The problem with the exploration features, where's the gameplay?

No this is not another thread about legs and atmospheric planets.
I remember David Braben talking about atmospheric planets, he said that adding colored skies and nothing else would have been disappointing, same for legs. The complexity of these features is in providing interesting gameplay.

Now when I think about all the features added to exploration in Beyond I can see that FDEV did exactly what David adivesed to avoid.
I think about Lagrangian Clouds have cool sparks and lightning fx. But what's the gameplay associated? You just see your shields going down if you stay in the middle of the thunderstorm. What else? Ah yes you can take a selfie with your ship in front of some coloured clouds. Same for brain trees and other biological POI's. You drop your SRV, shoot the scanner at it, shoot the lasers at it to farm materials... and then??
FDEV only added graphical models and effect with zero content. The only gameloop added to exploration is the notorious FSS. Even the surface probes are quickly repetitive as the shooting path is the same for all planets.

Now I don't like people who complain and don't suggest anything, so I think a lot could be added to exploration in the small updates before 2020 because they don't need to make revolutions to add new interesting gameloops:

1. Lagrangian clouds should be more common and aggressive, they should be attracted by your ship and create a magnetic field that operates as a supercruise interdictor and pulls you out of supercruise, they should be a danger to escape, not a touristic center for desktop generators. When you see a lagrangian cloud in your FSS you should be terrified! Not all of them should be aggressive though. So they should keep a line of mystery that makes you wonder why some of them attack.

2. The planets should be populated with remains of extinct civilization. Landind at these spots you could scan data or collect alien manufactured materials. These materials and data should be able to randomly give some boost performance to the ship, like a 200%-400% FSD range increse, able to synthesize boosted heat sinks, or improve supercruise performance when injected (better acceleration for example), partially repair your ship, improve SRV perfomance and so on.
Sometimes when you jump to a new system you should drop directly in a lagrangian clouds. You drop and you should wonder where the hell are you?

3. Add USS's in the black far from the bubble with stranded explorers. People asking for help because they ran out of materials or fuel. Here I see a problem with the current mechanics because we can only transfer fuer with limpets. This is just stupid because if you don't have a fuel transfer limpet controller you're out of this game loop. If we have cargo space we should be able to synthesize fuel containers with iron and nickel and refill these containers from our fuel tank. The explorer in need will ask for a couple of tonnes of fuel so you farm the containers, refill them with fuel from your tank and jettison them. The explorer will collect them and he will reward you giving you some tip where to find for example a lost camp or a crashed ship where you can find interesting or valuable stuff nearby, or simply credits.

4. Add crashed sites in the galaxy where you could inspect huge crashed ships, maybe also some alien ones belonging to old civilizations. Some of these ship could have some hidden danger that needs to be destroyed (with weapons) or deactivated by disabling generator or other stuff.

5. Escape pods. I see here a complete new profession as a life guard. Give the FSS an extra module that can be fitted as an utility mount that can detect stranded escape pods in the FSS interface on planets and at crashed sites, add USS in the black with escape pods so we could have a new profession where you act like a saviour and go around the black looking for stranded escape pods. Turn them in and receive a much higher rewards for escape pods collected outside populated space or far from the bubble. There could also be a multiplier based on the distance from the bubble, for example an escape pod collected at Beagle Point would reward you 50x more than an escape pods found at 1000 LY from Sol.
 
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I'd be happy if they beefed up black holes. Give them accretion disks and make them properly lethal. The fact that we can essentially bounce off them is a bit daft.

It's certainly pretty freaky when you visit SagA and it's an awesome sight but then you can just "bump into" the black hole and drop out of SC, like any other astronomical body.

It'd be nice if, perhaps, there was stuff moving toward the black-hole and then, if you got too close, you could be knocked out of SC and find yourself in an "Empire Strikes Back" style game of dodgems with a bunch of asteroids (Exogorths would be optional).
 
Do you understand what a lagrange cloud (Kordylewski cloud) actually is?
Yes, but it's a sci-fi game with misteries and secrets. What we call Lagrangian Cloud could not be a Lagrangian Cloud after all, that's why I said not all would be aggressive. The aggressive ones could be something else and here we leave a veil of mistery.
 
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I was actually talking about your comment - 'We should drop straight into lagrangian clouds upon entering a system'

How would that work? As far as I am aware the stellar forge is placing those clouds at correct lagrangian points in the system.
 
Planets are populated with remains of 1 extinct and 1 still living alien civilisation.
Maybe there's more, but we explored only 0.036% of the Galaxy.
 
A fair chunk of it is also permit locked. Safe to say those areas are currently blocked for a reason.
But of course they are, they're not randomly locked. :)

<tin foil hat on>
Perhaps when we find TDW's dark station we'll get permits to some of them.
<tin foil hat off>
 
I was actually talking about your comment - 'We should drop straight into lagrangian clouds upon entering a system'

How would that work? As far as I am aware the stellar forge is placing those clouds at correct lagrangian points in the system.

Ok here I simplified too much. Let's not call them lagrangian clouds anymore.
The ones where you fall at when you drop in the system are a kind of foggy belt around the main star. So when you drop to the star you would directly fall in the exclusion zone of these clouds (there are a few black holes already where you fall directly in their exclusion zone so this is not a new game mechanics).
In this case you would suddenly find yourself in a dangerous environment with clouds and thunderstorms that surround your ship and attack you.
When you can escape and launch supercruise you can leave this area and you would physically see kind of cloud/ring around the main star.

In the other cases we should see lightning getting closer to our ship while in supercruise and these are the aggressive type that will try to interdict you.

You have then two options to escape to these clouds:
1. shoot to the organic structures with a powerful gun (when you destroy 10-20 of them the clouds fade away).
2. disable the aggressivity: analyze the composition to see the basic structure (carbon, ammonia, hydrogen for example) and drop the required catalyzer from your materials inventor. This should work like the fuel transfer I described above, so you synthesize a container that will spray the catalyzer once jettisoned and you fill it with your materials. Disabling the aggressivity should be more rewarding so you should be able to farm some material from it.
 
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No this is not another thread about legs and atmospheric planets.
I remember David Braben talking about atmospheric planets, he said that adding colored skies and nothing else would have been disappointing, same for legs. The complexity of these features is in providing interesting gameplay.
Agreed

Now when I think about all the features added to exploration in Beyond I can see that FDEV did exactly what David adivesed to avoid.
I disagree, but I think there is a lot of scope for more though.

I think about Lagrangian Clouds have cool sparks and lightning fx. But what's the gameplay associated? You just see your shields going down if you stay in the middle of the thunderstorm. What else? Ah yes you can take a selfie with your ship in front of some coloured clouds. Same for brain trees and other biological POI's. You drop your SRV, shoot the scanner at it, shoot the lasers at it to farm materials... and then??
There could be more gameplay atributed to these thing, but all it would come down to is a press of a button, unless you want a mini-game to unlock its secrets.

FDEV only added graphical models and effect with zero content. The only gameloop added to exploration is the notorious FSS. Even the surface probes are quickly repetitive as the shooting path is the same for all planets.
Everything becomes repetative over time. Its the reasons to use them is what is important and the probes could do with having more uses instead of just locations of POI.

Now I don't like people who complain and don't suggest anything, so I think a lot could be added to exploration in the small updates before 2020 because they don't need to make revolutions to add new interesting gameloops:
Lets have a look at you ideas

1. Lagrangian clouds should be more common and aggressive, they should be attracted by your ship and create a magnetic field that operates as a supercruise interdictor and pulls you out of supercruise, they should be a danger to escape, not a touristic center for desktop generators. When you see a lagrangian cloud in your FSS you should be terrified! Not all of them should be aggressive though. So they should keep a line of mystery that makes you wonder why some of them attack.
Lagrange clouds are not alive to attack you. I have to assume that you mean the life forms that live within the lagrange clouds. I agree that these could have more gameplay involved, what though is the tough one. Could be good if you could use research limpets on them for more information.

2. The planets should be populated with remains of extinct civilization. Landind at these spots you could scan data or collect alien manufactured materials. These materials and data should be able to randomly give some boost performance to the ship, like a 200%-400% FSD range increse, able to synthesize boosted heat sinks, or improve supercruise performance when injected (better acceleration for example), partially repair your ship, improve SRV perfomance and so on.
I don't like this idea at all. Extinct civilisations should be extremely rare. I also don't like the boosted FSD range idea. FSD ranges are already stupidly high.

Sometimes when you jump to a new system you should drop directly in a lagrangian clouds. You drop and you should wonder where the hell are you?
I don't like this either. Why would you drop into a lagrange cloud?

3. Add USS's in the black far from the bubble with stranded explorers. People asking for help because they ran out of materials or fuel. Here I see a problem with the current mechanics because we can only transfer fuer with limpets. This is just stupid because if you don't have a fuel transfer limpet controller you're out of this game loop. If we have cargo space we should be able to synthesize fuel containers with iron and nickel and refill these containers from our fuel tank. The explorer in need will ask for a couple of tonnes of fuel so you farm the containers, refill them with fuel from your tank and jettison them. The explorer will collect them and he will reward you giving you some tip where to find for example a lost camp or a crashed ship where you can find interesting or valuable stuff nearby, or simply credits.
What would be the odds of finding these. Seems pointless.

4. Add crashed sites in the galaxy where you could inspect huge crashed ships, maybe also some alien ones belonging to old civilizations. Some of these ship could have some hidden danger that needs to be destroyed (with weapons) or deactivated by disabling generator or other stuff.
Nice, but again these would be extremely rare and difficult to find.

5. Escape pods. I see here a complete new profession as a life guard. Give the FSS an extra module that can be fitted as an utility mount that can detect stranded escape pods in the FSS interface on planets and at crashed sites, add USS in the black with escape pods so we could have a new profession where you act like a saviour and go around the black looking for stranded escape pods. Turn them in and receive a much higher rewards for escape pods collected outside populated space or far from the bubble. There could also be a multiplier based on the distance from the bubble, for example an escape pod collected at Beagle Point would reward you 50x more than an escape pods found at 1000 LY from Sol.
Again what would be the odds of stumbling onto one. It would be a bit silly if we stumble across these every 10 systems. It would be so rare that it's virtually pointless.

I would prefer more sciency stuff to be honest. Different types of module and/or limpets to do different things such as bio scanners, soil/bio samples and so on.

I would love there to be alien ruins and for all we know there maybe some out there, but the odds of finding them are pretty remote.

I would also like to see some more done with the codex. Missions spinning off from the discoveries in the Codex.
 
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I don't think we necessarily need more things to find. I'd prefer we had more things to do with the stuff we're already finding. Right now, there's absolutely no reason to visit a second Bark Mound, which renders them pretty much pointless.

Imagine instead if we had the ability to take samples from the biological sites we visit (subject to having the correct equipment fitted), then deliver those samples to Science/Research stations scattered throughout the galaxy. Once enough samples from different sites have been collected this would trigger some form of technological breakthrough, resulting in new modules/blueprints/synthesis recipes or whatever. There's actually be a point to finding things, beyond pretty pictures and a tick in the Codex checkbox.
 
Yes, but it's a sci-fi game with misteries and secrets. What we call Lagrangian Cloud could not be a Lagrangian Cloud after all, that's why I said not all would be aggressive. The aggressive ones could be something else and here we leave a veil of mistery.

Indeed. Add danger and gameplay first, then worry about what to call it later. Exploration in ED always felt, and still does, like a placeholder activity. It got marginally better with the FSS and DSS, but while it has some gameplay now it still vastly lacks in features to discover, and gameplay surrounding them. Pretty much everything so far is 'take pictures of it with your shieldless Asp in front' material with pretty much nothing else to do.

Exploration should be somewhat meditative/boring most of the time. But there should be a reasonable number of threats, challenges and scary stuff. Lets hope atmos and space legs will one way add it...
 
I would like to see occasional random enemy threats and resulting combat out in the black against enemies both known and unknown. My ship is built for both exploration and combat (with a bit of cargo space too) and I would love a situation where, thousands of light years from home, I suddenly hear those two magical words: “under attack”.
:)
 
Some of the space life (especially the molluscs) has behavioural traits - it will do X, and if stimulus Y is present it will do Z instead.

You can officially discover these traits - and extend the Codex entries - by composition-scanning them while they're performing this behaviour. How to get them to perform the behaviour is not always obvious - sometimes you just need to watch them for a bit, sometimes you'll need to interact with them, sometimes you'll need to fetch the right bits of equipment to interact with them in a specific way.

Six months in, not every species with traits has had all those traits catalogued to the Codex.

But sure, they're only good for screenshots.
 
Some of the space life (especially the molluscs) has behavioural traits - it will do X, and if stimulus Y is present it will do Z instead.

You can officially discover these traits - and extend the Codex entries - by composition-scanning them while they're performing this behaviour. How to get them to perform the behaviour is not always obvious - sometimes you just need to watch them for a bit, sometimes you'll need to interact with them, sometimes you'll need to fetch the right bits of equipment to interact with them in a specific way.

Six months in, not every species with traits has had all those traits catalogued to the Codex.

But sure, they're only good for screenshots.

Where is this information being collated?
A link would be much appreciated.
 
What would be the odds of finding these. Seems pointless.
...
Nice, but again these would be extremely rare and difficult to find.
...
Again what would be the odds of stumbling onto one.
You're thinking with FDEV minds.
As I said at the beginning of my post, things should not be rare. I don't know why FDEV is hurting their own game so much with this damn "rare" phylosophy.

We should crowdfund a billboard (as they did for Hello Games) in front of Frontier offices with this simple equation, so they don't forget:

Rare Things = Rare Fun = Boring Game
 
Jump - Scan - Map

I was really hoping 3.3 exploration would be an overhaul but it wasn't. They gave us new tools to find what was already in the game.

There is no difference between going 10k ly out of the bubble or 50k ly. You'll still find the exact same things.

I was really hoping that we would have a lot more things to find out there and interact with but finally the Lagrange clouds are so rare that even after over 150k ly of travelling I didn't find a single one on my own...

Exploration doesn't have engaging & challenging gameplay. It's relaxing and give nice sightseeing but that's it.

CODEX is a great addition but even after 7 months we still haven't seen any "rumoured" stuff
 
Where is this information being collated?
A link would be much appreciated.
It's in the Codex entries for the lifeforms themselves. Near the "found in systems with X property" section ... at least, it is if a trait has been discovered. Have a look at the entries for Umbrella Molluscs around Colonia for a couple of examples.

Canonn seem to have a few traits listed on their canonn.science site for a few space species, but don't appear to be making a systematic cataloguing attempt ... and that's more than I've found anywhere else.
 
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