The recent anti pvp ideas concern me. Reasons and "better" suggestions inside

[rckstr]

Better solution: Have a PvP/PvE switch. Include a holddown timer and use the mode difference for instancing.

I could live with that. Cooldown and different instance. Sounds good to me.

That's a deal breaker. I'm against that.

I respect that you don't like it but if we are honest it doesn't make sense. If you take a mission for a faction you should gain +rep for that minor faction and -rep by the minor faction you worked against. If both are from different major factions your rep should change accordingly, if both minor factions belong to the same major faction only your minor rep should change.

That's a bad idea as it would add further tedium. Better: Roll back the detrimental changes in the bounty system and get rid of "speeding". Players that want to be rammed only by NPCs and not players can turn off PvP while docking.

I could live with that.

However, it must be kept in mind that there are issues far more important than balancing the game for open players only.

There definitely are other and also more important issues. But my suggestions don't make a difference between acts against other cmdrs or NPC's, so everyone would "profit" from it.

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There will not be a 'switch', so any idea based on that can be disposed of instantly. You seem to like to be able to toggle of challenges abd get max rewards without consequences (such as max rep with everyone). To each his own ofcourse, but that is not what Elite ultimately aspires to be, and its best if we're honest about that.

As far as i understand his idea of the switch would be a shortcut to what we already have. The only difference is that, and this is actually a good idea, there is a cooldown in between switching modes. Of course seconds would be useless but several minutes might work.

 

[Zelos1983]

I respect that you don't like it but if we are honest it doesn't make sense. If you take a mission for a faction you should gain +rep for that minor faction and -rep by the minor faction you worked against. If both are from different major factions your rep should change accordingly, if both minor factions belong to the same major faction only your minor rep should change.

It does. Think from an RP perspective: You are a trader or an explorer and you do good stuff for every of the three factions. Why would, for example, the Federation care that the Empire get's exploration data from you? They are happy that you trade in their systems and boost their economy.

There are no sanctions or embargos in place that forbid travelling or trading to the respective citizens.

 

[rckstr]

if you have npcs that show more skill than human Commanders, the Solo players may flock to Open to get some help from other players. The bang bang gang club is hard to identify. Some no faction with no bounties cmdrs start shooting at you, some victims might freeze as a deer in headlights. If they have bounties you have been warned. Removing danger from the game makes it lame. I remember I got destroyed after an exploration trip and it was very frustrating. Quit the game for some months, but got back with interest and I pay attention now.

The developers could also introduce beside Open/Solo/Group the Lame mode. Where you are invincible. That should solve all the problems.

I don't remember someone suggesting to remove the danger. Every action should just cause a fitting reaction, that's all.

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It does. Think from an RP perspective: You are a trader or an explorer and you do good stuff for every of the three factions. Why would, for example, the Federation care that the Empire get's exploration data from you? They are happy that you trade in their systems and boost their economy.

There are no sanctions or embargos in place that forbid travelling or trading to the respective citizens.

Powerplay should be enough proof that our factions actually are enemys in an open semi war.

Of course the federation should ask you on your return why they have information that you sold exploration data to the empire and not to the federation. Obviously selling exploration data wouldn't have the same "rep value" like destroying ships, but depending on the number of systems and what the buyer can do with that information it should scale.
I agree that you should be able to have a good rep with different minor factions, even when they all belong to different major factions. But i stick to the idea that your major faction rep should change accordingly.

 

[CroBar]

1. Add more options for disabling ships and a reason to do so, like buffing hatch breakers. 2. Increase the bounty significantly for destroying a ship and add increasingly powerful cross-system Bounty Hunter NPCs that chase you with kill warrant scanners as well as providing players updates on your location through the bulletin board. Tie bounties to the Powerplay power on a regional basis to prevent the easy "jump one system away for profit" method, or bring back the Faction-wide bounty once you reach a threshold. 3. Increase piracy rewards while adding fine amounts to piracy missions for destroying rather than disabling targets.

I agree 100% with this. Great minds think alike, I just posted something very similar to this in a reddit thread as a response to someone wanting "Safe-Mode" in Open.

 

[kilvenny]

I believe this game would benefit from being able to attract more people to play in open, since this would encourage more player interaction and I don't just mean pvp.

What is the barrier?

Consider an extreme scenario of a lone player new to the game versus a player wing. There is a potential mismatch in number of players, skill level and ship load out giving an inevitable result. Whilst the engagement is PvP do we think its fun for both sides. The answer is clearly no.

However if the action took place in a combat zone or in an anarchy system I think most of us would agree that the lone player made a mistake and should not have been there.

Piracy is an accepted game play element, if the lone player had been a trader who had chosen to fly in a maxed for cargo loadout so was an easy target we would again consider that the trader had taken a risk which made them an easier target.

Killing a clean CMDR causes a player to become wanted and attract a bounty, but that punishment does not protect the slain commander, nor is it much of a punishment for CMDR's flying in Wings because they have adequate protection in numbers.

PvP is a fundamental element of gameplay in open, but the game does not provide

a) Enough mechanics for the lone player to be able to protect himself
b) A punishment system that impacts a player if they choose to murder multiple commanders outside combat zones and anarchy systems
c) Any protection for the slain commander

NPC wings would help, but for me the key element is to provide a punishment system that reflects on the severity of the crime (player numbers differential, commander ranking differential ,ship differential and location) and the frequency. I would also decay the negative reputation over time and also factor in doing missons to improve reputation eg killing players would bounty. The key element being that the punishment levels have a material impact on the player and are not wiped by death. eg Not being able to be part of a wing, Having to pay the dead commanders rebuy cost, unable to land on stations. Obviously in a 4 v 4 and it was deemed a fair fight, so the first death does not attract a punishment then it wouldn't for any other deaths. Obviously if the lone player is already wanted there is no punishment.

 

[bendover]

Is this Pve/Pvp thread number 3457,sorry must be on the wrong thread then,lets just say Flogg and Dead horse and leave it there

 

[dubsdj]

I always play in Open and often get destroyed by annoying human players who like to spoil others fun. Its the game though, you can't change that as this is real life, you get a village idiot wherever you go.. that's life.
the problem is that pvp is often unfair for many as I can imagine that most of the village idiots have the full setup, nice controls, thrust sticks, triple HDMI displays, you name it and they got it.. so you are screwed if you use a mouse and keyboard.. there is where the problem lies if you ask me. And that sums it up... there is nothing FD can do and TBH they should just leave it be... people change.. so there is hope out there.

Also I thought I would add this edit: When I was constantly asking for tyre tracks on planets and others said it might encourage someone to draw something rude on the planet surface.. so what? In real life (in the future) what would stop anybody spending hours of their time drawing something with their spaceship on a planet .. nothing .. that's just what people do to have fun and amusement. Anything is possible if this is supposed to represent a simulator of a lone person in space. FD I say let people be idiots if that's what makes them feel happy as that's just life.. the world is full of them. We could just name and shame them.. go draw something over their tyre tracks.

Perhaps you could have an extra option that allows you to appeal your insurance costs and explain what happened. FD could then decide your case and perhaps give you a discount. Personally I always make sure I can buy my ship back 3 times over before I leave any station.

 

[anikaiful]

Make PvP actually meaningful, outside PP it's nothing but pointless gankfest and epeen measure.

 

[Surly_Badger]

Make PvP actually meaningful, outside PP it's nothing but pointless gankfest and epeen measure.

^^^ This.

Edit: PVP would be interesting if there were some kind of battleground mechanism that made some of the engagements remotely close to fair fights (you know, like some of the battlegrounds in WoW, etc) As it is, there is one - CQC - which doesn't satisfy some of the PVP lovers because I guess fair fights aren't what they're looking for. I don't care about losing the occasional ship, what bugs me is that some bedwetting sociopath is chimping up and down about having successfully brought down another player with their 3 ship wing of A-rated whatever. I don't want to reward those guys by being a source of amusement to them.

 

[Julio Montega]

^^^ This.

Edit: PVP would be interesting if there were some kind of battleground mechanism that made some of the engagements remotely close to fair fights (you know, like some of the battlegrounds in WoW, etc) As it is, there is one - CQC - which doesn't satisfy some of the PVP lovers because I guess fair fights aren't what they're looking for. I don't care about losing the occasional ship, what bugs me is that some bedwetting sociopath is chimping up and down about having successfully brought down another player with their 3 ship wing of A-rated whatever. I don't want to reward those guys by being a source of amusement to them.

That still wouldn't make PvP meaningful, just more fair.
PvP has to take influence on the universe or the BGS to be an option,
currently it is burning ingame money for a short kick,
without any gain apart from repair cost.

I suggested in another thread to include faction affiliation,
so a player entering a system would be affiliated with the
faction he has the best rep with.
This should result in data for the servers, when a pilot is killed in PvP
and affect the BGS in the same way, the killing of faction NPCs does,
just with a higher effect (for sake of difficulty).

Another person then suggested to tie that boon to your ship/equip/ranking
so we have a means to meter the outcome of a PvP death for that system
and prevent the slaugher-o-rama on helpless sidewinders/inexperienced CMDRs
for a bigger gain.

Make PvP actually meaningful, outside PP it's nothing but pointless gankfest and epeen measure.

Does PvP even affect powerplay directly?
My latest info was, that you could only prevent players from cashing in merits and cargo by killing them,
and that would be a indirect byproduct.

 

[anikaiful]

Does PvP even affect powerplay directly?
My latest info was, that you could only prevent players from cashing in merits and cargo by killing them,
and that would be a indirect byproduct.

Directly, no, it doesn't. And that's the problem in general with PvP, aside for the pew-pew factor it's almost completely meaningless.

 

[Mercy Killing]

just go to solo. it won't stop.

But see.....that's the problem. People ARE going to solo, leaving open (and by default, people craving the PvP actions therein) sadly lacking.

What very few people seem to realize is this:


THIS "PROBLEM" IS NOT SOMETHING THAT FDEV CAN "FIX". THE SOLUTION LIES WITH THE PLAYERS.

Not to mention that very famous Hitchhiker's Guide quote about how big space actually is and the remote possibility of being picked up while suffocating by another ship.

Edit:

And this quote:

Population

None. Although you might see people from time to time, they are most likely products of your imagination. Simple mathematics tells us that the population of the Universe must be zero. Why? Well given that the volume of the universe is infinite there must be an infinite number of worlds. But not all of them are populated; therefore only a finite number are. Any finite number divided by infinity is as close to zero as makes no odds, therefore we can round the average population of the Universe to zero, and so the total population must be zero.