The Static Galaxy, the Background Sim, and the Economy: Why Player-Owned Stations is not the sole answer

[sam445]

I rarely agree with those kinds of discussions about the background simulation, but you OP offers real solutions and details them. Have some reputation.

 

[Gedemon]

Nice ideas OP, but I am affraid that it is simply IMPOSSIBLE from technical point of view.
We are using words like "Background simulation". But there is NO background simulation at all. There are no servers constantly chewing data and running economy/supply/demand calculations based on input from players. There are no background running processes for building something etc.

If you will examine the whole mechanism of the so-called BGS for some time, you will see how all thing works now. If absolutely no player is in the star system ExampleSystem, instance is deleted and does not exist at all. Maybe for hours, maybe for weeks real time, the whole ExampleSystem is not in memory of any computer on Earth.
As soon as first player log into (or fly into) star system, the instance is created and filled with objects (planets, stations etc.) from procedurally generated database. So called "Comodity market" in filled with default values of amounts, prices etc. NPC ships are generated in system. As long as you are the only player in this system, you cannot see any other player in Open. When you buy for example full T9 of some commodity, the amount available on market is substracted and cargo is added to your T9. If you left the system and fly to sell the cargo somewhere, the instance wait for timeout (I tried to measure it and it seems that it is something like 10 minutes) and if there is nobody in the system, the system is deleted and again non existent. If you or some other player come into the ExampleSystem before the timer run out, timer is resetted. If there is more CMDRs in the ExampleSystem instance, they can see each other in Open. If there is more than 32 CMDRs, a new instance is opened, filled with values COPIED from previous, already existing instance.
Of course, if you are in Solo/Group, you cannot see other players in the instance and in any mode you can see players from other instances. But you can see for example that some commodities has lower amount on market, maybe they vanish from market at all. Commodities are refilled either if some player bring cargo to sell or automatically in 10 minutes interval. I did not measured it, but I suppose that those automatic intervals are the same intervals when for example the Bulletin boars missions are refreshed.

But after all players from ExampleSystem will go to sleep and you as a last one switche the game off, the ExampleSystem instance is deleted when the timer expires and tomorrow, when you log in, the system will be fresh, resupplied etc.

Under those conditions of fundamental design (no simulation, but only underlying database) you cannot have dynamic systems, slowly building stations, dynamic trading prices, emigrations to neighbour systems etc. There are no mechanisms for such kind of interaction and system development. And I am almost sure that it is either impossible or too expensive develop some other mechanisms for sheer amout of systems which forms the ED galaxy. Dynamical system with real and continually running simulation is possible for couple hundreds of systems, maybe couple of thousands of systems. But not for tens of thousands or millions.

Instances in ED doesn't work exactly how you describe them.

Objects in the system (stellar object or station) are, as you write created from the PG. I don't know if population is a variable or part of the PG.
OTHO, state of each inhabited system is stored in a DB on a central server.

Price and number of available commodities are calculated from population and system state. They are also stored on the central server, they change based on the action from all players in all instances/all modes but you're right they do reset. Not when there are no instances left in the system, but way too fast to allow a feeling of persistence for the players.

If you were part of the alpha/beta, you must have seen the (big) differences on the markets between each patch or server update while FD was tweaking the BGS variables to their liking.

Now, I've not done commerce since a long time in game, and if your conclusions based on your current observations are true, then it means they completely removed the BGS, but there was one at some point, one that need to be (re)designed/(re)configured.

BTW, I bet a dime against bean that even the background database is not fully existing since the beginning. I am my whole life (50 y.o.) in IT bussiness of various kind and I am former programmer, so I have a bit of knowledge how things works.

I bet that for systems that are yet "Unexplored", there is nothing in database. As soon as the first explorer "come" to the new system, game ask the database and if answer is "Unexplored - nil", new random procedurally generated system is created locally in the machine of this explorer after he makes a scan. So far, so good.
When the explorer is selling data back home, only at this moment, there is database write and under the system name, there is added a record with something like K type star, six planets, two gas giants, two ice planets etc. Plus the name of the explorer. Nothing more, nothing less. The system is still non existent, until some another CMDR will enter it. When he will enter, the system is locally generated in his computer, using data from shared background database.

That's wrong, the only thing saved in the DB for empty systems is the commander who has discovered a specific stellar object, everything else (type of star, number of planets, their position, etc...) is from PG and will be generated the same way for everyone, independently of whoever discover it first, there is no randomness in the process.

 

[medwyn]

I think a real thargoid threat would be handy now.
I mean they come and destroy 99% of the inhabited human space (stations, outposts, etc.).
It's a believable story and would help a lot for FD to reconstuct the galaxy buy this time with smaller numbers and more details highlighting the BSG here - persistency.

In the remaining 200 systems we could have a supply chain based on the planet's details: miners could finally mine and it would matter for the industrial colonies, traders could bring food as a supply to these stations and shift other commodities around because it matters, missions could reflect the BSG-calculated supply and demand, etc.

I wish for a core in this galaxy which could function with this persistency and expand the model later on as we get the territory back from the insects.

 

[Soliluna]

Gave rep, excellent post, excellent ideas.

 

[Captain Torus]

Remember this is just a placeholder for the game that will someday be made... or not. Probably not, this is all there is and will be.

 

[LittleJP]

And it will remain so unless we, as a community push for this as something we want to see completed.