The problem with human piracy - A traders perspective

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I am just reflecting on the psychology behind the some of the piracy/pvp discussions on this forum. There is a lot of anger behind it, a lot of hysteria. As you also can witness in some of the reactions full of derogatory remarks in this thread. I wondered why that was. Obviously saying piracy in ED is 'just role playing' does not alleviate the problem. There is much more going on on a deeper level. I feel I addressed some of the problems behind the curtain.

Sorry, but your initial post doesn't read that way at all - it clearly states you think that not agreed PvP is bad, and that traders should not be harased by PC pirates at all. Which is against idea of 'all' group. If you just changed your opinion or misspoke - just admit it No need to pretend it didn't happen.

I think we can agree that both PvP and PvE players must take some leap of faith regarding this, toss out old assumptions and grievances, and give it a shot in 2 weeks time.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Oh they will

One thing that can massively change the game against pirates is getting points for assists... Right now you take take a ships hull down to 1%, then a sidewinder with a single pulse laser can get that last 1% and you get nothing. That may change, and if it does then bounty hunters will group.

Being a trader is pretty well a solitary profession (unless there are going to be convoys), pirates are opportunists so will probably be alone, but grouping as a bounty hunter guarantees success and so they will.

So Dread Pirate Percy successfully interdicts a noob trader and destroys her utterly for her 4 tonnes of fish - and then from nowhere answering the traders distress call two Anaconda warp in, destroy Percy's power unit, taunt him, blow him up, and then stick the video on Youtube...

♫Oh it's a Pirates life for me♫♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪
Maybe not actually

Devs want bounty hunters compete for a meal. Do alliances and share bounty.

 

[Iskariot]

Sorry, but your initial post doesn't read that way at all - it clearly states you think that not agreed PvP is bad, and that traders should not be harased by PC pirates at all. Which is against idea of 'all' group. If you just changed your opinion or misspoke - just admit it No need to pretend it didn't happen.

I did not change my opinion. I did not misspeak.

I did not say that not-agreed-upon-PvP is bad, although that is what I do think. But if one joins the all group, than that of course is the same as agreeing/accepting to PvP. I accept that.

I never said that traders should not be harassed by PC pirates at all. If the game allows for that, then that is what the game is. In the end the decision is up to the pc pirate.
I was just reflecting on how that would be perceived by a trader who is not role playing a pirate's victim, but just wants to get ahead in the game just to see his efforts thwarted by someone who could simply choose to let him be and victimize an npc who has not a lot of time and effort invested in the game.

We cannot get away from the moral question by simply stating it is 'just role playing'.

What intrigues me most is the mindset of those who have no consideration at all for the player they are victimizing. I wonder would they stop victimizing that player if he asked them to do so?

 

[beelbeebub]

I did not change my opinion. I did not misspeak.

I did not say that not agreed upon PvP is bad, although that is what I do think. But if one joins the all group, than that of course is the same as agreeing to PvP. I accept that.

I never said that traders should not be harassed by PC pirates at all. If the game allows for that, then that is what the game is. In the end the decision is up to the pc pirate.
I was just reflecting on how that would be perceived by a trader who is not role playing a pirate's victim, but just wants to get ahead in the game just to see his efforts thwarted by someone who could simply choose to let him be and victimize an npc who has not a lot of time and effort invested in the game.

We cannot get away from the moral question by simply stating it is 'just role playing'.

What intrigues me most is the mindset of those who have no consideration at all for the player they are victimizing. I wonder would they stop victimizing that player if he asked them to do so?

Is this position not akin to entering a motor race, then complaining when other drivers overtake you?

You have stated that joining the all group is akin to agreeing to PvP, but part of agreeing to PvP is agreeing that someone may attempt to pirate you, of course they are agreeing that their victim may just turn around and blast them out of the sky. Either way both are playing by the rules, if you do not wish to ever be pirated by a player, only by NPCs then single player is available.

Note I am not supporting actual bullying, stalking or harassing of players or of using hacks, cheats or exploits.

 

[Storagebod]

I did not change my opinion. I did not misspeak.

I did not say that not agreed upon PvP is bad, although that is what I do think. But if one joins the all group, than that of course is the same as agreeing to PvP. I accept that.

I never said that traders should not be harassed by PC pirates at all. If the game allows for that, then that is what the game is. In the end the decision is up to the pc pirate.
I was just reflecting on how that would be perceived by a trader who is not role playing a pirate's victim, but just wants to get ahead in the game just to see his efforts thwarted by someone who could simply choose to let him be and victimize an npc who has not a lot of time and effort invested in the game.

We cannot get away from the moral question by simply stating it is 'just role playing'.

What intrigues me most is the mindset of those who have no consideration at all for the player they are victimizing. I wonder would they stop victimizing that player if he asked them to do so?

I think this is why some of us feel that there should be no way of identifying who is a PC and who is an NPC....it takes the heat out of the situation. Perhaps you should know after the encounter so you can make the decision to ignore them...

There are problems with this approach as the pirate never knows whether they are going to attract a Pilot's Federation bounty or not but I guess in space, that's the risk you take.

The motivation and emotions of the other guy are pretty much unknowable. If we can ensure that there is little or preferably no gloating/trash-talk...we can move on pretty quickly. We've all seen the horrible behaviour, the racism and the sexism which abounds in some games. We don't need to know the other guys emotions but equally we shouldn't ascribe emotions that might not be there.

If we can be both good winners and good losers...it'll be a much nicer galaxy.

 

[Iskariot]

Is this position not akin to entering a motor race, then complaining when other drivers overtake you?

No, in ED it is much more complicated than that. I feel I did explain that.

You have stated that joining the all group is akin to agreeing to PvP, but part of agreeing to PvP is agreeing that someone may attempt to pirate you, of course they are agreeing that their victim may just turn around and blast them out of the sky. Either way both are playing by the rules, if you do not wish to ever be pirated by a player, only by NPCs then single player is available.

Joining the all group 'forces' you to agree to the possibility of getting mugged by other players. If you join you agree. It is as simple as that.
Nevertheless there is a lot of ambiguity in this, as I tried to explain in my posts.

Yes single player will be the only option for some.

 

[beelbeebub]

No, in ED it is much more complicated than that. I feel I did explain that.



Joining the all group 'forces' you to agree to the possibility of getting mugged by other players. If you join you agree. It is as simple as that.
Nevertheless there is a lot of ambiguity in this, as I tried to explain in my posts.

Yes single player will be the only option for some.

I sort of feel that when I sign up to the all group I'm implicitly agreeing that I may be pirated, bounty hunted or whatever, but also that I may be all of the above.

It's all a game, if I'm in a pirating mood and come across a tasty looking target, I might give it a go. That target may be human, or NPC, it's really irrelevant (except a human player is probably more risk). I don't seek out human players, but neither would I pass on them (other than my own cowardice)

BTW 90% of my piracy attempts end in ignominious defeat, it'smainly trading for me, but sometimes....

 

[Mecha]

I'd like to believe some aspiring bounty hunters will band together and try to take me down if I get a high enough bounty, but I've got around a 300,000cr bounty now and I've had it for quite some time.

But we are not playing the full game. If that was in the game real, you and your location would be listed on a bulletin board. And you should expect some visitors

Even with comms I don't believe strangers will have the incentive or ability to co-ordinate an attack against a skilled pirate.

Really? From other games I've played, it doesn't take much co-ordination with a couple of people to swarm a lone opponent. I think people will pick up pretty quickly what sub systems to target, and a couple of fast ships with gimbled weapons will certainly test a solo pirates skill level.

 

[Stoopyface]

Hey Mecha. I'm not too sure if FD plans to actually have that sort of wanted list and last known location stuff in the game, but I would kind of like this sort of thing for the most notorious criminals.

The ability remark I made was more on the ability of them to co-ordinate rather than their skill. Here's a link to the thread about hunting down the pirates that were hanging around Aulin: http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=25548&highlight=stoopid&page=10. Although this thread came close (and even breached) the no name and shame policy at times they were never able to gather even two people in the same place, let alone the same place and the same time. Although I expect this will be easier to do once we have comms and groups I think this sort of co-operation will be rare if it's solely encouraged through profit.