The Mechanics of Ramming

[WalterHWhite]

Ramming is used in combat and that's fair enough (not seen anyone complain about it, yet).

As for the mechanics of it, it seems that "more mass = win" is pretty much the only logic I've seen applied to it.

So,
1. Do you think that's reasonable, whether it is or isn't the case?
2. Any other experiences of how it works? Point of impact, speed, shape of both ships involved...
3. Does ship type/shape matter? Armour type?
4. Is it bugged?

It's not something I've really tried, my only IMO is that it's not simply about mass.

 

[dr.zli]

look into that "5 mil credit bounty" thread, guy got rammed by a clipper who had 70% shield, 100% hull. He was in a viper wit 20% hull. Clipper exploded, viper was unharmed.

 

[WalterHWhite]

Read it, it's why I made this thread

 

[dr.zli]

thing to note - clipper used wing to ram, that might have been a problem

 

[Xaraman]

I suppose first things first.

What are the armour and shield values on each ship in the shipyard?

What plating/shields did each ship have?

Not saying that it isn't a bug, but maybe there is a weird logic that needs some ironing out when it comes to ramming/contact mechanics.

 

[Tigga]

It's buggy for sure. I think it's calculated locally, so a small amount of lag can cause one ship to take massively more damage than the other. I've been on both sides of this: no collision on my machine while the other guy pops, and no damage to the other guy while I take major damage.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

-- Deleted --

 

[Shintai]

In my experience armour makes a huge difference.

 

[Britannkic]

I don't know how FD have modelled ramming but a good ramming ship should be as follows:

If small, it should be compact, wedge shaped and its superstructure should be a series of triangular space frames.

Added mass makes for a better ram especially if the ram is pretty clumsy. But mass can be replaced by speed using the rail gun philosophy

Take a heavy axe head vs a super sharp samurai sword. One is slow, heavy and relatively blunt, the other super fast, strong and sharp

Take a look at the Cobra wire frame, it's ideal ramming shape imo

Ramming isn't just about crashing into the target, it's about crashing through it

 

[Klab]

Personally, I hope that the consequences of ramming are totally random. If 2 spaceships smash into each other at speed in space, there ought to be an extremely dangerous & unpredictable outcome.
Ramming in space shouldn't be a viable combat tactic, maybe a last-ditch 'do or die' lunge, but no more than that in my opinion.

 

[Goilveig]

Seems like it's mainly mass-based but can be totally random at times, too. I'm fairly certain that being hit by some floating debris from the ship I just destroyed was responsible for the time I went from 100% shields and hull -> no shields and 14% hull in an instant. Nothing else was attacking me nor was there anything around to hit besides the exploding ship fragments; don't think it was friendly fire from authority because you still get the "under attack" warning.

 

[fantodant]

I've had two impact-related deaths. The first one was pretty straightforward - full-throttled my Cobra out of a station and got distracted by the mailman for long enough to plow headfirst into the wall.

The second, though - I was in a Type 6 with the stock shields. I was leaving the station at around 70m/s and made it past the mailslot. Just then, an NPC ship (Sidewinder I think) popped into my vision in front of and below me. I pulled up instinctively, knowing that I'd probably clip the exterior grille (or whatever you call that thing) and, just like the countless other times I'd bumped it at the same speed, be totally fine. However, this time I clipped the very last crossbar, directly at the top of my cockpit bubble. Instant spinout unto death. I've therefore been working under the assumption that certain parts of the shield are more susceptible to ramming than others.

 

[Greystar]

Seems like it's mainly mass-based but can be totally random at times, too. I'm fairly certain that being hit by some floating debris from the ship I just destroyed was responsible for the time I went from 100% shields and hull -> no shields and 14% hull in an instant. Nothing else was attacking me nor was there anything around to hit besides the exploding ship fragments; don't think it was friendly fire from authority because you still get the "under attack" warning.

You are probably right, especially if you had all power to weapons and only like 1 pip in shields. Being hit by anything in that configuration will knock you out quick. I'll usually run with 3 in systems and 3 in weapons when I'm in "combat mode". When I'm in flee mode its 3 to Systems and 3 to engines (lets keep those shields up OR at least recharge faster). Currently running in my Type 6 im alway in 3sys/3eng because I have no weapons to charge.

 

[mandellorian]

Its pretty much random at the moment..i`ve hit the station doing 120 and just trashed my shields...same ship same setup hit the station at 2..yes 2 and blew up i`ve kinda accepted it as another facet of this buggy mess.

 

[Goilveig]

You are probably right, especially if you had all power to weapons and only like 1 pip in shields. Being hit by anything in that configuration will knock you out quick. I'll usually run with 3 in systems and 3 in weapons when I'm in "combat mode". When I'm in flee mode its 3 to Systems and 3 to engines (lets keep those shields up OR at least recharge faster). Currently running in my Type 6 im alway in 3sys/3eng because I have no weapons to charge.

I switch up power a lot in combat depending on the situation, but I was probably running 1/3/2 shield / engine / weapon as that's typical of what I would be doing as I was killing an NPC cobra.

Do shield pips, though, actually influence maximum shield strength, or only shield regeneration? Anything that can one-shot your shields doesn't give shield regen any time to work.

 

[The Brigadier]

The damage model is hard to quantify, because I believe it is based on angle of impact. Its most likely to be different each time. So in that regard, it is a little random what affect it will have on your ship.

I just want to point out that I don't like ramming as a tactic at all. I was in the Neto conflict zone the other day and spotting a Commander fighting for the Mob. I was in an A class Viper with Armour. He was in a Eagle. I got the upper hand, I presume he popped a shield cell and then abruptly turned and intentionally boosted into me. His eagle went down to 95% and my Viper went down to 65%.

In that instance, I would have thought it would have hurt him more than me. Alas it was not the case.

I think the collision system needs some attention, but like I said, I don't want people to swat smaller ships for fun. Its not good gameplay even if physics is behind them. Equally, I don't want a smaller ship to be able to wipe out a bigger heavier ship.

I don't know what the answer is.

 

[Greystar]

I switch up power a lot in combat depending on the situation, but I was probably running 1/3/2 shield / engine / weapon as that's typical of what I would be doing as I was killing an NPC cobra.

Do shield pips, though, actually influence maximum shield strength, or only shield regeneration? Anything that can one-shot your shields doesn't give shield regen any time to work.

In my experience (might just be my observations in general) the pips do affect strength (along with the grade and size ie) A vs E and 3v1(etc))

 

[DAYLEET]

I think who initiate the ramming might be getting the short end of the stick.

Been bumping a lot with another dude while doing short luxury run 3 nights ago, we were both in a Type7 and i guess we were both bored to death but it was funny, anyways, one time in the letterbox he went head first toward me, i "moved" away as much as i could but a type7 in a letter box moves like a beached whale and and took the hit, he exploded while i lost 2 shield ring.

We were both 100% and full shield. I can't tell for him but me when i got my T7 i removed 32 cargo to upgrade the shield to a C5 and put 16 cargo in the C4 shield slot, he probably was running stock but even then that he blew on such a slow collision was a bit much.

 

[Kerenn]

I once rammed a cobra with my viper and got the bounty that way.
To be a bit more constructive :
Mass has been said to have an impact (I.E. the more massive ship will have better chance of survival) by the devs on these forums (can't retrace exactly where).
Shields can soak up a certain quantity of damage (see the thread on shields for the numbers), and pips in SYS boost your shield capacity, so of course 4pips will help your chance to survive a ramming.

 

[Frenotx]

I fly an Asp with an A5 shield. I just ran over an almost stationary unshielded eagle. I had 4 pips in sys. He exploded, and I took about 13MJ of shield damage (out of about 125 MJ total capacity).