The Layman's Explanation of why we have a Top Speed

TLDR; Long boring RP explanation how the "science" of FSD drives causes top speed limitation.


Early in human space flight and when humans still had no idea what dark matter was, humans accidentally discovered how to interact with dark matter, setting the foundations for the Frame Shift Drive.


See ancient archives at : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RF_resonant_cavity_thruster


At the time, the EM drive seemed to violate the laws of physics as it generated thrust without seemingly interacting with any matter.


What it did interact with, was Dark Matter Quantum Foam (DMQF). We still don't exactly understand how this interaction work to this day, but we do understand the effects of the interaction really well and can control it fairly presicely.


The Reactor core, thrusters and FSD are an integrated system that interacts with the DMQF to provide all modes of travel. The reactor rips the Hydrogen apart sub-atomically and generates a lot of power and a field that interacts with the DMQF:


During FTL travel the FSD interacts with DMQF with the reactor field to stretch time space in front of us and collapse if back behind us in order to make us travel apparently faster than the speed of light to observers outside of our reference frame. To jump long distances, the FSD in effect stretches out space time in all directions and then collapses the one side of it all in one go, in effect catapulting the ship in a direction with the DMQF acting like an elastic band. The detailed working of this is a topic for another day.


The thrusters system "pushes" against the DMQF by using taking the reactor field and directing it out in a direction through "nozzles". The nozzles can precisely direct the DMQF stretching and what is left of the Hydrogen is ejected out of the nozzles at relativistic speeds. Thus these thrusters can generate tons of thrust while only consuming very little fuel in the process (and while being fairly small). Movement here is created in part by time space streching and in part by thrust from the thrusters.


The one disadvantage of this is, that the central "bubble" of DMQF compression (that is directed by the nozzles) is a source of drag to the surrounding non-compressed DMQF.


So, in normal travel mode the interactions with the DMQF is analogous to a rocket engine moving through air, with the body causing drag, and the nozzle end giving thrust. As long as the DMQF compression bubble is active, you can generate lots of thrust in a direction, but the faster you move through the DMQF field, the more drag you will encounter.


DMQF interacts with gravity and is in effect "swept along" by large masses. Thus, the DMQF will always seem to move along with a heavy body. That is why drag is always relative to a local gravity well and thus, the "top speed" is relative to that local gravity well (that is also why speeds vary wildly when frame shifting past heavy bodies). This also explains why heavier ships tend to be slower as their own hull mass causes the compressed DMQF bubble to have even more drag with the surrounding DMQF. Some of this can be overcome with better compression and direction, but it's a diminishing returns problem which means that it becomes really hard to go much faster than about 500m/s. Faster speeds are possible, but then it becomes a serious tradeoff between the mass of the thing you want to move and the size of it's FSD core.


The interaction with gravity wells is also the reason why commercial drives jump from star to star - the ship is "thrown" in the direction of a star (gravity well) where the gravity well will naturally pull it out of jump speeds to normal FSD speeds).


When you disable a ship's flight assist, you also disable the DMQF compression and the ship can drift freely under regular newtonian physics. If a ship had ancient chemical rocket thrusters, you would have been able to accelerate it to higher speeds than the "top speed". The problem is that regular thrusters EAT fuel. The thrust needed to accelerate a 100t ship significantly would eat through tons of fuel in a manner of seconds.
(a 300t cobra burning through it's 16t of hydrogen fuel and 2t of oxygen in the cargo will only gain a few tens of m/s before running out of fuel).


For typical ship design it is just not seen as worth it and the speed limit is accepted as you have regular frame shift travel if you need to go further or faster.


This is my attempt at trying to explain in layman terms why ships have a "top speed". There are of course much brighter commanders under us which may be able to point out some flaws in my explanations and any comments are welcome.


EDIT : clarified the interaction between reactor, thrusters and FSD and that it is an intergrated system.
 
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Nice try, but in ED, a burst fire extinguisher wouldn't be able to accelerate.

Space flight is supposed to be the core game, but is totally precluded by FD's insane design decision to measure speed as an absolute quantity relative to coordinate space.

In previous Elites you're free to move, and can take off from the ground and fly directly into orbit and beyond, reaching 50 km/s within minutes... Seamlessly, fluidly.. THAT is spaceflight. That, is fun.

ED is just a monstrous abomination. A spaceflight game that doesn't like or allow the most basic fundaments of spaceflight. Give it full throttle and you're just stuck there, immobile.

Not allowed to accelerate, not allowed to yaw or rotate freely... What else is there to do? Supercruise is just an annoying and totally unfulfilling 2nd rate alternative, that I have zero interest in..

No spaceflight, no game..
 
A lot of effort put into 'explaining' 'science' that's not existing; this is a pure game design issue fullstop. SC is one of the most boring aspects of ED and has been discussed ad nauseam.
 
Nice try, but in ED, a burst fire extinguisher wouldn't be able to accelerate.

Space flight is supposed to be the core game, but is totally precluded by FD's insane design decision to measure speed as an absolute quantity relative to coordinate space.

In previous Elites you're free to move, and can take off from the ground and fly directly into orbit and beyond, reaching 50 km/s within minutes... Seamlessly, fluidly.. THAT is spaceflight. That, is fun.

ED is just a monstrous abomination. A spaceflight game that doesn't like or allow the most basic fundaments of spaceflight. Give it full throttle and you're just stuck there, immobile.

Not allowed to accelerate, not allowed to yaw or rotate freely... What else is there to do? Supercruise is just an annoying and totally unfulfilling 2nd rate alternative, that I have zero interest in..

No spaceflight, no game..

But if there wasn't supercruise, there would have been no way to force the game to be online-only! At least, not a way that could be hashed out in a lunch break.


EDIT: Lunch break with FD
 
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As an Elite player since The Speccy, and having sunk many many hours into Frontier (and, to a lesser degree, First Encounter)...

Elite - Max Speed, and Torus Jump Drive to cut down on the time between jumping into a System, and getting to the Station
Frontier and First Encounters - Newtonian Physics, and Time Compression to get over the mind boggingly dull time you'd have. Torus Jump Drive found to cause 'dangerous levels of radiation' or some such in the systems they were used in, hence being banned.
ED - Max Speed, and Frame Shift Drive to cut down on the time between jumping into a System and getting to a Station/Planet/etc.
 
But if there wasn't supercruise, there would have been no way to force the game to be online-only! At least, not a way that could be hashed out in a lunch break.


EDIT: Lunch break with FD

Hashed out by agency staff on a ciggy break would at least be some excuse..

I was among the first (in the public forums) to request something like supercruise - originally we were looking at microjumps to get about in-system.

Supercruise is fine (or at least, on the right track) as an alternative to Stardreamer / time acceleration.

As a practical means for getting between planets etc., i'd imagine i could find it quite enjoyable, when it finally gets an autopilot and decent external views.

But as a complete replacement for, and sole alternative to spaceflight, it's terrible. It's just no substitute for real velocity, momentum and kinetic energy. A woefully inadequate flight experience, that doesn't offer any of the thrills of actual spaceflight.

Taking off from land in FFE, flying up through the haze and out into open space, watching your velocity counter steadily rising.. You can fly without needing time acceleration, from Earth to the Moon in about half an hour in any average ship. That's a great half hour play sesh; speeding up, coasting a while then decelerating, sliding it into an easy orbit and final approach.. you can do this today in FFE or FE2 or Pioneer.

And it's fun. You don't need a mission or package on board as a reason to want to fly - the sheer freedom of movement and expression is the reward in itself, getting paid is just a bonus.

So, while i disagree that time acceleration is fundamentally incompatible with a MP game (i believe it could actually reduce player dispersion, FWIW), i could bare the clunky awkwardness of Galactic Mean Time, the droning tedium of supercruise and the spartan insular BGS and boorishly-ill conceived "missions board".. i could cheerily hum my way through all of it, if only i was allowed freedom of movement as pilot of my ship.

Real-time is fine. Having every target star repeatedly rammed down my throat, i can shrug off. I could grit my teeth and remain unflappable through every clumsy "interdiction", every ringing lockup on every possible transition, with extra loading screens thrown in for good measure. All of that i could endure, for a good half-hour or so of unrestrained freedom of motion.

Freedom to fly the ship. Freedom to engage in combat with other ships. Not fumble through some choreographed short-bus 'Biggles' routine. Thrust in one direction, turn and fire in another. Freely accelerating and decelerating wherever and whenever you want. Combat is fast and furious in FFE. If you wanna slow it down, use a weaker laser. But your only manoeuvering limits lie with your own imagination and spatial awareness / orientation skills.

For all its other compromises and shortcuts, the game could still be totally epic if only FD could see the light of reason and switch to relative velocity deltas with client-side momentum tracking. A few hundred meters per second relative max velocity is more than enough to accomodate uncapped free flight - bandwidth actually decreasing with rising velocity.

I tried to play ED again last night, but it's like being stuck staring at an Elite screen-saver. "Motion" in ED = throwing "space dust" at the screen while making weird groaning noises.

And all the fanbois sing: "OMG it's SO realistc!" ... "space flight is SUPPOSED to be boring, so ED is basically a sim!" ... "actual spaceflight is far too dangerous - what if there was a crash?" ... etc. etc.

I am certain that if only this game only had basic space flight, everyone would be far too busy to even file bug reports..

But without it, the whole premise is blown.

The only aspect of spaceflght i can recapture in Elite: Dangerous is sitting there pitching and rolling, watching the skybox rotate. It's a very nice skybox. But if i can't freely move through space then that's all it is. Just rolling around, motionless, with or without stabilisation.

Spaceflight in FE2 / FFE is so much more than that. The biggest thrill, and the thing that adds thrill to everything else, is seamless acceleration. That's it. That's the basic "spaceflight" experience. That's the decisive, most meaningful distinction between a flight sim and a spaceflight game:

- Play a flight sim and you might top out at 70,000 ft and Mach 2, but staring into the blackness above you, you know you're stuck in a flight sim and getting any higher or faster requires the next step up, a different kind of game for a grander, unconstrained flight experience - full, natural motion in 6DoF, freedom from Earth's bounds and the final tethers of aerodynamics and friction.

With a speed limit - a space speed limit (a speed limit, in space!) - any space game is singularly failing to deliver on its central overriding premise. Stuck in some limbo, halfway between Chuck Yeager and Aquaman - only the former's probably faster and the latter, more manoeuverable..

Last night i considered maybe trading in the Asp for something smaller and faster... but i went to the shipyard, scrolled through the sequence of generic orange blocks, wincing at the spec sheets for every single one.. (as an aside; at least show us the individual prospective offerings, FD, like any proper forecourt would (as FE2 and FFE did) - paintwork, hull condition, additional fixings or lack thereof, all the things that add character and might seal a sale, but instead all i''m shown is a scrolling endless sequence of orange blocky things, with nothing to sell them but their bizzarely-presented and exasperatingly pathetic performance stats.)

None of the ships on offer are going to allow me to indulge in even the simplest pleasures of free flight, so what's the point? I could trade down to an Eagle that can pitch slightly faster, so i can rotate the skybox a bit quicker, but only when pitching. That's not really selling much to me though.

Without the basic ability to move freely in open space, the game's a contradiction, a bluff. None of the other tangential stuff has meaningful context. SpaceEngine has skybox accuracy. FE2 / FFE and Pioneer have more than enough, but it's completely peripheral to the visceral thrill of free spaceflight.


Every attempt to rationalise the speed limit is an attempt to rationalise the evisceration of the game, in the denial of its central premise.

A space speed limit is diametrically opposed to everything a sandbox space game like Elite stands for. Trying to rationalise a spaceflight game without spaceflight is just totally redundant sophistry - it hardly provides much succor when your most basic expectations of spaceflight remain frustrated. If i can't simply accelerate in open space then there is no fun to be had.

I wish i could just hang there, turreting motionless in the middle of nowhere, hopelessly marooned but for the FSD, and convince myself that i'm really zooming through deep space. "Wow, check the space dust - i must be really shifting!".. Like all the other players here seem to be able to. Or that actual freedom to move would be too dangerous, or unjust, or no fun.

Just skip thru this half hour play sesh of FFE from the other night - check the pacing, and note how velocity is a central yet incidental part of the seamless experience. The most tedious 5 minutes here was when i couldn't remember the location of a certain anarchy on the galaxy map..

[video=youtube_share;N37Hcvy1iSA]https://youtu.be/N37Hcvy1iSA[/video]

Compare that pacing to the clunky fractured BDSM session that is half an hour in ED. There IS no rationlaising it away - Elite without space flight is a broken premise..
 
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I think you should try Evochron Legacy. Much better flight model. In fact many things are better, but the flight model is so much better.
 
I have started playing Elite on a ZX Spectrun 48k and was hooked. I played both the FFEs and really enjoyed it. But I'm also a great Falcon 4 fan.

The sad reality is, that people that enjoy FFE and hyper complex flight simulators are few and far apart.

I can 100% understand why the speed limiting mechanic is there, though I would probably also have prefered a more freeform universe.

As a software developer, I can also understand the need for loading screens - escpecially in an MMO type game. It's just not possible to host that many people on one instance. Even EVE Online which have one massive universe, makes use of instances for every solar system. And they pay the price when thousands of players decide to shoot each other in the face.

What I see in this thread is a lot of irritating "I am very imporant to me and want what I want and if I don't get it, FD sucks" with no attempt at being reasonable and trying to understand what the challenges are in writing a game like ED.

And you know what, there are TONS of other games out there - each with it's own approach. If you don't like this one, play one that suits your preferences.

But what do I know, I'm just a 70's kid.
 
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