General / Off-Topic The Outsider

[Alien]

NOTE: Please keep all posts relevant to The Outsider or I will personally ask moderators to remove posts

[video=youtube;pcywj_nhRlw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcywj_nhRlw[/video]

I would like to start a campaign to either have Frontier Developments clarify the status of The Outsider, or to have them continue development on the game at some point. I realise that at this moment, they have two big games to work on, and a GTA style game is not on the development list. But that doesn't mean it won't be at some point in the future. At some point, development on Elite Dangerous and Planet Coaster will wind down, and Frontier will be looking for a new game to develop.

I just want to show them that people did want The Outsider, and given the advances in technology and the improvements and lessons learned from developing Elite Dangerous since the kickstarter and developing Planet Coster, that The Outsider could be THE next great game, possibly even rivalling the Grand Theft Auto franchise.

SO ... what does this mean to you, reading this?

Show your support. Post here you will support a campaign to get The Outsider made. It may be a long wait, trust me, I know what that's like, to wait for news on a game with no official word *cough*Elite IV*cough* but WE CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN we just have to show Frontier it is worth putting back on the development list.

 

[xyphic]

The problem with The Outsider is that this kind of game has now been done enough that it would likely be seen as derivative. Back in 2011 it would have felt fresh, so it's pretty much missed its window of opportunity. That's not to say that there aren't some good ideas there (procedurally generated cities, crowds, etc.) but I think Frontier would do better to apply those technologies to other franchises.

As a footnote, it's likely that Frontier will continue development of Elite for the foreseeable future. When Planet Coaster completes, my guess is that they'll work on expansions to that game as well as starting a new franchise in the same vein (probably a zoo management game). It'll be a *long* time before they have the resources to work on a whole new franchise. Of course, I've been wrong before...

 

[Sir.Tj]

It would be a shame for all those assets to be lost, I have my own theories on this but as soon as I start speaking about them I get hit over the hea...

Zzzz

 

[Agony_Aunt]

As I understand, FD did this work for Codemasters who canned the project. If its anything like usual software development projects, then Codemasters will own the rights to everything that FD did with the game. The only thing that FD might realistically be able to take from their work on the game is the experience. Assets, code, name, the game itself, all probably belong to Codemasters.

If FD want to make this game, it would have to be under a new name, with all new code (nope, they can't even reuse a simple for...next routine, everything from scratch), new assets, and new gameplay. Otherwise they would be open to legal action from Codemasters.

I might have something wrong here, but its based on what i understand about the situation.

 

[lysan]

As I understand, FD did this work for Codemasters who canned the project. If its anything like usual software development projects, then Codemasters will own the rights to everything that FD did with the game. The only thing that FD might realistically be able to take from their work on the game is the experience. Assets, code, name, the game itself, all probably belong to Codemasters.

If FD want to make this game, it would have to be under a new name, with all new code (nope, they can't even reuse a simple for...next routine, everything from scratch), new assets, and new gameplay. Otherwise they would be open to legal action from Codemasters.

I might have something wrong here, but its based on what i understand about the situation.

Pretty much this, FD had to wait a long time to launch ED due to legal rights, only when they owned 100% the rights they could start developing the game as they wanted it. They do not own the right to the outsider at all.

However all the knowledge they own, so they should be well dressed to make a good ED FPS season

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

only when they owned 100% the rights they could start developing the game as they wanted it.

Frontier don't own 100% rights to Elite.

--

Yes to The Outsider, but only if they updated the engine to take advantage of high end machines - that promo video to me looks dated.

 

[Alien]

OK, so maybe Frontier need Codemasters permission, and given the success of Elite Dangerous, I can't see Codemasters being difficult about it (or maybe they would, I don't know).

And you can't say Frontier can't use something as simple as a "for ... next" code, that would be like telling an author he can't use the word "the".

So, maybe it will take a few years. Maybe it won't be called "The Outsider". Maybe it will look nothing like the trailer I posted above. But there is a game Frontier have left hanging, and it deserves some love.

 

[Don Alvarez]

Atmospheric landings?

 

[metatheurgist]

I thought Codemasters had been eaten by some nameless entity, so this thread made me look them up. And I saw "Micro Machines is Back!" ...squeeeeeeeee... for iOS ... <deflating noises>. That one I want as much as I used to want Elite. [sad]

 

[Adept]

It's a real shame they dropped this one.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Pinch of salt but from the Wkik page.

The Outsider is a "techno thriller"^{[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(video_game)#cite_note-officialsite-4"][4][/URL]} video game in development for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 that is set to feature storylines that change based on the player's actions. It was announced in 2005 as a David Braben game being developed by his company Frontier Developments. The release date had not officially been announced,^{[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(video_game)#cite_note-BBC-Nextgen-5"][5][/URL]} but during development the game was dropped by publisher Codemasters, leading to nearly 30 staff layoffs at the developer Frontier. After six years of development, in January 2011 David Braben confirmed that development had ceased,^{[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(video_game)#cite_note-Cancelled-3"][3][/URL]} but the game had not been cancelled.^{[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(video_game)#cite_note-6"][6][/URL]}

Not bad for a game over 10 years old.

 

[lysan]

Frontier don't own 100% rights to Elite.

--

Yes to The Outsider, but only if they updated the engine to take advantage of high end machines - that promo video to me looks dated.

Yes they do.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Yes they do.

Whilst not the correct thread allow me to demonstrate why you are wrong.

https://www.frontier.co.uk/investor_relations/aimrule26/admission_document/

The Company has entered into an agreement dated 1 June 2008 with David Braben (“IP Assignment Agreement”) in respect of the assignment of all his rights to the games known as “Elite”, “Elite 2: Frontier”, “Frontier: First Encounters” (collectively, the “Elite Sequel Products”) and “Zarch”, “Virus”, “V2000” (collectively, the “Virus Franchise Products”).

Original document in relation to AIM, on page 101, stated :

"in respect of the assignment of all rights to the games"​

DB did not own all the rights to Elite .. he only sold his rights to Frontier. That wording, whilst not changing anything of the AIM announcement, was challenged and agreed to be changed as it was factually wrong - Frontier do not 100% own all the rights to Elite.

EDIT:
Frontier may 100% own the rights to Elite Dangerous, that part I am unsure of, but specifically "Elite" they do not.

 

[lysan]

Whilst not the correct thread allow me to demonstrate why you are wrong.

https://www.frontier.co.uk/investor_relations/aimrule26/admission_document/



Original document in relation to AIM, on page 101, stated :

"in respect of the assignment of all rights to the games"​

DB did not own all the rights to Elite .. he only sold his rights to Frontier. That wording, whilst not changing anything of the AIM announcement, was challenged and agreed to be changed as it was factually wrong - Frontier do not 100% own all the rights to Elite.

EDIT:
Frontier may 100% own the rights to Elite Dangerous, that part I am unsure of, but specifically "Elite" they do not.

yes OT, but you're wrong.
https://www.frontier.co.uk/investor_relations/reports/news/?artid=417&pageNum=7&blk=275

"David Braben is to sell up to 1.6m shares in Frontier Developments following the buyout of an IT firm which holds the rights to the Elite franchise he co-created."

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/frontier-acquires-elite-rights-as-braben-readies-share-sale/0131299

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

The article linked is just that - a journalist article - so I do not recognise the authority of it.

However the link on Frontiers site I do recognise as authoritative and draw your attention to the first paragraph:

Frontier Developments plc (AIM: FDEV, "Frontier," the "Company"), a leading developer of video games with studios in Cambridge, UK and Halifax, Canada, has entered into a conditional agreement to acquire the business and assets of Professional Practice Automation LLP (“PPA”), a limited liability partnership in which David Braben is a member (the “Acquisition”). The assets to be acquired include the royalty rights in respect of the Elite video game franchise (the "Elite Royalty Rights"), the benefit of which are currently held by PPA. David Braben assigned these rights to the Company in June 2008 in return for a royalty based on Frontier’s profits from the Elite video game franchise.

Basically DB sold his rights to PPA and subsequently bought them back later by the sale of shares, as per the correction in the AIM announcement (that was as a result of a dispute in the wording pertaining to what DB "owned")

Again, Frontier do not hold 100% rights to the franchise Elite - they hold DB's​ rights .. remember, there were 2 of them originally

 

[Alien]

Can you please bring discussion back to Outsider

 

[Lianachan]

It looked interesting, but I'm not surprised it didn't come out. I remember being disappointed that we'd have to wait for that before work started on Elite IV.

Oh, and as for supporting a campaign I'm afraid my answer is no. Frontier have spent all of the good will with me that they'd accumulated over the years. I have no faith that they'd make a good job of this.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Can you please bring discussion back to Outsider

Sorry.

To answer your specific question then: "Post here you will support a campaign to get The Outsider made." then my answer is no.

GIven FDs track record; the fact that they're using a dated engine; and that I have little faith in them at the moment I would say "don't waste your time".

I know you think differently so good luck with your campaign.