The need (or request) for Small Pad only locations.

[DukeIronHand]

I will admit I am a ship junkie and flying, and building, certain ships for certain tasks is part of the fun of ED at least for me. Unfortunately I also have a bit of practical "OCD'ism" and a ship has to make some sense also.

We all have our favorite ships we would like to own, or fly, more often but don't like the awesome but underutilized T7 - unable to use medium pads (that it practically swims on) because it is less then a meter too high. Now that one of my Lakon plugs is out of the way...

Small ships?
Is there really a reason, to be practical, to keep using them once you own a Python, AspX, or whatever? Besides the obvious fun factor of course but trading and missions is serious space-business eh?

What I would like to see are in-game locations that are small pad only.
These necessarily don't have to be extensive or fancy but something. Special outposts, semi-secret military installations, scientific research stations, passenger locations, etc, etc both planetary and in space. This, to me, is not some wild pie-in-the-sky request but it makes a certain kind of sense. Not every location in space where people need to be are the size of a small city. And, as a bonus, it is something that only a small ship can do and a good reason to own one.

And, for my final Lakon plug, perhaps the T6 can finally get a "T7 haircut" so it can go on small pads and not keep look ridiculously undersized on medium pads.

 

[FrogsFriend]

I've noticed quite a few small surface installations (including POI type stuff like 'refuelling stations', etc.) that have a single small pad that unfortunately can't be used. It would be good to have missions that let you access those.
And while we're on the subject, I'd love to see orbital outposts launching fighters from that small internal port they have

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

If this happened, the very first post after it went to beta would be "Why can't my Anaconda land here!? Give these small pad outpsots a large and medium landing pad!"

 

[DukeIronHand]

If this happened, the very first post after it went to beta would be "Why can't my Anaconda land here!? Give these small pad outpsots a large and medium landing pad!"

I would like to say you are crazy but...

 

[FrogsFriend]

An SRV dock is the answer [yesnod]
Small landing pad only, but also a garage where an SRV can 'dock' (surface only of course.... although, trying to drop an SRV onto an orbital outpost could be challenging )

 

[Riverside]

An SRV dock is the answer [yesnod]
Small landing pad only, but also a garage where an SRV can 'dock' (surface only of course.... although, trying to drop an SRV onto an orbital outpost could be challenging )

An SRV dock is an interesting idea, it would give the ability to access a mission board, handing in vouchers & commodities market, and not much else. Your ship could be parked nearby or restricted so it must park beyond a certain distance (to discourage filling a large cargo hold 2t at a time).

I think that with planetary docks there is no limitation on ship sizes because room is not an issue (a poor outpost may only have a single docking pad, but it could be a large one, allowing any single ship to dock), but with only an SRV dock your ship would still be vulnerable to attack and I'm not sure I see any gameplay in allowing only certain ships to dock & not others.


For orbital docks yes, I'd like to see more variety including outposts with large docks (even if that were the only one), and only small docks. Once it is known that a particular dock is restricted in some way, I don't think any complaint about a lack of facilities would be justified, and could even be a consequence of BGS manipulation (not enough through traffic & one or more pads fall into dis-repair, always leaving at least one pad operational).

 

[Ian Skippy]

Yes, we need small only locations. Currently needing a medium pad is no drawback at all, except for those who want to land on really rugged terrain.

 

[Stealthie]

One of the things I think would bring a bit of the all-important "balance" to the game would be to have things that could only be achieved in a small ship.

If it was up to me, I'd try and come up with plausible reasons why large and/or well-armed ships couldn't go certain places (maybe the controlling factions are technophobes or maybe they're paranoid about hostile intentions?) and then I'd put valuable/desirable things in those places.

How about a RES that contains an asteroid-base which only has small pads and is controlled by a pirate faction who do have large ships?
If you can get past the pirates and land in the base, you can either buy valuable commodities at cheap prices or, perhaps, take on well-paid missions.
Might even encourage a bit of co-op play if people got together to organise "raids" into the area, to take out all the pirate ships and create an opportunity for a bunch of people to land and get the goodies.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I think that with planetary docks there is no limitation on ship sizes because room is not an issue (a poor outpost may only have a single docking pad, but it could be a large one, allowing any single ship to dock), but with only an SRV dock your ship would still be vulnerable to attack and I'm not sure I see any gameplay in allowing only certain ships to dock & not others.

It would force people to do a mission in a ship thats not comically overpowered. Like many RPGs have a chapter where you temporarily lose your gear and such. In ED it would be optional, but it would provide a purpose for small ships beyond kicks&giggles.

 

[Riverside]

It would force people to do a mission in a ship thats not comically overpowered. Like many RPGs have a chapter where you temporarily lose your gear and such. In ED it would be optional, but it would provide a purpose for small ships beyond kicks&giggles.

Yes there are a few holes in my argument, I'm inclined to agree with you that there is some gameplay in it. I suppose an argument against that (for planetary bases) is that it's reasonably well established now that any planetary base with docking facilities will always be able to take any size of ship, whereas for orbital stations there is no such rule established.

 

[Hooplah]

A medium pad Type-7 isn't going to happen. That was created years ago and the dozens of threads requesting it hasn't changed anything. I think it was designed to introduce the player to large pad trading without finding out about it in the much more expensive Type-9 later.

Small pad only stations would be great and I assume fairly easy to program...but then what? These small remote stations certainly would not have the resources or manning to provide standard services. They would be lucky just to provide refueling. A reason to land is needed to be of any benefit and also fit within the BGS and overall balance of the game. Any ideas?

 

[[VR] Deggial]

I like the suggestion quite a bit.

ED definitely needs an incentive to fly those small ships even later in the player's "career".
- The OP's indea is one of the possible approaches.
- A special case could be large support tender ships in/near conflict zones that can repair and restock small (and only small!) combat ships.
- Or special missions that require a small ship to be used in order to fulfill it (be it one of the player's own ships or a temporary ship granted by the mission giver - which would make the mission even more interesting, as the ship would't be engineered to the max.)

 

[FrogsFriend]

I think Missions, Refuelling and Black Markets would fit within a reduced set of facilities. Missions, both to and from, could provide good specific reasons to go there. Especially if they could be tied in to the facility type i.e. Scientific, Military, Criminal, Corporate, etc.

 

[DukeIronHand]

A medium pad Type-7 isn't going to happen. That was created years ago and the dozens of threads requesting it hasn't changed anything. I think it was designed to introduce the player to large pad trading without finding out about it in the much more expensive Type-9 later.

Don't be a buzz-kill Cmdr.

- - - Updated - - -

I think Missions, Refuelling and Black Markets would fit within a reduced set of facilities. Missions, both to and from, could provide good specific reasons to go there. Especially if they could be tied in to the facility type i.e. Scientific, Military, Criminal, Corporate, etc.

Right. Mission possibilities are endless and it, and cargo, are the same as any installation.
People, cargo, data, and supplies, will always have to be moved back and forth no matter what the installation size.
If you want to get real fancy with the missions so be it. That ball will be in FD's court.

 

[Devari]

Small ships?
Is there really a reason, to be practical, to keep using them once you own a Python, AspX, or whatever? Besides the obvious fun factor of course but trading and missions is serious space-business eh?

There are already several reasons in-game to use small ships. Just off the top of my head:

1. Superior maneuverability and speed compared to larger ships allows you to dock, undock and maneuver in SC more efficiently.
2. Lower purchase price and far more economical rearm/restock/repair/rebuy expenses.
3. Faster/easier access to docking pads, i.e., less need to wait in docking queues at large stations and don't have to wait for the single medium pad at outposts.
4. Smaller thermal signature and visual size is useful for silent running and evasion techniques, especially smuggling or avoiding interdictions.
5. Smaller landing area and responsive vertical thrusters are very useful for planetary landings, especially in rough or uneven terrain.

There's no need to artificially limit game content to make small ships more useful than they already are in the game. There is already enough arbitrary and artificial limitations in the game as it is, we really don't need any more of that in Elite right now.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

There are already several reasons in-game to use small ships. Just off the top of my head:

1. Superior maneuverability and speed compared to larger ships allows you to dock, undock and maneuver in SC more efficiently.
2. Lower purchase price and far more economical rearm/restock/repair/rebuy expenses.
3. Faster/easier access to docking pads, i.e., less need to wait in docking queues at large stations and don't have to wait for the single medium pad at outposts.
4. Smaller thermal signature and visual size is useful for silent running and evasion techniques, especially smuggling or avoiding interdictions.
5. Smaller landing area and responsive vertical thrusters are very useful for planetary landings, especially in rough or uneven terrain.

There's no need to artificially limit game content to make small ships more useful than they already are in the game. There is already enough arbitrary and artificial limitations in the game as it is, we really don't need any more of that in Elite right now.

We could use Offline Mode...

 

[DukeIronHand]

What the hell is so artificial and "gamey" about a location that has small pads only?
Is every destination in space the size of a city with a population of 10's of thousands?

 

[Stealthie]

There are already several reasons in-game to use small ships. Just off the top of my head:

1. Superior maneuverability and speed compared to larger ships allows you to dock, undock and maneuver in SC more efficiently.
2. Lower purchase price and far more economical rearm/restock/repair/rebuy expenses.
3. Faster/easier access to docking pads, i.e., less need to wait in docking queues at large stations and don't have to wait for the single medium pad at outposts.
4. Smaller thermal signature and visual size is useful for silent running and evasion techniques, especially smuggling or avoiding interdictions.
5. Smaller landing area and responsive vertical thrusters are very useful for planetary landings, especially in rough or uneven terrain.

There's no need to artificially limit game content to make small ships more useful than they already are in the game. There is already enough arbitrary and artificial limitations in the game as it is, we really don't need any more of that in Elite right now.

I'd say the thing we really don't need any more of in Elite right now is the current arms-race toward ever more powerful ships and weapons.

- - - Updated - - -

What the hell is so artificial and "gamey" about a location that has small pads only?
Is every destination in space the size of a city with a population of 10's of thousands?

Don't be daft.

In real-life every airfield can accommodate a Boeing 747 so why shouldn't ED be exactly the same? [where is it]

 

[Devari]

What the hell is so artificial and "gamey" about a location that has small pads only?
Is every destination in space the size of a city with a population of 10's of thousands?

It would be like game with a parking lot that only has space for motorcycles. For no other reason than to make motorcycles more "competitive" with cars, ignoring of course that they're already smaller, cheaper, accelerate better and have other kinds of advantages over cars which should be accurately represented in-game, in a way that makes sense, instead of making a "motorcycles only" parking lot.

 

[DukeIronHand]

It would be like game with a parking lot that only has space for motorcycles. For no other reason than to make motorcycles more "competitive" with cars, ignoring of course that they're already smaller, cheaper, accelerate better and have other kinds of advantages over cars which should be accurately represented in-game, in a way that makes sense, instead of making a "motorcycles only" parking lot.

Ridiculous. And your point of view is quite confusing. This isn't about "make work" for small ships but something that should have already been in the game. That it can be done by small ships is just a bonus.
Again I will say: Does every destination in space have to be the size of a city and with a population of thousand and thousands?
Of course not. That alone should be reason enough.