Horizons The Engineers... And accessing them. Player style driven perhaps?

Susanna

Susanna
Ok, another contentious issue... And I may be speaking out of turn here as I haven't visited Tod the Blaster yet...

It's indicative that the engineer exploration mods from Felicity and Elvira are both hard to obtain while the combat mods from Tod the Blaster are much easier (at least in principle). This indicates to me that the devs want to butter up to the testosterone junkies a lot more than the exploration/trader types playing the game by making these more readily obtainable...

Once the npc bugs have been ironed out I'll go try my hand with Tod, but at the moment I'll bide my time as destruction seems the inevitable outcome at the moment...

What I'm getting at here is the underlying ethos that the combat elements (of the game) are taking presidence over other game elements and that may be driven by simply sales for the game :O
In other words, it's the testosterone junkies buying the game that then saturate the balance in the game and drive it in that direction... It is after all typically 20 something year old guys buying and playing this game that drives development. You only need to look at all of the Call of Duty frag fest type games to see where the smart games money is... It's this demographic that is catered for while not Nurturing a broader user base. The days of games like Myst seem to be a distant memory! And I'm saddened that I see a similar future for ED - becoming just another frag fest for 20something guys that just want to blow something up at the weekend... And what a lost opportunity that will be.

I suspect that the mods of this forum for example are nearly all from the testosterone junkies faction of ED players.

And I suspect that the Frontier Devs are all of the same or similar mind set.

Well throw me a bone when you get around to it...[sad]
 

Pville_Piper

Pville_Piper
Interesting take on the Engineers aka shade tree mechanics. I too think the game has taken a definite slant towards combat. My combat rating is Competent and I would argue that the rating is a bit generous. Mostly Harmless NPCs are just that and I have had 1 combat with a Novice and he gave me a pretty good fight but it wasn't that hard to kill him. Over 50% of NPCs interdicting me are Elite or Master. Most of the time I can just boost away and jump to super cruise with no real issues but 1 out 3 or 4 will strip my shields before I can jump (5A on a FAS) and one prevented me from jumping but I had no Mass Lock indicator.

I'm not sure why they think that someone with mid grade combat rating should be interdicted by high level NPCs most of the time. It makes no sense.
My biggest issue is the weapons balance we had before is gone and lower level cmdrs with standard loadouts have to fight high level NPCs with upgraded weapons.

I wanted to upgrade my FSD but now I'm thinking thrusters are more of a priority. All the FAS really needed was a buff to the jump range but now it needs pretty much everything. I personally don't think the weapons upgrades were all that needed. The main thing combat related that we needed was better NPCs and better missions. We got those, but now weapons will be out of balance for the foreseeable future, perhaps permanently.
 

Mugur

M
Pville_Piper said:
Interesting take on the Engineers aka shade tree mechanics. I too think the game has taken a definite slant towards combat. My combat rating is Competent and I would argue that the rating is a bit generous. Mostly Harmless NPCs are just that and I have had 1 combat with a Novice and he gave me a pretty good fight but it wasn't that hard to kill him. Over 50% of NPCs interdicting me are Elite or Master. Most of the time I can just boost away and jump to super cruise with no real issues but 1 out 3 or 4 will strip my shields before I can jump (5A on a FAS) and one prevented me from jumping but I had no Mass Lock indicator.

I'm not sure why they think that someone with mid grade combat rating should be interdicted by high level NPCs most of the time. It makes no sense.
My biggest issue is the weapons balance we had before is gone and lower level cmdrs with standard loadouts have to fight high level NPCs with upgraded weapons.

I wanted to upgrade my FSD but now I'm thinking thrusters are more of a priority. All the FAS really needed was a buff to the jump range but now it needs pretty much everything. I personally don't think the weapons upgrades were all that needed. The main thing combat related that we needed was better NPCs and better missions. We got those, but now weapons will be out of balance for the foreseeable future, perhaps permanently.
Click to expand...

I don't do any exploration outside the bubble, but if I get the chance to obtain a single mod, this would be to increase the FSD range. Regarding the weapons, people need to adapt, either by upgrading/modding or by changing the play style against NPCs. If you know the opponent strategy and your own (level of) combat abilities, you can win one way or another. For example, people tent to use low distributor weapons like pulse or MC. If you have the opponent in your sight only 1 second out of 5, better use beam, even if it eats the distributor in 5 seconds with 4 pips to weapons. Also use chaff, heatsinks, shield banks, turrets if outmaneuvered by most ships, fa off, boost, pip management, etc.

What aggravates the weapons problem is that (IMHO) real good modifications (level 5 and special abilities) are almost impossible to obtain in a reasonable amount of time. In beta they said that on 5 you have 75% chance to get a special ability - now people complain that they roll like 18 times in a row and don't get anything.
 

Space Sniper

S
Yeah I tend to agree. Game is becoming to combat focused at the expense of the rest of the game. I would like to see more love given to exploring and trade, instead of just throwing more combat at it.

All I have seen so far is Frontier throw combat at everything to fix the problems. Not everyone wants combat, but I guess its too bad, we are getting it.
 

Codger

Codger
The game is definitely moving toward more and more combat, and I think that's a sad thing. There's so much more they could add other than more combat-related stuff. And honestly, from the recent polls and uproar, it's clear that a large proportion of the players don't want more combat forced upon them. But it's happening anyway.
 

Ren Garris

Ren Garris
Since so many want the combat, I think they are giving them just that.

But with the long term goals and direction of the game, it's inevitable that they will (eventually) flesh out the more 'cerebral' aspects of the game. I like the pew pew as much has the next, but in moderation. I play the game in quarters:
Combat, Trade, Transportation Legal/Illegal, Drunken Debauchery in Zero G.

So if you will excuse me, I need to go PWN SUM NOOBS WIT LAZORS!! :D
 

AdmiralFloof

AdmiralFloof
Welp you might be true. We're gonna have Ship Launched Fighters, for more combat. Then Multi-Crew, for more combat unless you have friends to multi-crew your trade run lol
 

hunvagy

hunvagy
Susanna said:
Ok, another contentious issue... And I may be speaking out of turn here as I haven't visited Tod the Blaster yet...

It's indicative that the engineer exploration mods from Felicity and Elvira are both hard to obtain while the combat mods from Tod the Blaster are much easier (at least in principle). This indicates to me that the devs want to butter up to the testosterone junkies a lot more than the exploration/trader types playing the game by making these more readily obtainable...
Click to expand...

Easy? I had my FSD range increase 3 before I got Tod to rank 3 reputation. The main ingredient for the good weapon mods are things you salvage by assaulting ground bases. The things you need for a new FSD range increase you get by sitting around outside a station and scanning high wakes. Please tell me how the weapon unlock is easier. Same goes for the shield modifications from Elvira. The needed materials for a low emission shield are easy to obtain, and even the commodity required can just be bought off a market in federation space, near Deciat.

And of course let's not forget the whopping 6% chance of getting an actual experimental attack on a weapon, shall we? So, no it's not easier.

Also labelling people tesosterone junkies just because they enjoy the combat aspect is quite rude.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Susanna said:
I suspect that the mods of this forum for example are nearly all from the testosterone junkies faction of ED players.
Click to expand...

Phew! Thanks! At last, someone not accusing us of being carebears!

Now i'm confused though... whether i'm a carebear or a testosterone junky.
 

Alex Brentnall

Alex Brentnall
Spoiler alert - I don't know what I'm talking about.

But, have you considered that the relative ease of modding weapons and unlocking those engineers is because you can have up to 8/9 weapons on a ship yet no ship has more than 1 drive/FSD?
Just my first thought, as the spoiler says I may have the wrong end of the entirely wrong stick but that's my first instinct.
 

Susanna

Susanna
hunvagy said:
Easy? I had my FSD range increase 3 before I got Tod to rank 3 reputation. The main ingredient for the good weapon mods are things you salvage by assaulting ground bases. The things you need for a new FSD range increase you get by sitting around outside a station and scanning high wakes. Please tell me how the weapon unlock is easier. Same goes for the shield modifications from Elvira. The needed materials for a low emission shield are easy to obtain, and even the commodity required can just be bought off a market in federation space, near Deciat.

And of course let's not forget the whopping 6% chance of getting an actual experimental attack on a weapon, shall we? So, no it's not easier.

Also labelling people tesosterone junkies just because they enjoy the combat aspect is quite rude.
Click to expand...

Far Cope!

As I stated at the beginning I may be speaking out of turn as I have not visited Tod The Blaster yet to know what he wants you to so for his toys. I thought it was a case of handing in combat bonds... relatively easy I thought (couple of hours in a Nav Beacon or less in a RES/CZ. I had no idea that you need to do settlement assault missions! (that rules those mods out for me then and saves me the bother of trying to get them because as far as I'm aware, there are no 'clean' [i.e. none bounty raising] ground based missions - please correct me if I'm wrong on that!). So yes, in that context - the FSD/Thruster mods are probably easier to obtain.

My apologies for the use of the word 'Testosterone Junkies', as has been already pointed out to me - Adrenaline Junkies might be more correct...
 
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Vasious

Vasious
Susanna said:
Far Cope!

As I stated at the beginning I may be speaking out of turn as I have not visited Tod The Blaster yet to know what he wants you to so for his toys. I thought it was a case of handing in combat bonds... relatively easy I thought (couple of hours in a Nav Beacon or less in a RES/CZ. I had no idea that you need to do settlement assault missions! (that rules those mods out for me then and saves me the bother of trying to get them because as far as I'm aware, there are no 'clean' [i.e. none bounty raising] ground based missions - please correct me if I'm wrong on that!). So yes, in that context - the FSD/Thruster mods are probably easier to obtain.

My apologies for the use of the word 'Testosterone Junkies', as has been already pointed out to me - Adrenaline Junkies might be more correct...
Click to expand...

Ground bases can be own by Pirate factions and thus lawless jurisdictions 1000 km around them.

Also studies suggest it is estrogen level that dictate aggression and territorial natures.
 

hunvagy

hunvagy
Susanna said:
Far Cope!

As I stated at the beginning I may be speaking out of turn as I have not visited Tod The Blaster yet to know what he wants you to so for his toys. I thought it was a case of handing in combat bonds... relatively easy I thought (couple of hours in a Nav Beacon or less in a RES/CZ. I had no idea that you need to do settlement assault missions! (that rules those mods out for me then and saves me the bother of trying to get them because as far as I'm aware, there are no 'clean' [i.e. none bounty raising] ground based missions - please correct me if I'm wrong on that!). So yes, in that context - the FSD/Thruster mods are probably easier to obtain.

My apologies for the use of the word 'Testosterone Junkies', as has been already pointed out to me - Adrenaline Junkies might be more correct...
Click to expand...

Bounties only unlocks him as an available engineer, just like the meta-alloy unlocks Felicity. After that, every engineer has crafting blueprints and requirements, which differ from item to item. Some weapon modifications are easy, like sturdy mount, but the ones that influence combat (overcharged, focus, short range blaster etc) sometimes require interesting things. One of these is different types of firmware, which are either mission rewards, or almost exclusive to planetside data points. Public ones can be scanned without reprecussions, but I guess the chance of a good one from there is a lot lower. Private data points though turn the installation hostile, since you are effectively stealing. And most of the time it actually requires to get from point to point quite fast, as only a completed scan sequence will reward you.
 
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