Powerplay The future: rapid turnover of small powers?

[Rubbernuke]

Now we know about collapse, where does this leave the game, smaller powers and players?

The galaxy is full, and space is tight. Going by the rules, the bottom three is a death sentence, as powers can be killed off really easily. Once the first power goes, how quickly do you think the second or third will go? Will we see a stratification of large powers and almost temporary smaller ones?

 

[drhay53]

it's been 52 weeks and no powers have been killed off. This isn't a new thing, is it? I mean behind the scenes hasn't it always been like this since PP started?

 

[playzintraffic]

No. FD admitted that they never implemented collapse.

 

[Floyd Bennett]

The bottom 3 powers will always become prime undermining targets. If they can be locked in turmoil, then they will collapse and space will be freed up.

I am afraid this will happen very quickly.

As long as a power is in top 7, it will be in no danger. So Mahon, Hudson and ALD will be nigh untouchable, since standing is calculated largely based on systems owned.

 

[Olivia Vespera]

It's a random chance they'll enter collapse in the bottom 3 without expansion which increases after each subsequent week of non expansion.

 

[Apos]

That's probably because smaller powers usually don't take advantage of their own strengths either.

Power play is meant to be a game of conflict. If the small powers only kneel before the Feds or the Imps instead of trying to damage them, then they will eventually fall. However, their lower overheads means that some offensive expansions can actually be a much higher investment to them than it is for larger powers, which have to wait for the other power to shed off systems before the initial system becomes profitable.

It is a game of opportunity. Delaine can sneak an offensive expansion on Patreus now that they are occupied with the Feds or they can join attacking the Feds themselves so that they shed systems near them which they would be able to snatch since the Feds would still be occupied with Mahon and the Imperials. Antal has indeed taken advantage of Sirius shedding systems to the Federal snipes and benefited most from that situation. And that's what PP is.

And if smaller powers team up against the bigger ones, then the bigger ones will eventually fall. It's a matter of whether they are up to it or they tremble at the thought of Hudson looking funny at them while he slowly assimilates them individually.

 

[Jaggedmallard]

That's probably because smaller powers usually don't take advantage of their own strengths either.

Power play is meant to be a game of conflict. If the small powers only kneel before the Feds or the Imps instead of trying to damage them, then they will eventually fall. However, their lower overheads means that some offensive expansions can actually be a much higher investment to them than it is for larger powers, which have to wait for the other power to shed off systems before the initial system becomes profitable.

It is a game of opportunity. Delaine can sneak an offensive expansion on Patreus now that they are occupied with the Feds or they can join attacking the Feds themselves so that they shed systems near them which they would be able to snatch since the Feds would still be occupied with Mahon and the Imperials. Antal has indeed taken advantage of Sirius shedding systems to the Federal snipes and benefited most from that situation. And that's what PP is.

And if smaller powers team up against the bigger ones, then the bigger ones will eventually fall. It's a matter of whether they are up to it or they tremble at the thought of Hudson looking funny at them while he slowly assimilates them individually.

The issue is the smaller powers don't want the entirety of Imperial, Federal or Alliance space hitting them as its a fight they just cannot win. Sure they have less they need to fortify but if they need to fortify most of their systems every week to avoid heavy turmoil they're going to run out of cash and morale. Even with favourable triggers the smaller powers will struggle keeping their expansions going if they've got a full scale Fed or Imperial undermining effort ongoing, Mahon has one of the largest and most dedicated cargo pushing playerbases in the game and even they don't get every expansion through when up again Federal undermining, nevermind a small little RP power like Archon or Antal

 

[Apos]

The issue is the smaller powers don't want the entirety of Imperial, Federal or Alliance space hitting them as its a fight they just cannot win. Sure they have less they need to fortify but if they need to fortify most of their systems every week to avoid heavy turmoil they're going to run out of cash and morale. Even with favourable triggers the smaller powers will struggle keeping their expansions going if they've got a full scale Fed or Imperial undermining effort ongoing, Mahon has one of the largest and most dedicated cargo pushing playerbases in the game and even they don't get every expansion through when up again Federal undermining, nevermind a small little RP power like Archon or Antal

You can't be a pacifist and expand endlessly while also avoiding conflict. It's just impossible in PP.

Additionally, you still consider the power to be functioning alone, as if the Federals will oppose the expansion no matter what. I said that the power should be taking advantage of opportunity, not going smashing against the wall.

Let's take for example the current situation, where the Feds are against the Alliance and the Imperials together. Both the Imperials and Mahon do offensive expansions against Hudson/Winters. If Hudson has 2 expansions on their space from Mahon, 2 from ALD and 1 from Patreus, they got their hands full and they have to focus on it. This means that if Antal, Delaine or Sirius try to get a system that contests 1-2 systems, it is a lesser evil and will be ignored, because they have bigger fish to fry.

Same goes if Winters and Hudson has offensive expansions on Mahon. Once again, a matter of opportunity. That's the whole point, to act when they CAN'T throw their entirety on you.

Patreus is a also a fairly small power in terms of supporters and they have indeed managed to get an offensive expansion in just a couple weeks ago. So there's your example that what I'm saying is indeed possible. And that wasn't even a sneak attempt of 1-2 systems contested.

 

[Rubbernuke]

My fear: bottom 3 will just be the easy road to new systems. It will be easier for nearby big powers to pop the smaller ones and harvest the systems than fight over the scraps available. If it only takes three cycles to topple a power, thats only one more than the normal prep > expand process.

The new 'meta':

Really big powers with > 80 systems and really small powers < 30 systems. The big powers have the best CC generators, and the bottom powers use the CC shield from having few systems as protection (for a while). Mid sized powers are impossible due to the overhead calculation ramping up to system 55. This prevents small powers ever becoming large, forever as large powers just dominate.

 

[withnail]

I am sure the Alliance would like e independents to attack the Feds with their Imperial allies.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I am sure the Alliance would like e independents to attack the Feds with their Imperial allies.

The trouble with this is how do we know FD will not pull another CC formula adjustment? When powers conspired during House of Cards to do just that the rules changed.

Small powers will be forever defending as attack is unthinkable. ALD and Hudson are huge, and could easily block expansions of other powers. They only need to do it for a few weeks and that opponent is gone. Utopia is the size of *one* player group, and I assume the same is true for Archon-now we know the margin for collapse is razor thin, turmoil is almost a guaranteed death. Dare they risk it all for such a small return? It seems we will be pushed into the fire.

 

[Apos]

I am sure the Alliance would like e independents to attack the Feds with their Imperial allies.

I'm sure the Independents will enjoy getting assimilated by Hudson when their turn comes, but no, like I mentioned, Mahon would be just as a valid target for what I'm proposing, assuming the time is right and we can't oppose it. If a power thinks that helping the Feds take down Mahon will allow them to survive, be my guest.

However staying out of things, even though possible temporarily, is not an easy way for powers to stay afloat. And this can be observed on the minor conflicts that Antal and Delaine have on their preparations. You can't avoid conflict.

The only viable way for a power to function like that would be to expand to only one system every 3 weeks just to avoid collapse. If a playerbase wants more from their power (which we all do), they have to take part in conflict sooner or later.

 

[withnail]

Ha. I agree, conflict is required. The Kumo are ok with that and what ever happens from here on in will happen.

 

[fergal]

The trouble with this is how do we know FD will not pull another CC formula adjustment? When powers conspired during House of Cards to do just that the rules changed.

Small powers will be forever defending as attack is unthinkable. ALD and Hudson are huge, and could easily block expansions of other powers. They only need to do it for a few weeks and that opponent is gone. Utopia is the size of *one* player group, and I assume the same is true for Archon-now we know the margin for collapse is razor thin, turmoil is almost a guaranteed death. Dare they risk it all for such a small return? It seems we will be pushed into the fire.

The only real question is if this will motivate any in the bottom 3 to attack the next 3, to try to swap positions.

If you are in the bottom 3, and must constantly expand, you will make your starting balance worse and worse until you collapse due to lack of fortification, when not even attacked, basically where Aisling is at.

The new power will find it very difficult to ever expand enough to move up to 7th, which right now would take having over 60 systems.

The best chance Patreus or Antal have is to attack Aisling or Sirius to try to push them into the bottom 3, but I doubt this will happen.

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Ha. I agree, conflict is required. The Kumo are ok with that and what ever happens from here on in will happen.

Having a collapse mechanic that is known by all, and will be implemented when anyone triggers it is all that anyone should want.

It is interesting that Delaine, Torval, Patreus and Antal have all met the start of collapse requirements at least once each.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The only real question is if this will motivate any in the bottom 3 to attack the next 3, to try to swap positions.

If you are in the bottom 3, and must constantly expand, you will make your starting balance worse and worse until you collapse due to lack of fortification, when not even attacked, basically where Aisling is at.

The new power will find it very difficult to ever expand enough to move up to 7th, which right now would take having over 60 systems.

The best chance Patreus or Antal have is to attack Aisling or Sirius to try to push them into the bottom 3, but I doubt this will happen.

Each power is now the same: we all have to kill or be killed. We might as well all have the same avatar picture as each character is meaningless. You can't be neutral, and you can't be nice. Either you crush someone else or be on the end of the stick yourself. Add to that being trapped in the bottom 3 with no escape and you have the two tier system that will never change.

No-one will attack Sirius because of the discount, and Aisling has immense amounts of players that can absorb any attack. Attack is either forcing turmoil (difficult between similar sized powers) or opposing expansion (easy).

 

[withnail]

Let's not forget that the collapse mechanic is daft. A power that does not expand and reacts defensively is not really collapsing. The mechanic is in there to force a collapse.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Let's not forget that the collapse mechanic is daft. A power that does not expand and reacts defensively is not really collapsing. The mechanic is in there to force a collapse.

And thats the other thing that gets me. We can't act responsibly, or actually use strategy. Brute force only scales with numbers.

 

[Goose4291]

My fear: bottom 3 will just be the easy road to new systems. It will be easier for nearby big powers to pop the smaller ones and harvest the systems than fight over the scraps available. If it only takes three cycles to topple a power, thats only one more than the normal prep > expand process.

The new 'meta':

That's exactly what is going to happen, without a doubt.

Why would the Feds/Imps wail on each other week in week out for meagre gains when they can kerb stomp some new fledgling power into submission?

 

[Rubbernuke]

That's exactly what is going to happen, without a doubt.

Why would the Feds/Imps wail on each other week in week out for meagre gains when they can kerb stomp some new fledgling power into submission?

The *only* reason not to do that would be RP reasons, but since we can't expand this aspect one group is only differentiated from another by size. Being a peaceful neutral power is not an option, as it just means you are hit last.

 

[fergal]

The *only* reason not to do that would be RP reasons, but since we can't expand this aspect one group is only differentiated from another by size. Being a peaceful neutral power is not an option, as it just means you are hit last.

The powers that can actually be collapsed right now are Archon, Antal, Patreus, Aisling, Sirius and Torval.
Mahon, ALD, Winters and Hudson have too many systems and too many players right now to be made to collapse.

It would be interesting to see if Sirius was put in a position that they might collapse, if players would join up and help defend the 15% discounts.