A hot topic here - there's love and hate on both sides when it comes to the Engineers.
I'll be the first to say, I was pretty excited when I read:
So I quickly set about trying to find and make use of these Engineers.. it didn't take too long for me to get the go-ahead to land at Farseer Inc. Then imagine my surprise...
Yeah, Felicity has a little history burb. I can't tell you what it said, because it really didn't make any difference.
And she did choose to help me, because I hauled a pair of meta-alloys all the way from Maia for her.
So then I set about to find this "loot" that would "change my game", and I suppose it did - I wasn't running missions, or shooting down bad guys for bounty money - I was searching for Specialized Legacy Firmware, and scouring planets, becoming the Scourge of Rocks, in search of Arsenic.
I'd not smuggled anything to any of these Engineers, and in the end, I crafted a ship JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER.
I'd been Casey Jonesed, and it was a sad day in Mudville indeed.
A brief skim through these very forums doesn't take long to figure out we're all crafting ships just like every other ship out there. There's not a whole lot of variance, because every possible combination of every possible upgrade has been made, tested, proven or disproven, and in the end, there are only a few things anyone really uses. And our Engineers are sadly lacking as any kind of actual crafting system. As a lottery, as a roulette wheel, they're spot on though.
But it's not too late - we can rebuild them. We have the technology. We can make them better than they are.
And we can do it without having to remodel and rebalance combat through another 50 iterations.
Where to begin...
Let's start with Loot...
The random bits and pieces we find for making basic upgrades are fine, even the hard-to-find, less-than-rare ones (like CIF).
But the method currently used - insert materials and pray leaves far too much to be desired. A progressive approach would be far better. How would that work?
So, let's start with Felicity and her Increased FSD Range, because let's face it, it's the only FSD upgrade anyone does.
At Rank 1, you currently get a random result which includes:
-5%-0% change in Drive Integrity
0%-5% increase in FSD module mass
4%-10% increase to Optimized Mass (one factor of range increase).
and a 0%-4% increase in power draw.
I propose a different method.
At Rank 1, with no FDS modifications, you receive a flat -1% decrease in integrity, a 1% increase in FSD mass, a 2% increase in Optimized Mass, and 1% increase in power draw.
After that, add the random misc. effects, the possibility for additional fuel consumption (also increases range), or a bonus/penalty to power draw, module mass or integrity - kind of like what we have now, but don't touch the Optimized Mass.
This would require 5 such upgrades to reach the height of Rank 1 FSD engineering, which so happens to be the exact number of Rank 1 Upgrades required to unlock Rank 2 upgrades.
These would become progressive upgrades, with the former upgrade applied on top of the previous, until you reach
-5% Integrity, +5% Module Mass, +10% Optimized Mass, +4% Power Draw (sans any secondary effects magic), and begin progressing through Rank 2, and then Rank 3, and so on, until Felicity can no longer upgrade your FDS any longer, or you bring in a new ship for new upgrades.
Now this is where things get interesting.. you now have unlocked up to Grade 5 upgrades.
This currently gives you a range of effects as well:
-12%-25% Integrirty
+20-45% Mass
+20%-50% Optimized Mass
+10-20% Power Draw
We know heads would explode if we had to repeat the above process, spending countless minutes gathering materials to work through upgrade after upgrade, and even just starting at Grade 5, having to progress through the upgrades, even though it would take only a few minutes of click-click-click-click-click to complete. Instead, Felicity would simply apply the highest level of upgrade you've already worked your way though - so if you've made that handful of Grade 5 upgrades to produce:
-25% Integrity, +45% Mass, +50% Optimized Mass, +20% Power Draw (and then Secondary effects magic), that's upgrade you get.
It still has some random element in the secondary effects, but the base outcome is predictable, desirable, and makes the effort feel more worthwhile. It might still be painful, but far less so.
This same progressive methodology could be applied to every and any upgrade, allowing for a lot less Spin The Wheel, and a lot more crafting.
Which then brings us to the next ReEngineering bit:
Salvage
The addition of a "Salvaged Module Components" item, dropped by blown up ships, or found in wreckage on planets can be used to curry "Favors" with engineers. Rather than just being a Repeat Customer award as it is now. Find one of these, take it to an Engineer, and Donate it, much like we do with the various things Engineers ask for when unlocking them (such as Felicity's 2 Meta-Alloys) to earn favors and unlock Special Effects.
Largely right now Special Effects are limited to Weapons, but there's no reason each and every module couldn't have a Special Effect. Since we've been talking FSDs, we'll stick with this. What would be a suitable FSD Special Effect? How about "Interdiction Resistance", which has the effect of slowing the Escape Vector's movement, as an example. By finding a "Salvaged Module Component" item, and hauling it out to Felicity, she can then research this Component (which can take place in real-time and generate a pop-up message, much like we do with Ship Transfers). Each of these turned over for Research gains a Favor, which can be applied AT ANY TIME, not just when the initial Engineering is done, and that Effect stays with the Module, even if it is Re-Engineered later.
Applying these Special Effects can still have the same Secondary Effects, so applying an "Interdiction Resistant" effect to an FSD might have the secondary effect of Increasing the Heat produced by an FSD, or raise it's mass, or even decrease its integrity - again, these secondary effects can be applied randomly.
But this would make our Engineers feel much more like Engineers, and would, I believe, greatly improve the entire Engineering system, and allow for both greater levels of customization and personalization that is sorely missing.
Thoughts?
I'll be the first to say, I was pretty excited when I read:
So I quickly set about trying to find and make use of these Engineers.. it didn't take too long for me to get the go-ahead to land at Farseer Inc. Then imagine my surprise...
Yeah, Felicity has a little history burb. I can't tell you what it said, because it really didn't make any difference.
And she did choose to help me, because I hauled a pair of meta-alloys all the way from Maia for her.
So then I set about to find this "loot" that would "change my game", and I suppose it did - I wasn't running missions, or shooting down bad guys for bounty money - I was searching for Specialized Legacy Firmware, and scouring planets, becoming the Scourge of Rocks, in search of Arsenic.
I'd not smuggled anything to any of these Engineers, and in the end, I crafted a ship JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER.
I'd been Casey Jonesed, and it was a sad day in Mudville indeed.
A brief skim through these very forums doesn't take long to figure out we're all crafting ships just like every other ship out there. There's not a whole lot of variance, because every possible combination of every possible upgrade has been made, tested, proven or disproven, and in the end, there are only a few things anyone really uses. And our Engineers are sadly lacking as any kind of actual crafting system. As a lottery, as a roulette wheel, they're spot on though.
But it's not too late - we can rebuild them. We have the technology. We can make them better than they are.
And we can do it without having to remodel and rebalance combat through another 50 iterations.
Where to begin...
Let's start with Loot...
The random bits and pieces we find for making basic upgrades are fine, even the hard-to-find, less-than-rare ones (like CIF).
But the method currently used - insert materials and pray leaves far too much to be desired. A progressive approach would be far better. How would that work?
So, let's start with Felicity and her Increased FSD Range, because let's face it, it's the only FSD upgrade anyone does.
At Rank 1, you currently get a random result which includes:
-5%-0% change in Drive Integrity
0%-5% increase in FSD module mass
4%-10% increase to Optimized Mass (one factor of range increase).
and a 0%-4% increase in power draw.
I propose a different method.
At Rank 1, with no FDS modifications, you receive a flat -1% decrease in integrity, a 1% increase in FSD mass, a 2% increase in Optimized Mass, and 1% increase in power draw.
After that, add the random misc. effects, the possibility for additional fuel consumption (also increases range), or a bonus/penalty to power draw, module mass or integrity - kind of like what we have now, but don't touch the Optimized Mass.
This would require 5 such upgrades to reach the height of Rank 1 FSD engineering, which so happens to be the exact number of Rank 1 Upgrades required to unlock Rank 2 upgrades.
These would become progressive upgrades, with the former upgrade applied on top of the previous, until you reach
-5% Integrity, +5% Module Mass, +10% Optimized Mass, +4% Power Draw (sans any secondary effects magic), and begin progressing through Rank 2, and then Rank 3, and so on, until Felicity can no longer upgrade your FDS any longer, or you bring in a new ship for new upgrades.
Now this is where things get interesting.. you now have unlocked up to Grade 5 upgrades.
This currently gives you a range of effects as well:
-12%-25% Integrirty
+20-45% Mass
+20%-50% Optimized Mass
+10-20% Power Draw
We know heads would explode if we had to repeat the above process, spending countless minutes gathering materials to work through upgrade after upgrade, and even just starting at Grade 5, having to progress through the upgrades, even though it would take only a few minutes of click-click-click-click-click to complete. Instead, Felicity would simply apply the highest level of upgrade you've already worked your way though - so if you've made that handful of Grade 5 upgrades to produce:
-25% Integrity, +45% Mass, +50% Optimized Mass, +20% Power Draw (and then Secondary effects magic), that's upgrade you get.
It still has some random element in the secondary effects, but the base outcome is predictable, desirable, and makes the effort feel more worthwhile. It might still be painful, but far less so.
This same progressive methodology could be applied to every and any upgrade, allowing for a lot less Spin The Wheel, and a lot more crafting.
Which then brings us to the next ReEngineering bit:
Salvage
The addition of a "Salvaged Module Components" item, dropped by blown up ships, or found in wreckage on planets can be used to curry "Favors" with engineers. Rather than just being a Repeat Customer award as it is now. Find one of these, take it to an Engineer, and Donate it, much like we do with the various things Engineers ask for when unlocking them (such as Felicity's 2 Meta-Alloys) to earn favors and unlock Special Effects.
Largely right now Special Effects are limited to Weapons, but there's no reason each and every module couldn't have a Special Effect. Since we've been talking FSDs, we'll stick with this. What would be a suitable FSD Special Effect? How about "Interdiction Resistance", which has the effect of slowing the Escape Vector's movement, as an example. By finding a "Salvaged Module Component" item, and hauling it out to Felicity, she can then research this Component (which can take place in real-time and generate a pop-up message, much like we do with Ship Transfers). Each of these turned over for Research gains a Favor, which can be applied AT ANY TIME, not just when the initial Engineering is done, and that Effect stays with the Module, even if it is Re-Engineered later.
Applying these Special Effects can still have the same Secondary Effects, so applying an "Interdiction Resistant" effect to an FSD might have the secondary effect of Increasing the Heat produced by an FSD, or raise it's mass, or even decrease its integrity - again, these secondary effects can be applied randomly.
But this would make our Engineers feel much more like Engineers, and would, I believe, greatly improve the entire Engineering system, and allow for both greater levels of customization and personalization that is sorely missing.
Thoughts?
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