Newcomer / Intro The Python trading ship? "What a Colossal Mistake!" & "Space Time's Orca Review"...

[Space Time]

The Python trading ship? "What a Colossal Mistake!" & "Space Time's Orca Review"...

What a Colossal Mistake trading my Lakon Type-7 in, for a Python as my next ship for trade...

The Bite of the Python...
I have a favorite trade route I know well and everything about it. In a Lakon-7, I spent 3300+ on fuel with every trip, round trip maybe 7000cr. That same trip with a Python... 44,000 cr$ of fuel On the way back from that trade trip, I didn't hit the thrusters... 33,000 cr$ of fuel costs! "WoW! That Thing is HONG-GRY!" So what you may have in any added cargo space over the Lakon-7, you will surely pay for in fuel, plus+some, depending on your cargo profits in what you are hauling It cost me around 7,000,000 cr in lost cr$ to find out that information first hand, so if you want to check it out for yourself, then by all means, "Knock Yourself Out!" Even with the best fuel scoop you'll be spinning around a star forever just to keep that thing's "Need for Feed" going. "That's a Rich Boy's Toy!"

Now I have an Orca...
As this may seem lame to some people because there's no passengers yet, the Orca has some redeeming qualities about it...
That same trade run with an Orca only cost me 4,000 cr$ in fuel one way, and around 8,000+ in fuel costs round trip. At normal speed, it turns about the same as a Lakon-7, "yet at frame-shift speed, it will turn on a dime" as if it's a fighter... "what advantages that is I have no idea"... But it did knock off some of the time spent aiming for jump points during the trip. The Orca has less cargo capacity than the Lakon-7, yet I found that my normally 2,000,000 cr$ per hour was only cut by a slight difference, just totaling around 200,000 less per hour. I found that I really didn't mind that because of the Orca's reduced noise environment and handling.

What I Do Not Like About the Orca...
When at frame-shift speed, it tends to cut off the lower 1/8th of it's speedometer, as if it's always in that slow down warning position when the view moves closer to you because it's time to slow down. I found that this happened without any reason, with no "slow down" warning, it just happens naturally. This is a great setback to such a ship, because when you are heading into and close to your destination and about to get out of frame-shift to enter into the instance of the space station, you have little idea of how fast you are going, because the lower part of the speed indicator is cut off, leaving only 1 of the last 3 bars of speed visible.
"That Needs Fixing Pronto! because it's going to come up allot more later as a problem after we do get passengers and allot more Players are flying them".

I took the guns off the ship because they're only small guns with the stock model and speed is it's weapon. The thrusters made no noticeable difference in fuel consumption and even in a Viper, I'd say that even most Player Pilots would have a hard time catching it.

I'm going to stay with the Orca for now and do some frame-shift acceleration tests and give it a good bit of time to show it's worth. I haven't been interdicted yet, but I am looking forward to it.

So if you've been saying that "you don't know any player that's flying one"... "Well, You Do Now"...

Space Time

 

[M0rdresh]

The Lakon Type-7 is a work art, one should never trade in this ship
On a more serious note, this game does trick you with the price of ships, it should read double, triple that due to fittings and maintenance.

 

[Iskariot]

A question:
Did you upgrade your Python's engines/FSD?
Or did you have the standard modules?

 

[QziQza]

I loved my Python for trading.. yeah was way more expensive to fuel than the 7, but it could land Medium pads, flew like a bird and i made real good credits trading in it> Enough to get me in a Type-9 pretty quickly, now that IS expensive on fuel, but 500t carrying capacity cant be sniffed at lol.

 

[Space Time]

I loved my Python for trading.. yeah was way more expensive to fuel than the 7, but it could land Medium pads, flew like a bird and i made real good credits trading in it> Enough to get me in a Type-9 pretty quickly, now that IS expensive on fuel, but 500t carrying capacity cant be sniffed at lol.

Go ahead and rub it in Rich Commander OziOza! I deserve a spank after blowing 7 to 8 mil in that Elite Dangerous School Yard cr$ beating I took

The Lakon Type-7 is a work art, one should never trade in this ship
On a more serious note, this game does trick you with the price of ships, it should read double, triple that due to fittings and maintenance.

You're totally right Commander MOrdresh on all counts... Everything on that Python costs a Gozillian cr$!

A question:
Did you upgrade your Python's engines/FSD?
Or did you have the standard modules?

Commander Iskariot,
I remember I downgraded the Power Plant for jump distance... I had around 11.70 power supply and the jump distance of that thing was terrible unless you've got the cr$ to make it something.
I had a hard time gaining jump distance without emptying my wallet... I had barely enough left over for insurance... I wish I could remember what Power plant i did get...

WoW that thing is fast and WoW that thing ate my cash fast too!

Space Time

 

[Cmdr Andy B]

I skipped the Python on may way to the type 9 and then came back to it when i had the credits, this is the result:

Spoiler

it has a 155 million credit trade in value and insurance costs of 6.5 million. as you can see she's not rigged for cargo and more focused on a bounty hunting / piracy role.

 

[QziQza]

I think the hardest part of upchanging a ship, is holding off on the purchase until you have the credits to kit it out exactly as you need it, once you get to that point, the earning potential makes up for the added flight costs. I had some good advice from commanders en-route to the Python, but man it was so tempting to just grab it when I could cover the cost of the basic ship glad i didnt though, made things... less painfull! lol

Fly safe Commander Space Time

 

[Roybe]

I feel like I just stepped into a bar full of Imperial wealth! Nice to see how the other half lives! ;P

 

[Pheyes]

All you need to do now is save for that military armour, cheap around the 50 million mark.

 

[Eagle Eye]

Paying for fuel in a trading Python? I have seen them all... I used it to get to the Anaconda after I ditch the horrible T-9. What I did was make it just so:
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=305,,2-3IA07_6uBaA08I,0AA0AA0AA08c08c07205U7Q403w
*Cargo bay door disabled & it's got enough power

After a few round trips when the fuel is about to run out (usually 3 jumps from empty), I swapped the 3E cargo rack for a 3A Scoop (disabled until needed, when in use enable and disable sensor & vice-versa afterward) and at the next star I sit still at 99% heat while scooping at maximum rate for 3 minutes, you now got a full tank, swap the scoop back to a cargo bay at your destination.

Now is you're so hardcore that you can't afford a 3 minutes break every hour or so....

 

[Aquamonkey]

Find a better route and fuel cost will be almost trivial. Back when i was using Python for trading, I was making 773,000 cr round trip. Or use a fuel scoop.

 

[Regulator]

As soon as I went the python route I fuel scooped and never cost me a dime for fuel after that!!

 

[Space Time]

As soon as I went the python route I fuel scooped and never cost me a dime for fuel after that!!

I'd say, like ice cream, it needs 2 scoops

Find a better route and fuel cost will be almost trivial. Back when i was using Python for trading, I was making 773,000 cr round trip. Or use a fuel scoop.

This is a good indecator that I have a good trade route, only now with less bang for it's buck. I did make 700,000+ on the way back with the extra cargo space hauling Palladium. On the way there, I think is where my added cr$ for the trip went upside-down hauling Pro Cells...

Paying for fuel in a trading Python? I have seen them all... I used it to get to the Anaconda after I ditch the horrible T-9. What I did was make it just so:
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=305,,2-3IA07_6uBaA08I,0AA0AA0AA08c08c07205U7Q403w
*Cargo bay door disabled & it's got enough power

After a few round trips when the fuel is about to run out (usually 3 jumps from empty), I swapped the 3E cargo rack for a 3A Scoop (disabled until needed, when in use enable and disable sensor & vice-versa afterward) and at the next star I sit still at 99% heat while scooping at maximum rate for 3 minutes, you now got a full tank, swap the scoop back to a cargo bay at your destination.

Now is you're so hardcore that you can't afford a 3 minutes break every hour or so....

That looks like a sweet ship... "Yet I can't help but to feel that it's made out of paper with that armor and being such a sought after target".

All you need to do now is save for that military armour, cheap around the 50 million mark.

Power Plant, Thrusters, Power Distributor, Frame-Shift Drive and then Armor is my plan of priority (I think ) for the Orca. I had 4 point defense I carried over from my Lakon-7. They never did me wrong and killed missiles long before the missile warning went off. I don't know if that's the right way, but with different fields of fire and no need for a heat sink, they seemed to be my solution. I did ditch my chaff because it was just one more button to push retracting the hardpoints before making the escape jump. The Lakon-7 did take hits very well, loosing shields in each encounter only meant 100 to 300 cr of damage to repair on it at the destination. I got hit in the Lakon-7 3 times in a row once, all events the same, and came out with1000+ cr of damage to repair.
So I'm thinking that's my plan this time as well with the Orca "Or I could be totally wrong because I've only been playing since late December".

I think the hardest part of upchanging a ship, is holding off on the purchase until you have the credits to kit it out exactly as you need it, once you get to that point, the earning potential makes up for the added flight costs. I had some good advice from commanders en-route to the Python, but man it was so tempting to just grab it when I could cover the cost of the basic ship glad i didnt though, made things... less painfull! lol

Fly safe Commander Space Time

"I truly thought I had this one covered before I purchased", by adding 3 mil for improvements, 2 mil for cargo costs and another 3 mil for insurance... Was I wrong on that one or not?.. "I was way wrong on that one!"

I feel like I just stepped into a bar full of Imperial wealth! Nice to see how the other half lives! ;P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lXTyQ3xhY4
I should have payed more attention to those price tags and jump distances in this Video by my Video Hero Kornelius Briedis...

I skipped the Python on may way to the type 9 and then came back to it when i had the credits, this is the result:

Spoiler

View attachment 11761

it has a 155 million credit trade in value and insurance costs of 6.5 million. as you can see she's not rigged for cargo and more focused on a bounty hunting / piracy role.

(*Note to self: Run from Commander Andy B.)
This is the exact reason why we need better "EVERYTHING"

For now, I'll be staying with the Orca to find out all it's ticks and toc about it. But there is a few other things about the Orca worth mentioning...
I had my first interdiction attempt and with little effort at all, I evaded it in 4 seconds. Maybe that's it's nimbleness at Frame-Shift Speed, "maybe not" only Time will tell . But also, it's radar's bottom gets cut off very easily where the pilot has little idea of what is following. Maybe that's because it's not that important to see, "being the current fastest known large ship" (who knows, maybe it can catch that UFO mentioned in the dangerous Discussions thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=106804 ). I truly haven't tested how fast the Orca gets to 512c yet, so maybe I'll do that today. The other thing worth mentioning is the small fuel tank, as it seems to have a 16 Fuel Unit limit it can carry. This indicates to me that future passenger trips may be short, or needing gas stations or a fuel scoop as standard equipment.

The Orca has very few known pilots right now (I think there must be one more besides me), so there's not allot of experienced Orca pilots that have taken the time to fly this thing a long time and know all it's ins and outs...
"But I'm Sure Going to Find Out!"

Orca Passenger of One...
Space Time

 

[Aleksej]

If you are worse in making Cr in Python than with T7 than you are doing something wrong. I was earning far more flying the Python as opposed to T7 and I've never used fuel scoops while trading. Given that a maximum cargo capacity of T7 is 232t and on a Python I would use 284t and D3 shield generator it would give you at least 100k Cr more per bi-directional trading route (assuming 1k Cr per ton profit bi-directional). Full fuel refuel of the Python is 120-130k Cr so unless you are performing 5-6 large jumps per your trading route you should not have any problems.

In addition Python is faster and the probability of becoming a target for Pirates, especially other players is much lower. Well, almost 0.

I skipped the Python on may way to the type 9 and then came back to it when i had the credits, this is the result:

Spoiler

View attachment 11761

it has a 155 million credit trade in value and insurance costs of 6.5 million. as you can see she's not rigged for cargo and more focused on a bounty hunting / piracy role.

That's slightly strange for me to see this configuration for the following reasons:
1. Forced interdiction causes ship damage (and definitely most of the interacted ships do not submit). The repairs for such damage may easily cost you about 70k Cr (3% damage during interdiction). So I would not interdict using a Python. This is something that should be done on a smaller and cheap ships.
2. Standard docking computer - Python is very slim, you can easily get past through the T9 that is getting inside or out of the station. It only occupies additional important internal compartment. Moreover, with A6 shield generator your ship should take a really heavy hit to even slightly damage the shields.
3. Auto-field maintenance unit - who needs it on a Python having A6 shield generator and shield cell banks? You are not going to lose the shields easily in this configuration and as shields recharge way too long, it is a good idea to get away from there if you are starting running low on shields and there are no shield cell banks left.

 

[Space Time]

"Python"... "The BMW Cargo Wagon?"

If you are worse in making Cr in Python than with T7 than you are doing something wrong. I was earning far more flying the Python as opposed to T7 and I've never used fuel scoops while trading. Given that a maximum cargo capacity of T7 is 232t and on a Python I would use 284t and D3 shield generator it would give you at least 100k Cr more per bi-directional trading route (assuming 1k Cr per ton profit bi-directional). Full fuel refuel of the Python is 120-130k Cr so unless you are performing 5-6 large jumps per your trading route you should not have any problems.

In addition Python is faster and the probability of becoming a target for Pirates, especially other players is much lower. Well, almost 0.

That Python's jump distance is way short', how did you ever get past that? I mean in it's stock configuration, "it won't even jump 10"...

This is probably a question of having enough cr$ to properly outfit it for a cargo carrier, "so what would you say is needing to be spent on rigging a stock Python for a cargo role?"
But more importantly, "how restricted in jumping distance would such a craft be?"

If the jump distance of a freshly cargo fitted Python is more restrictive than the known or well traveled routes of it's prospective buyer, then I believe the buyer should scout a more accommodating trade route for it before purchase.
Having said all that, "there's is definitely some study and schooling to be done before taking on one of these larger ships". My Newby thoughts of the Lakon-9 Heavy are that it's slow, it's fat and it makes a great target.

The Orca on the other hand is an "unfinished craft"...
Not because it's radar and speed display get cut off whenever it's not accelerating as I've said before, "but because there's a design flaw that creates a glitch line above it's radar display", that never goes away and obviously not a part of it's display.

Other than that, I can now say that it can fit through the space station doorway even sideways, but it's a tight fit. It goes from side to side and up and down within the station very swiftly for it's size much the same as a Cobra, yet does not turn well under power, much the same as the Lakon-7.
I don't think it needs any more maneuverability at frame-shift drive speed, as, "if it did have any more maneuverability than it does have, it would be almost unmanageable". Over-shooting your destination is no problem at all, because of the Orca's agility at light speeds. I'm currently saving for an "A-5" Frame-Shift Drive for it to get it's jumping distance out to 13.96. There are a few other things that will increase that jump range, but not by much more than that.
So far, I've only placed into it a few cargo spots and taken out the discovery scanner for a bit more. I've installed some "D-6" Thrusters and upgraded it's Power Plant to a "B-5". I haven't downgraded anything and do have plans to add the 49 mil,cr armor and add some guns after that... "but that's still a long way off".

My Python dreams are shattered until I find out more about how to outfit it for trade and get it's jump distance enough to make my known trade routes worth while... until I can discover some shorter ones...

Thanks for the answers if anyone has any about that "stock to trade ship" Python load out info... and any recommendations for the Orca in the mean time is greatly appreciated as well

Space Time

 

[steffenduckert]

Im happy with my Python I´m making around 3 mill/h after fuel cost

 

[QziQza]

This is probably a question of having enough cr$ to properly outfit it for a cargo carrier, "so what would you say is needing to be spent on rigging a stock Python for a cargo role?"
But more importantly, "how restricted in jumping distance would such a craft be?"

~65million to buy and gear up ~4million Ins ~2-3million for cargo

That would give you a 284t haul with a 16.2ly jump range. and there is still room to strip off a little more weight, i just like to fly with at least some way to fight back, not that thats really needed, the Python is a great escape artist in a tight spot. And if you were concerned about dropping to a class 3D shield, you could always lose 4ton cargo and go with an A2 Shield Cell to add a little breathing room and provide a little more comfort

Link To this Build

 

[Mikey2305]

@eagleeye... That is excellent advice which i hadnt considered on my asp. Rep to you sir...

 

[Space Time]

My Updated Progress...

@eagleeye... That is excellent advice which i hadnt considered on my asp. Rep to you sir...

I think you're very correct Commander Mikey2305!
It's things like these 3 posts that are what keeps us coming back to our Newcomer's Forums and to our community forums in general.
"Placing your money where your mouth is", is a truly revealing school to learn about the costly complexities of our game. Little changes to smaller ships didn't cause me to further investigate how costly with the large ships that changes of parts could be.
"Big Kudos to these 3 Commanders"

I skipped the Python on may way to the type 9 and then came back to it when i had the credits, this is the result:

Spoiler

View attachment 11761

it has a 155 million credit trade in value and insurance costs of 6.5 million. as you can see she's not rigged for cargo and more focused on a bounty hunting / piracy role.

Paying for fuel in a trading Python? I have seen them all... I used it to get to the Anaconda after I ditch the horrible T-9. What I did was make it just so:
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=305,,2-3IA07_6uBaA08I,0AA0AA0AA08c08c07205U7Q403w
*Cargo bay door disabled & it's got enough power

After a few round trips when the fuel is about to run out (usually 3 jumps from empty), I swapped the 3E cargo rack for a 3A Scoop (disabled until needed, when in use enable and disable sensor & vice-versa afterward) and at the next star I sit still at 99% heat while scooping at maximum rate for 3 minutes, you now got a full tank, swap the scoop back to a cargo bay at your destination.

Now is you're so hardcore that you can't afford a 3 minutes break every hour or so....

~65million to buy and gear up ~4million Ins ~2-3million for cargo

That would give you a 284t haul with a 16.2ly jump range. and there is still room to strip off a little more weight, i just like to fly with at least some way to fight back, not that thats really needed, the Python is a great escape artist in a tight spot. And if you were concerned about dropping to a class 3D shield, you could always lose 4ton cargo and go with an A2 Shield Cell to add a little breathing room and provide a little more comfort

Link To this Build

Wow, I can see where I failed with my first attempt Commander QziQza. I went in just short of 64,000,000 not realizing what I was up against when outfitting. I actually didn't have a specific plan for it's upgrades and was relying on my inept estimates based on the idea of "I can always make up any cr$ shortfall with some easy cheap trading". I felt confidant because I was over shooting the purchase price by around 5 to 6 mil cr. and I didn't take into account that such a large upgrade sum is actually quite small by % of the Python purchase price. The Cobra and every other mid range ship actually depicts such a percentage of needed upgrades for it's pilot's intended mission after purchase. I made a big mistake, similar to one I had encountered when first outfitting my first Cobra, yet with larger ships, small mistakes costs big bucks to the beginner. In hindsight, I should have excepted what role the stock version was outfitted for and creep my way back up to "what I" intended it for. I think by taking the "me" and what I wanted, out of that equation, things would have been a much better outcome, but more importantly, not have been just looking at the cargo amount and jumping for it without knowing enough about the ship

I'll have some time to contemplate and see the reasoning within all the modifications that have been presented here before I ever leap again into any large dream ship, learning as much as I can along the way. I think what I have learned from this thread by way of these examples, has much more to learn about our game from them. That first 44,000cr fuel bill was a wake up call "that things were not completely known that needed to be before purchase, or before modification from what the ship's stock model mission was. When I downgraded the engines, I placed more demand on those smaller engines resulting in that first huge fuel bill. I guess it was like placing a lawnmower engine inside a pickup truck and expecting it to have little difference

I will be re-buying a Python soon with allot more knowledge than when I first went into it. But for now, I'll use that time to contemplate what I've learned here and come out the other end a much more knowledgeable Commander about "everything".

Until then, I'll be using the time I have with the Orca to learn more about it. One of the small things I noticed (as a newby) last night, was that the Orca has an extremely low heat and noise signature. It's actually the lowest I've seen in any ship large or small and runs at an almost constant 38% heat signature. I believe if I had the right education in silent running, "then it may be the best smuggling ship within the game thus far". So, I'm attempting to learn how to run silent now by watching some videos and attempting to evade being scanned by the Space Station's Police Force. I know that I don't know enough about silent running because I've been caught every time thus far... and maybe such a large ship can't do it... but I'm still looking for more information on more advanced silent running than I've seen so far in youtube video.

By using the Orca as a trade ship, it will take me about 1-2 weeks... maybe 3, to build up enough cr$ to make that Python leap again. But I'll certainly have more cr$ and will not go into it lightly as I did before. I plan on having 70Kcr before I make that leap again. But that brings up another ship of study to be learned before buying, "the Type-9 Heavy" at around 72mil.cr... "of which I am sure that it too has some refitting cautions from it's stock model just as the Python did".

There's allot to study about this game, even though it has a very friendly user interface, "it's a deeper game than on it's surface".

Thanks Commanders! I'll be watching and listening "very closely now!"

Know any good places to learn more about advanced silent running?
Space Time

Update....
I currently have the amount needed for me to make another attempt at being a Python owner with a cargo set up as described in this set up posted by QziQza;
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=305,7u57u54yH7u57u50Wg0mI,2-8SA07_6u8SA08I,0AA0AA0AA08c08c0727Q405U03w
"But I will wait until I have 70,000,000cr before taking the plunge again".

This is what I built in the mean time by sticking with the Orca while I saved cr$. All of this amounts to just under 64,000,000cr + a little left over for cargo and ins.
"The Orca rigged for the longest range and largest cargo capacity it can be outfitted for", (with docking computer)
Armor (standard paper armor)
A-5 Power Plant
D-5 Thrusters
A-5 Frame Shift Drive
D-4 Power Distributor
D-4 Shield Generator (I tried no shields which gave me 188 cargo capacity, but even with TLC on docking, I still got 9000cr damage per docking)
Cargo Capacity = 172 (with docking computer... it's just one less thing I have to do for flying it)
Jump Range around 14.26 with full cargo. <---<<< but that's as far as it gets... "with adding guns, it's all down hill from there", but with plenty of power to spare.
I have No Guns, 2 point defense, and 2 heat sinks for stealth silent running tests (but 1 would probably do)...

With this set up, an hour of trading in it currently amounts to just under 2,000,000 per hour.
"and I can't wait to try the Python again! But the Orca is a fun ship and I can imagine that with passengers, will come close to what can be made with a Python"...

Space Time