The potential for Elite:Dangerous as a learning tool.

[Badben]

This is an idea I've had since I started playing Elite Dangerous, and it's only been reinforced by playing Horizons, and so I thought I'd share it with you all. I know Frontier has their own plans and so on, I just thought this would be interesting to discuss.

Oh be a fine girl, kiss me. Even heard that before? it's an acronym for the star types in our galaxy. If you're an explorer in Elite Dangerous, it's an invaluable tool for knowing the most valuable stars to scan. It's also one of just a few real world things I've learned about our galaxy while playing this incredible expanse of a game. Other things I've learned playing elite are things like stellar distances and speed. For example, the speed of light is actually a lot slower than I really understood before playing Elite. Or just how many stars there are in our galaxy. Believe it or not, my wife didn't really know what a galaxy was and the difference between a solar system and a galaxy. She has no interest in video games whatsoever, but when I showed her the galaxy map and system maps and explained, she was fascinated and wanted to know more. Now with Horizons out and basically having a cool moon buggy simulator and being able to even land and drive on moons and planets in our very own solar system, the potential for this game as a learning tool is really through the roof.

So what I'm saying with all this is, imagine an Elite Dangerous for the classroom, specifically, a version without all the shooting. There's Minecraft for the classroom now, and in my opinion, Elite Dangerous is probably the most accurate galaxy simulator in existence, and probably one of the best ways to teach people about the universe. All of the stars we can see in the night sky are in the game, the rest is done with as good a representation as we can achieve at this time. Our moon's surface is accurate in game, we can't land on it yet, but maybe someday? Anyway, regardless of how accurate this or that is, I believe Elite Dangerous has an incredible potential for teaching kids about the stars, and it would be a shame to waste potential like that. Think of all the kids that want to be astronauts, well here's a cool futuristic astronaut simulator with real physics built in.

What are some of the things you've learned about the galaxy playing Elite Dangerous?

 

[grammatonfeather]

This is an idea I've had since I started playing Elite Dangerous, and it's only been reinforced by playing Horizons, and so I thought I'd share it with you all. I know Frontier has their own plans and so on, I just thought this would be interesting to discuss.

Oh be a fine girl, kiss me. Even heard that before? it's an acronym for the star types in our galaxy. If you're an explorer in Elite Dangerous, it's an invaluable tool for knowing the most valuable stars to scan. It's also one of just a few real world things I've learned about our galaxy while playing this incredible expanse of a game. Other things I've learned playing elite are things like stellar distances and speed. For example, the speed of light is actually a lot slower than I really understood before playing Elite. Or just how many stars there are in our galaxy. Believe it or not, my wife didn't really know what a galaxy was and the difference between a solar system and a galaxy. She has no interest in video games whatsoever, but when I showed her the galaxy map and system maps and explained, she was fascinated and wanted to know more. Now with Horizons out and basically having a cool moon buggy simulator and being able to even land and drive on moons and planets in our very own solar system, the potential for this game as a learning tool is really through the roof.

So what I'm saying with all this is, imagine an Elite Dangerous for the classroom, specifically, a version without all the shooting. There's Minecraft for the classroom now, and in my opinion, Elite Dangerous is probably the most accurate galaxy simulator in existence, and probably one of the best ways to teach people about the universe. All of the stars we can see in the night sky are in the game, the rest is done with as good a representation as we can achieve at this time. Our moon's surface is accurate in game, we can't land on it yet, but maybe someday? Anyway, regardless of how accurate this or that is, I believe Elite Dangerous has an incredible potential for teaching kids about the stars, and it would be a shame to waste potential like that. Think of all the kids that want to be astronauts, well here's a cool futuristic astronaut simulator with real physics built in.

What are some of the things you've learned about the galaxy playing Elite Dangerous?

Your first name isn't David is it? David Badben?

Elite Learning edition could be great fun for the classroom especially when you combine it with HMD VR. I've demonstrated space educational apps for friends and family on Oculus and they are amazed. I'm thinking specifically of Titans of Space and Apollo 11 from the same company.

I hope VR does make it in to the classroom because when you combine it with Elite it's breathtaking.

 

[MagicTofu]

Despite all the praises already made to the 'science' contained in Elite Dangerous, it's still a game, and with a lot of scientific errors and approximations that serve gameplay (sound in vacuum, laser weapons that are only effective up to 3km....), because it needs to be fun before being scientifically accurate.

Still, yes, there are things you can definitely learn from playing the game, but I really don't think it belongs in a classroom. The best learning potential would probably lie in the fact that people enjoying the game may be more enclined to try and learn further knowledge about physics and astronomy by themselves, but by looking for other more reliable sources, because gameplay will probably always take precedence over pedagogy in Elite (as it should if you ask me).

 

[Riedquat]

I had thought about using it for a childrens party in the past, although I think you would need a 'lite' version without the death and destruction (depending on the age group).

You could simulate the room as a space ship and use it as part of a story.

 

[Badben]

I had thought about using it for a childrens party in the past, although I think you would need a 'lite' version without the death and destruction (depending on the age group).

You could simulate the room as a space ship and use it as part of a story.

A lite version would definitely be required for kids, and maybe if it's supposed to be educational, take out a few more of the gamey things like sounds in space and so on

 

[grammatonfeather]

A lite version would definitely be required for kids, and maybe if it's supposed to be educational, take out a few more of the gamey things like sounds in space and so on

Don't need to take out sounds... You'd have sounds of the ship and artistic license is ok.

They could create Elite exploration version which locks out the combat.

 

[Roberto]

I love Elite, but I'm not convinced it belongs in the classroom. If you want to teach kids about the vastness of space, you'd be better off showing them a video such as this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxs5wye0JXs

And if you want to teach them about space exploration as well (and a bit about planet formation), the BBC's old Horizon documentaries on the Voyager missions would do the job much more efficiently in my opinion.

Thing is, it's not like kids are suffering from a dearth of inspiration when it comes to space. On the fictional side, there's Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, The Martian, Futurama – the list just goes on and on. And in reality, we're landing (or crash-landing!) probes on comets, "space tourism" is on its way to becoming a thing and astronauts on the ISS are posting on Twitter and YouTube. I reckon kids who are going to be into this stuff... will already be into this stuff!

All sitting pupils in front of Elite will do is frustrate many of them (unless you drastically simplify the controls/limit the options – which could also lead to frustration and boredom) and, frankly, waste their time when they ought to be learning about spelling, grammar, long division, French, history, critical thinking, Newton's laws, coding (probably essential these days) and so on. This obsession with only giving kids what they want is why so many leave school woefully unprepared for the adult world.

 

[WiseDuck]

Just use universe simulator and control everything your self.

 

[Garbarrage]

Here you go... http://en.spaceengine.org/

 

[Badben]

I love Elite, but I'm not convinced it belongs in the classroom. If you want to teach kids about the vastness of space, you'd be better off showing them a video such as this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxs5wye0JXs

And if you want to teach them about space exploration as well (and a bit about planet formation), the BBC's old Horizon documentaries on the Voyager missions would do the job much more efficiently in my opinion.

Thing is, it's not like kids are suffering from a dearth of inspiration when it comes to space. On the fictional side, there's Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, The Martian, Futurama – the list just goes on and on. And in reality, we're landing (or crash-landing!) probes on comets, "space tourism" is on its way to becoming a thing and astronauts on the ISS are posting on Twitter and YouTube. I reckon kids who are going to be into this stuff... will already be into this stuff!

All sitting pupils in front of Elite will do is frustrate many of them (unless you drastically simplify the controls/limit the options – which could also lead to frustration and boredom) and, frankly, waste their time when they ought to be learning about spelling, grammar, long division, French, history, critical thinking, Newton's laws, coding (probably essential these days) and so on. This obsession with only giving kids what they want is why so many leave school woefully unprepared for the adult world.

Sorry man, but you sound outdated. Watching old BBC documentaries and showing a video are not the same thing as experiencing and doing it themselves. Why would you think kids would get frustrated with this? do you even understand how quickly kids these days pick up game controls? My 3 year old can nearly fly my ship, And the idea that "kids these days" are not prepared for the adult world is a myth as old as Plato. In fact this idea even has a scientific name "juvenoia" like paranoia but about juveniles. It's what makes all the old foggies say things like "kids these days aren't prepared for the world!" you're grandparents said the same thing about you.

 

[Roberto]

Sorry, man, but you sound outdated. Watching old BBC documentaries and showing a video are not the same thing as experiencing and doing it themselves. Why do you think kids would get frustrated with this? Do you even understand how quickly kids these days pick up game controls? My three-year-old can nearly fly my ship, and the idea that "kids these days" are not prepared for the adult world is a myth as old as Plato. In fact this idea even has a scientific name, "juvenoia" – like paranoia but referring specifically to juveniles. It's what makes all the old fogeys say things like "kids these days aren't prepared for the world!" Your grandparents said the same thing about you.

They might have said that about you, given your limited writing skills. (Sorry, but if you're going to insult me, expect the same in return.)

I've got nothing against kids; there are several smart kids in my family (who can write better than you). I do think there's a problem with today's education system. If there isn't, then why do I keep encountering "workies" who want to get into publishing/journalism, but can't write properly and are therefore unemployable?

EDIT: Also, you've inadvertently proved my point that you don't need Elite or other computer games in the classroom – your kid is exposed to them anyway.

 

[Badben]

They might have said that about you, given your limited writing skills. (Sorry, but if you're going to insult me, expect the same in return.)

I've got nothing against kids; there are several smart kids in my family (who can write better than you). I do think there's a problem with today's education system. If there isn't, then why do I keep encountering "workies" who want to get into publishing/journalism, but can't write properly and are therefore unemployable?

EDIT: Also, you've inadvertently proved my point that you don't need Elite or other computer games in the classroom – your kid is exposed to them anyway.

What you are doing is called ad hominem, you are attacking the person rather than the argument, as in attacking my writing skills rather than the idea we are discussing. you are also being very rude to me and I'd appreciate it if you not post here anymore, find a different thread to spout your drivel.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Hi there,
In an attempt to avoid this thread getting locked we did discuss this a while back. The issue is that whilst Elite is great for giving a great perspective of size, scale and such it frankly doesn't have quite enough science per hour of play.

Yes you can learn about star classes and stuff from system maps and getting that sense of scale is key in any profession such as astronomy but compared with something like Kerbal Space Program that deals with orbital physics, aerodynamics, thruster isp and atmospheric density etc Elite simply doesn't have the same educational value unless you are targeting a very very specific audience..
Again, it's very useful but to get that useful information takes too long.

Finally from the other thread many were concerned that (especially given the scope of Elite) taking time away from development to do a spin-off version would annoy a ton of people regardless of if it is a good/bad thing.

Edit: I do have to disagree with Roberto though, there's a massive push to get kids, specifically females into science and engineering. Any tools that can be used to promote these professions are often given backing. Look at KSP with the Nasa affiliation.

 

[Roberto]

What you are doing is called ad hominem, you are attacking the person rather than the argument, as in attacking my writing skills rather than the idea we are discussing. you are also being very rude to me and I'd appreciate it if you not post here anymore, find a different thread to spout your drivel.

So, you get to call me "outdated" and (by implication) an "old fogey" and "paranoid", suggest that I'm thick ("Do you even understand...") and bring (of all things) my grandparents into the discussion, and that's not ad hominem? Unbelievable.

I've made several counterarguments, which you've chosen to ignore. I certainly shan't post on this thread again – what's the point? You're clearly only interested in people agreeing with you.

 

[Kayweg]

I know this will sound terribly old fashioned.
I'm not agsinst the idea per say, but i believe, kids will benefit much more (and be inspired more) from practical school activities outside their classrooms rather than within.
As in showing them applied physics and math in interesting ways to inspire them learning the theory behind it.
I think our kids already spend more time looking at screens than can possibly be good in the long run.
0.02 $

 

[Bomber]

Aye theres been threads on this in the past. I mentioned using it for learning and tying it into known accepted data sources such as NASA etc.
It would be great to listen to Prof S Hawking talking about the galaxy as you fly by some of the known stars etc. & be able to get vid/photos etc to learn on the job. Part of an exploration expansion?
It would be good for ED as well, use Elite during school to learn & they can play Elite at night. Not just for kids, well I'm still a kid at heart

 

[JonnyC0mbat]

How about when you get to an area of scientific interest you get a little ping that says "This is the Star Rigel, would you like to know more?" and you get a little audio snippet giving some interesting facts (like the audio tours at art museums).

Pie in the sky thinking, but hey it's worth a shot!

 

[Hober]

I am using it as a learning tool. For when I have to fight Xur and the Kodan Armada.

 

[Tarman]

I am using it as a learning tool. For when I have to fight Xur and the Kodan Armada.

Hopefully you get an android replica while you're away.

 

[Hepburn]

You could absolutely use this game in a classroom. Teaching isn't about giving students facts... it's about developing their interests as well as their critical/creative thinking skills. You wouldn't use Elite to supply students with scientifically accurate information. You'd use it to:

1.) Inspire their curiosity in astronomy (and science more generally).
2.) Give them a sense of scale (just how big our galaxy is).
3.) Help them make predictions about our future in space.
4.) Get them to think about how authors (i.e. game designers) draw on reality for inspiration.
And the list goes on.

Moreover, I'd argue that the participatory nature of Elite makes it a far more powerful learning-tool than a video-documentary. Players aren't just told what gravity is -- they experience it firsthand.