliability, in essence extracting all of its potential while retaining reliability, it shows there is still an element of trial and error and pure luck in reaching that point even in very high-end engineering.

That's pretty much saying "use your imagination". I could choose to see that the RNG disappointed me again, or I could pretend each failure screen is progress...

Sorry I'm out.

 

[b101uk]

That's pretty much saying "use your imagination". I could choose to see that the RNG disappointed me again, or I could pretend each failure screen is progress...

Sorry I'm out.

but that's the iterative process of IRL engineering when trying to extract ten tenths of the performance of something while also reducing any resultant deficit in another area/s, you could think of rolls of the RNG dice as just iterations as not to your liking, and as Edison said of the lightbulb filament,

Results? Why, man, I have gotten lots of results! If I find 10,000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed. I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is often a step forward. - Thomas Edison