The New Combat Model is Nonsense... I'm Quite Unhappy.

[Deleted member 115407]

I can't even get turned around before an NPC has my shields down and is blowing me out of the sky. I'm running the same loadout as I was before the patch, and it was a perfectly capable platform then (tuned-up Cobra Mk IV). I'm happy to get wasted when I make a tactical mistake in a reasonable engagement, but 10 seconds after an NPC engages me I'm paying insurance.

Great work on the rest of the enhancements (that I've experienced), but the combat model now is absolute rubbish.

 

[Drachenklaue]

Yes, you see, before the patch, they sucked. Now they're decently matched to their rank.
So, it's not your ship that is the problem, just you.

Oh, unless you mean it's literally ten seconds.

In which case, you're either biting off way more than you can chew, or maybe your ship and you are the problem.

And if you want my reference: I fly a Viper Mk4. This combat model makes enemies challenging, yes. You have to think. And know when to hold your cards, and know when to fold 'em.

 

[the100thmonkey]

I can't even get turned around before an NPC has my shields down and is blowing me out of the sky. I'm running the same loadout as I was before the patch, and it was a perfectly capable platform then (tuned-up Cobra Mk IV). I'm happy to get wasted when I make a tactical mistake in a reasonable engagement, but 10 seconds after an NPC engages me I'm paying insurance.

Great work on the rest of the enhancements (that I've experienced), but the combat model now is absolute rubbish.

Respectfully, I would suggest that you need to reassess your ship loadout, or possibly even your ship. Some ships suffered more than others in the patch; the Mk IV Cobra, alongside the Asp Explorer, would be in that group.

 

[Odan Brota]

Try bi-weaves and hull reinforcement, coupled with seeker missiles. Expect to lose your shields more often now (because the AI no longer sucks), and increase your hull strength accordingly.

 

[Soopyyy]

10 seconds eh?
You flying with no shields or the poorest shields you can find?

If not, I call shenanigans.

 

[SirAdelaide]

I've got a tradeconda with 6C biweave shields, and find that the new AI drops them in about 10 seconds if I run after interdiction (npc elite fas for example seems common), and they follow hitting with plasma.

If I fight then the shields last the 30 sec for the cops to arrive, probably because with the twists and turns I get hit less. With turrets, I do enough damage that it doesn't matter if the target stays off screen.

It does seem like shields are weaker than before, but with armoured hull it's not usually an immediate death sentence to lose them.

Where are you fighting? (combat zone, being interdicted, nav beacon etc)

 

[JughedJones]

I can't even get turned around before an NPC has my shields down and is blowing me out of the sky. I'm running the same loadout as I was before the patch, and it was a perfectly capable platform then (tuned-up Cobra Mk IV). I'm happy to get wasted when I make a tactical mistake in a reasonable engagement, but 10 seconds after an NPC engages me I'm paying insurance.

Great work on the rest of the enhancements (that I've experienced), but the combat model now is absolute rubbish.

For the underlined: Video or it never happened. I'm tired of hearing this.


Secondly, there is some good advice in this thread. There's a lot of people who can help if you provide info and are willing to
heed advice.

If not...

 

[Mohrgan]

The chorus of get good echos throughout.

All load outs have had to be adjusted for 1.6/2.1. There is a greater threat from the NPC's than before but, is it a good thing that some ships are not capable enough to match the AI? There are tons of complaints about how available internal slots, and ship stats make some ships obsolete, and how that shouldn't be so. Should some ships, like the very useful and popular AspX, be relegated to 'only if you have no other choice'?

I see kernels of truth in all of the complaints about the AI. We should be urging FD to shift the difficulty of the game if there are real issues. We as players can't make that judgement. The game should find a balance where all manner of players, in any of the ships can have success and enjoyment.

 

[Drachenklaue]

It does seem like shields are weaker than before, but with armoured hull it's not usually an immediate death sentence to lose them.

Hull reinforcements are definitely a massively good thing to have. I've got the best shields I can fit on a Viper 4, but I also threw on a few hull reinforcements. I'm a tanky little        , and of course, military grade armour is a definite great asset for battle.

 

[JughedJones]

The chorus of get good echos throughout.

All load outs have had to be adjusted for 1.6/2.1. There is a greater threat from the NPC's than before but, is it a good thing that some ships are not capable enough to match the AI? There are tons of complaints about how available internal slots, and ship stats make some ships obsolete, and how that shouldn't be so. Should some ships, like the very useful and popular AspX, be relegated to 'only if you have no other choice'?

I see kernels of truth in all of the complaints about the AI. We should be urging FD to shift the difficulty of the game if there are real issues. We as players can't make that judgement. The game should find a balance where all manner of players, in any of the ships can have success and enjoyment.

I can totally be the judge of many people making claims that they're getting wiped out instantly... Or in 10 seconds.

There's a lot of people saying this and there's no evidence of it actually happening.

There's a lot of piling on the idea that the AI is too good and a whole lot of complaining. There's no evidence of people trying to adapt and showing that it can't be done. Just a lot of shrieks of impossibility.

 

[Drachenklaue]

The chorus of get good echos throughout.

All load outs have had to be adjusted for 1.6/2.1. There is a greater threat from the NPC's than before but, is it a good thing that some ships are not capable enough to match the AI? There are tons of complaints about how available internal slots, and ship stats make some ships obsolete, and how that shouldn't be so. Should some ships, like the very useful and popular AspX, be relegated to 'only if you have no other choice'?

I see kernels of truth in all of the complaints about the AI. We should be urging FD to shift the difficulty of the game if there are real issues. We as players can't make that judgement. The game should find a balance where all manner of players, in any of the ships can have success ans enjoyment.

I'm not sure what's sadder, that you think being told to 'get good' is somehow the same as meaningful advice or not. I was pointing out (harshly? it's a harsh truth, but only if you believe in an easy lie) that it wasn't the AI's problem. Otherwise I'd be struggling. I'm not a common player. I play between 10-20 hours a fortnight. It is my only space sim since 2011, which was freelancer.

We as players should be making the judgements because WE PLAY THE GAME, yes. A game offers universal enjoyment only if you're willing to play it on its terms. Don't expect World of Warcraft to turn into World of Herbalism if you complain about not being able to raise your herbalism because 'the herbs i need are in a higher level zone but the monsters there are too high for me... I want this game to cater to my playstyle.'
Like, that's sad. An entitled way of thinking that doesn't lend itself at all to this wonderful and competent community which has, happily, stood up to say "Lads, it's time to improve, and here's how" to all the hyperbole-using, lying, demonizing arguments that these supposed 'victims of the AI' use. 'You're just telling me to git gud, you're toxic!' For crying out loud.

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I can totally be the judge of many people making claims that they're getting wiped out instantly... Or in 10 seconds.

There's a lot of people saying this and there's no evidence of it actually happening.

It's not happening. It's all lies. Not ONE person has proven me wrong.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I can totally be the judge of many people making claims that they're getting wiped out instantly... Or in 10 seconds.

There's a lot of people saying this and there's no evidence of it actually happening.

The best evidence will be when I refuse to stop paying for this game, and then you and your handful of super slick buddies can figure out how to fund future expansions on your own.

 

[vindicator jones]

Nobody should be dying from an interdiction. Submit, as soon as you drop put full pips to shields boost boost and more boost when your almost out of boost, put 3 pips into shields and 3 into engines.. If your low waking, then just spool up the FSD and jump.. if your high waking.. then forget turning around.. do the same as above except when your FSD has charged. Boost, FAOFF then point your ship at the target system. FAON and boost towards your target.. your FSD will kick in immediately and jump..

Thats it.. I am doing a video about this. lol

 

[Drachenklaue]

The best evidence will be when I refuse to stop paying for this game, and then you and your handful of super slick buddies can figure out how to fund future expansions on your own.

You're nothing but a loud minority, so please, feel free to take your temper tantrums elsewhere.
None of us are super slick. You just refuse to take good advice.
And they blame education these days. It's always been the truth that you need to be your own teacher, first and foremost.

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Nobody should be dying from an interdiction. Submit, as soon as you drop put full pips to shields boost boost and more boost when your almost out of boost, put 3 pips into shields and 3 into engines.. If your low waking, then just spool up the FSD and jump.. if your high waking.. then forget turning around.. do the same as above except when your FSD has charged. Boost, FAOFF then point your ship at the target system. FAON and boost towards your target.. your FSD will kick in immediately and jump..

Thats it.. I am doing a video about this. lol

Please do. The ridiculousness of these arguments needs to be exposed as being what it is.

 

[JughedJones]

The best evidence will be when I refuse to stop paying for this game, and then you and your handful of super slick buddies can figure out how to fund future expansions on your own.

Yup. Without you we're done.

Change the game for me or I'll make it so Elite fails!!


This is the attitude we're dealing with folks.

 

[Lucifer Hate]

People say that when player pirates go after a weaker trade vessel we are seal clubbing psychopaths. Now the same people cry when the AI seals they used to club have clubs of their own and know how to use them

I can't even get turned around before an NPC has my shields down and is blowing me out of the sky. I'm running the same loadout as I was before the patch, and it was a perfectly capable platform then (tuned-up Cobra Mk IV). I'm happy to get wasted when I make a tactical mistake in a reasonable engagement, but 10 seconds after an NPC engages me I'm paying insurance.

Great work on the rest of the enhancements (that I've experienced), but the combat model now is absolute rubbish.

Yeah before the 2.1 the AI were rubbish and could be destroyed by a one arm blind man. Now they can fight

 

[Mohrgan]

You're nothing but a loud minority, so please, feel free to take your temper tantrums elsewhere.
None of us are super slick. You just refuse to take good advice.
And they blame education these days. It's always been the truth that you need to be your own teacher, first and foremost.

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Please do. The ridiculousness of these arguments needs to be exposed as being what it is.

You come off as an insensitive lout. He is not the only one with these complaints. There is certainly a kernel of truth in these stories that shouldn't be brushed off with insults.

I have had no loses since the expansion, so don't tell me to get good. I think any game should be enjoyable for all of it's players. FD can do this, and I am sure they will.

How much fun will it be for many players if their only recourse is to run? How long will they stay interested if they are constantly reminded they aren't combat pilots?

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

....
Thats it.. I am doing a video about this. lol

[up]
Cheers!

Seems one is needed. It'll be very short though. Maybe include some basics on evasive maneuvers?

 

[Shadowma]

Sorry guys but I am a fairly good pilot & I would have to agree the AI needs turned down just a a little more, not as much as prior to the patch but they still need to strike that balance.

Shadowma

 

[GluttonyFang]

Hah... another one that doesn't understand the basic of combat, spoiled by incompetent AI of pre-2.1/1.6...