The last CG ?

(I already asked this question in the PP2 thread, but didn't see an answer.)

In my opinion after PP2 most of the people will play in POWER. And I don't think it's possible to combine that with CG.
So I think we will soon have the last CG in Elite. And I don't believe that Shinki's defense was the last CG.
 
Just as the Thargoid War mostly (though of course, not entirely) removed AX CGs from the game, it's certainly possible that Frontier are trying to make trade/bounty/war CGs similarly obsolete with PP2 by providing a better alternative for "do stuff -> get results". And Frontier have certainly not held many CGs at all for the last two years and might be glad to be able to stop.

But I don't see why PP2 would be specifically incompatible with CGs - they can be held in neutral systems, or on the other side have an inter-power war as the conflict, just as now.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
For those who choose not to pledge to a Power (as doing so will make their ship a potential target for over 90% of those pledged to Powerplay 2.0 [assuming equal distribution of pledges to each of the twelve Powers] and for the NPCs of the other eleven Powers) it would almost certainly be disappointing for them if CGs were removed.
 
Nah, you worry too much. I think most people will merely see that they have to choose between powerplay and CGs. Then look at the new reward system. Then for a limited time pledge to one power, rack up the level to be able to buy all rewards and then leave again.

So hey, they eliminated the whole process of people rotating through all powers to get all the gear and cut it short to people giving up on it much quicker now than before. Progress!
 
Nah, you worry too much. I think most people will merely see that they have to choose between powerplay and CGs. Then look at the new reward system. Then for a limited time pledge to one power, rack up the level to be able to buy all rewards and then leave again.

So hey, they eliminated the whole process of people rotating through all powers to get all the gear and cut it short to people giving up on it much quicker now than before. Progress!
I understand playing for POWER will give extra rewards for completing any missions. And the higher the rank in strength the greater the reward. Are you willing to take a long time to gain rank and then drop it for CG and then gain it again?
 
Considering the various CG types:
- trade/rares/salvage: you attract supercruise pirate enemies anyway because you're carrying cargo, and those don't stop people doing trade CGs
- bounty: you're deliberately going out to shoot stuff anyway
- war: you're deliberately going out to shoot stuff anyway, and it's pretty tough for an NPC, but on the other hand bonds aren't lost on death
- AX: you're deliberately going out to shoot stuff anyway, and again bonds aren't lost on death so if they do somehow teleport you to the CG station no harm done. Or take an Apex for the hand-in.
- research: collection is generally done in uninhabited space, self-destructing to return to the station can be "optimal" anyway as you don't need to carry cargo so it's not like a big deal if they do blow you up
- exploration: okay, finally one where combat is neither expected nor desirable, but even if they don't pick a neutral system to host it, you can park up in a neutral system, Apex to the CG station in complete safety, then call your ship so you can get back to the docking bay for the final sale.

I don't see that doing a CG with the occasional hostile Power NPC after you as well would be all that big an extra hassle in any of those cases - either a bit of combat/running away is something you're already set up for because you're doing a CG, or they're trivial to bypass because you don't need to fly your own ship in the CG system.

What are people expecting here, that the Power NPCs proactively defending their space will be so tough, numerous, and good at winning interdictions that players don't need to defend their friendly systems because the NPCs will do it all for them?
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Not so much just doing the occasional CG while pledged - more that being pledged at all may well increase attention, wanted or otherwise, from most other players who are pledged to different Powers and those Powers' NPCs - as Powerplay 2.0 seems, from what has been said so far, to be "simply play the game while pledged". Noting that in the Type 8 stream Zac explained that while the Python MkII had been created as Frontier "know a lot of players are into combat", the Type-8 was created as Frontier know that "there's a lot of players that don't engage with combat at all".

Then there's the hope of some players that the Powerplay 2.0 NPCs that have already been mentioned will indeed be proactively defending their space - specifically against pledged players that they can't / don't instance with.
 
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(I already asked this question in the PP2 thread, but didn't see an answer.)

In my opinion after PP2 most of the people will play in POWER. And I don't think it's possible to combine that with CG.
So I think we will soon have the last CG in Elite. And I don't believe that Shinki's defense was the last CG.
I think you overestimate the amount of folks that do PP, CGs are very much here to stay.

O7
 
I understand playing for POWER will give extra rewards for completing any missions. And the higher the rank in strength the greater the reward. Are you willing to take a long time to gain rank and then drop it for CG and then gain it again?
????????

Extra rewards? what are these?

Credits - got too many already

Mats - most of my bins are full already

Bigger guns - the only weapons on most of my ships are mining lasers.

Some of us play for FUN.
 
I was listening to the 505th Lave Radio podcast the other day and a legitimate fear is that a friendly community event (like the recent Llave station get together) will be swarmed by murderous PP 2.0 faction security police because a few participating commanders have pledged to a hostile power. It's kinda awful to think about.
 
????????

Extra rewards? what are these?

Credits - got too many already

Mats - most of my bins are full already

Bigger guns - the only weapons on most of my ships are mining lasers.

Some of us play for FUN.
I'm not sure but I think it's going to be more ARXs.

As for, for example, trade targets, they will have to be conducted only in systems without power.
It's not like they're going to turn off the PPs of the counter forces in that system.
 
have no interest in power play, and it remains untried. love the non-Thargoid CGs. esp the bounty-hunting ones... used to enjoy the trade and exploring ones, they were fun. and way back when, they really paid well, as a noob, it massively helped me out early on so i could buy stuff and build my char up. i don't need the money now and easy enough to build a stack anyway, but those days are missed.. maybe that was Sally's job when she worked here. well, that's about the time i noticed CG behaviour change anyway.
 
Just as the Thargoid War mostly (though of course, not entirely) removed AX CGs from the game, it's certainly possible that Frontier are trying to make trade/bounty/war CGs similarly obsolete with PP2 by providing a better alternative for "do stuff -> get results". And Frontier have certainly not held many CGs at all for the last two years and might be glad to be able to stop.

But I don't see why PP2 would be specifically incompatible with CGs - they can be held in neutral systems, or on the other side have an inter-power war as the conflict, just as now.
CGs always just seemed like a kludge.. players wanted a "bigger thing" to participate in (which, in a game pitched like Elite, makes me eyebrow, but anyway...)... so we got CGs.

Tldr; cgs are an unnecessary manual inject into a game which should lean into its procedural generation.

Sure, they tied the outcomes to one- shot things like new stations or narrative outcomes... but at least for... i dunno... "first-gen" CGs, the activities were indistinct from standard game activities, which is the draw i never understood especially in the context of the broader BGS; why do something that railroads you into repeating a single activity ad-nausem with comparable reward to any standard activity... when you could simply do the same thing, with more diversity and generally more reward?

So then we started getting things like one- shot modules and stuff. Which begs the question; what were tech brokers and engineers for again? I'll come back to this at the end.

Then things like trade CGs got a buff to profit margins, which is a fairly last- resort incentive... but anyway...

Then we got all the new BGS mechanics, but things like war CGs stuck around with "bond counting" which definitely got gamed where cz locations weren't favourable and parallel wars existed.

Thargoid War made things a bit more interesting and diverse, but it's failing was really around balance, and turning things like tissue sampling into pure quantity based grinds.

The biggest issue with CGs is it bound FD to a manual- inject role within a procedural universe, which is always a recipe for disaster... because you're fighting against your own creations to draw players away to different activities, which is just bad design.

If your procedural mechanics are good, lean into them... make that the focus of the activity and surface things that embrace it, not fight it.

CGs would be much better done as a player-inject, putting down a sum of money to "incentivise" player activity through a 10-20% addition to payouts for particular activities done, maybe in support of a faction for some BGS effect. In that way, this disperses these opportunities across the galaxy, and gives players a much greater range of time/ resource- constrainted activities.

Meanwhile, FD do the big, infrequent injects. Big galaxy- changing events, or even just ramping up particular random occurrences to be more common and drive player activity interest in the area.

As for those one- shot rewards, usually that sort of thing would be redily available in some sort of major event, and then available in substantially slower time by doing lots of interaction with the relevant engineer or techbroker, as the relevant "gold rush" event dries up.
 
(I already asked this question in the PP2 thread, but didn't see an answer.)

In my opinion after PP2 most of the people will play in POWER. And I don't think it's possible to combine that with CG.
So I think we will soon have the last CG in Elite. And I don't believe that Shinki's defense was the last CG.
I'm pretty sure that if I couldn't do CGs once pledged to a power, no shiny modules will ever be able to tempt me to pledge.
 
I'm pretty sure that if I couldn't do CGs once pledged to a power, no shiny modules will ever be able to tempt me to pledge.
Different people have different priorities. Now at least the road is open to the FSD SCO version v1, specially designed.
 
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