The REAL reason this launch gets me angry.

What attracted me to elite was the fan base. It's fairly rare to see a fanbase this dedicated and welcoming. Elite has customers that other games developers dream to have.

They release a broken poorly tested DLC and everyone is pitching in to help. And this is what ticks me off.

I can't shake the feeling that Frontier is taking advantage of their fans. Release the PC version as early as possible so the fans can test things out and we'll have a good DLC for the consoles. That's lazy management.

I've seen this kind of behavior with engineering projects. Either someone up top is running his/ her people with an iron first; or lied on their resume and is woefully incompetent (or both). Or some bean counter is saving cost hiring young workers out of school and throwing them into the fire without checking their work.
 
I can't shake the feeling that Frontier is taking advantage of their fans. Release the PC version as early as possible so the fans can test things out and we'll have a good DLC for the consoles.
I seriously doubt that it was intentional.

Bad rep is bad for business and that Mostly Negative review in Steam + negative reception in video game journalism hardly is desirable salewise, especially since the majority of their customers are on PC if I'm not mistaken.
 
I mean, if they were just taking advantage of their fan base, they would have delayed launch and sold access to the beta test avoiding as much backlash and any bad press.

"In the old days" developers would typically sell their games at a discount (typically around 50%) in an effort to entice people to participate in the beta.

Guess that's not his anyone does things anymore.
 
I want to make it clear before I get into this, that Elite and Frontier are deserving of criticism.
There is no pretending that Odyssey was not a bad release.
My point is to make sure that the community are understanding of where our place in all this is, and why we are not free of all the blame.

Elite has customers that other games developers dream to have.
This is disingenuous or ignorant. Of course you are going to say that about yourself.
Most legitimate game developers have dedicated fans.
So, by "other game developers" do you mean the outright scammers on kickstarter? I would say those shouldn't be counted.

I've been on a fair few forums(Eve Online 2011-2013, Bethesda 2009-2016, STALKER 2012-2013*), I've never seen a community so vitriolic and Toxic. Since the games release(initial release, late 2014), the game has been derided.
Powerplay, Engineers, the SDC fiasco, fleet carriers, and now Odyssey. There is a long track record of the "fans" dumping on Elite and Frontier.
While there definitely was legitimate criticism of these releases, a lot of which I agree with. There was more outright hate with plenty of calls for people to be fired.

The community management team is a revolving door. Anybody remember when Ed used to actually do community management? I miss that guy.
Many of the development leads are no longer working on the project. Anybody seen Michael Brooks, Sandro Samarco, Adam Woods?

Your post reads as a blatant attempt to excuse or deflect criticism on the community.

*Highlighting examples of supportive forums and the times I was present. Not every forum or community I have been a part of.
 
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This is disingenuous or ignorant. Of course you are going to say that about yourself.

Hmmm... projecting a bit? I was referring to MY experience with other fans of the game, not myself.


Your post reads as a blatant attempt to excuse or deflect criticism on the community.

I think you need to reread my post. Deflecting criticism on the community? I'm trying to get Frontier to be held accountable.

But I guess we all read what we want to read.
 
Hmmm... projecting a bit? I was referring to MY experience with other fans of the game, not myself.
The "projecting" accusation is becoming tired. It's misused 90% of the time. I don't think you are projecting. I don't think I am projecting.
I do think you misused it here. Since, by definition, it is about displacing ones feelings on another.
I did not address feelings. I addressed intent.
Additionally, both of us are part of this community. Your praise of the community encompasses myself as much as you, but I reject it.

I think we both could agree that we want Frontier to 'get their act together', so to speak.
I disagree with your methods. Pretending that the community is somehow... something special, I feel is wrong.
Even then, my attempts to defend Frontier actually lean into your argument. I'm not trying to elevate myself here.

I will, however, agree that 90% of the accountability is on Frontier.
The communities poor behavior was enabled by them. When it became too much, the Developers disappeared.
One particularly good example is the SDC incident.

If you don't know, the SDC(smiling dog crew, IIRC) was a greifer troll group.
They were absolutely despised by the greater community. They frequently used exploits, attacked new players, if there was a big event or discovery, they were there picking on the CMDRs who couldn't defend themselves(explorers, traders). Despite what is arguably anti-social and exploitive behavior, in addition to the sentiments of the greater community, Frontier was supportive and even buddy-buddy with them.
Then the SDC revealed all the research and investigation into how Frontier does(or rather doesn't) handle combat logging(an exploitive way to get out of unwanted combat). They created fake accounts to repeatedly combat log. They reported these accounts for combat logging. Frontier, who said they would punish exploits, did nothing to these accounts.
At the reveal of this information, Frontier apologized and promised to take immediate action. They still supported and were buddy-buddy with the SDC.
Several months later, SDC pulled the same thing again. Revealing Frontier did nothing since the first incident.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but this time, Frontier did NOT respond. Their support of this group mysteriously disappeared. Frontiers communication with the community was already in decline, but this is when it took a sharper dip.

TLDR: Frontier was supportive of a despised group in the community, who then proceeded to stab them in the back TWICE.

Regardless of what you think of Frontier in the above story, the SDC was openly abusive towards them and the community, and Frontier allowed and enabled it.

So, yeah, the community is not in a good state. It has always had problems, and Frontier has been consistently enabling that behaviour.
The lack of communication is certainly adding to the problems.
I understand that many of the Developers would not want to reach out, but it requires both groups(community and developers) to work something out.
 
"Never attribute to malice what can be accounted for by stupidity."

Sadly, not the first time I've found myself moved to post this quote on these forums.

5cazaa.jpg
 

I'm not reading the whole thing, feel free to check for yourself! :D
 

I'm not reading the whole thing, feel free to check for yourself! :D
Honestly, I checked there before Googling it directly as I was intending to just post which rule it was.

Closest is 69. Ferengi are not responsible for the stupidity of other races.
 
I seriously doubt that it was intentional.

Two possibilities:

1) FDev decision maker WAS well aware of issues or lack of testing and decided to release the product anyway. A very intentional conscious decision was made.

2) FDev decision maker was NOT aware of the state of the game, thought it was sufficiently complete and tested and ready for release.


I certainly hope it was option #1 and we just don't know all the reasons behind decisions. Okee dokee. If option #2 holy crap batman, FDev has major issues far beyond making a video game.
 
Two possibilities
I was referring to what OP suggested - that game was intentionally published half finished to be fixed with customer feedback for console release and that this was the plan all along. I seriously doubt that was the case.

I'm sure they knew that the game was dreadfully buggy when they published it and yes, to publish the game in that phase was obviously intentional. Why it happened was probably because they predicted the needed dev time overly optimistically and had both customer and financial pressure to release the DLC without more delaying.
 
I seriously doubt that it was intentional.

Bad rep is bad for business and that Mostly Negative review in Steam + negative reception in video game journalism hardly is desirable salewise, especially since the majority of their customers are on PC if I'm not mistaken.

My id guess with certainty that it was intentional. Braben and the marketing team took a calculated gamble that they would get away with it anyway, because of all the white knights etc. Id say it was close to impossible that they didn't know the state of the game internally, and if they were lied to, could surely fire and or sue people for doing so.
 
My id guess with certainty that it was intentional. Braben and the marketing team took a calculated gamble that they would get away with it anyway, because of all the money it would make them etc. Id say it was close to impossible that they didn't know the state of the game internally, and if they were lied to, could surely fire and or sue people for doing so.
Fixed that for you. 👍
 
I can't shake the feeling that Frontier is taking advantage of their fans. Release the PC version as early as possible so the fans can test things out and we'll have a good DLC for the consoles

I mean, that's literally exactly what they're doing.

They knew exactly what state it was in. It's why theres two separate versions.

But they wanted to be able to slap the profits of Odyssey on their 2021 annual investors report, so they shoved it out the door, handed their PR team some coffee and said "G'luck!"

So now we get 3 weeks of updates, then to enjoy whatever's left in 5+ long month beta while they try and fix the broken mess so it'll even run on consoles.
 
Two possibilities:

1) FDev decision maker WAS well aware of issues or lack of testing and decided to release the product anyway. A very intentional conscious decision was made.

2) FDev decision maker was NOT aware of the state of the game, thought it was sufficiently complete and tested and ready for release.


I certainly hope it was option #1 and we just don't know all the reasons behind decisions. Okee dokee. If option #2 holy crap batman, FDev has major issues far beyond making a video game.
But if it was either one, it shows a tremendous amount of incompetence from the higher-ups at FD. Especially so soon after the disaster that was Cyberpunk, which did sell good, but which got so bad reception, that the sales ground to almost halt after the pre-sales and release sales. I can only assume, the reception of Odyssey has made the sales run to a wall.
 
Sorry, but looking at Odyssey and playing it for several hours leads me to the conclusion that this was intentional. There are so many bugs in this game that you can't oversee them if you are not blind.
Read the context of my post, I already specificed it once. Mere existence of bugs in release hardly confirms that it was planned to be half broken from the beginning.
 
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