Simple, right?
1. It's barren. People come to this game from previous Elite titles, sure, but it's far from all of them. Most of the fanbase arent just Elite fans. They came from Wing Commander, the X series, Evochron Mercenary, or backed Star Citizen and wanted something to actually play until it came out. Some may have even came from titles like Star Conflict. These titles prominently featured/promised vast, but cluttered areas where the six degrees of movement could be put to full use for dodging and using cover in combat, all the way to providing interesting scenery and venues within the galaxy to essentially just oggle at. Elite Dangerous is very open, very dark, void-like space most of the time, and while it's not bad, exactly, it's also not enough to keep people interested.
2. It's quiet. There's no chatter. There's no actual dialog in the game at all except for your ship. Remember those other games I mentioned before? Uh huh. Same scenario. Most of them had a full range of voiced NPCs, or at least radio chatter, to keep things feeling lively. Since Elite Dangerous only featues a limited music pallet, and not many lines of actual dialog, it feels less like it's bustling in stations and more like it's just another part of deep space.
3. Pacing. The pacing for this game is very slow. Like, EVE Online mining slow. It doesn't appeal to new players looking to get off the ground. One of the biggest complaints I hear from new players is how it's too difficult to actually find combat to do early on. And players can't typically just rush into RES with a stock Sidewinder. They're looking for action, but because of Supercruise mechanics, as well as how breaking into a combat scenario operates, many players actually grow bored before being able to get into the title.
4. The learning curve is steep. Not EVE Online steep, but this is still something you hear. With tutorials that don't really teach you valuable gameplay elements, and only really cover basic flight and minor combat, it's difficult for players to adjust to the setting and environment for the game. A complaint I see often enough even has to do with station docking. Now, I personally think it's insane that people can't make it into the mailslot. Hell, I've boosted full speed through it multiple times in my career. Some of them with me crashing into the back wall. But some players honestly find the docking mechanics cumbersome and difficult.
5. The galaxy. Or specifically, the map itself. For players who haven't really seen how it works, It's an outrageous undertaking for them to learn. Even for advanced players it's still a hassle to use. Sure it looks cool, but cool looks and no functionality doesn't really cut it for a lot of people. Since many players have to regularly use the Galaxy Map, this turns into more of a chore than a fun mechanic.
Now, you may be wondering how the hell Horizons affects this. It's very simple:
A lot of these issues have been present from day 1. To be perfectly honest, these are all issues that can be fixed WITHOUT adding brand new mechanics, and instead just changing up a features here and there. Horizons is an unessesary addition at this point in development because ultimately, while it's adding something that could be very enjoyable to existing players, it's not very new player-friendly, and isn't really fixing some of the biggest complaints.
Space is still the barren, quiet place it has always been, and I can only imagine the surface of non-atmosphere-bearing planets will feel the same way. A sparse, desolate, boring environment.
I swear to Christ, if they screw up Europa...
I digress... Imagine how much better things could be right now if they spent the time, energy, and finances on putting in dedicated questlines with voice actors instead of planetary landing. I feel like that alone would give new players much much more to look forward to when coming here.
Edit:
I must say, this thread has really become quite the...
Dangerous Discussion.
A lot of people have been asking for facts, so here's the facts:
This is a speculative thread. I'm sure you're not all so foolish as to not know what that means? I've stated it again and again. The fact that this thread uses 'Guestimate' in the title should have been obvious. Everything I've stated thus far has been speculation based on observation and opinion garnered from multiple sources across the interwebz. The top 5 list I addressed are ways FD could potentially make this game more appealing to a more mainstream audience without ruining the game for other people who enjoy the current system.
Most common (In that everyone has been spouting literally the same thing for each) defenses against what I said are:
1. Space is supposed to be barren.
Of course it is. It's space. Space is supposed to be a barren, dark place. It's one of the reasons I didn't really like EVE, and a gripe I have against Infinity: Battlescape right now is that it's too bright. However, clutter is not, by any means, a bad addition. It's all a matter of how additional clutter is used. For example, some variety to RES by adding derelict stations or outposts, pirate-run facilities, etc, could change things up in a way that adds different terrain types, but doesn't hinder the barrenness of ED. This could also be a cool new way to incorporate pirate lords, by providing them with an actual home base instead of just finding them in open space.
2. Haven't really seen a major disagreement or defense against this, other than the no-brainer that space is supposed to be quiet. However, having some basic comms chatter, or voicing the NPC pirates, traders, etc. would be a nice touch.
3. The biggest defense here is "I'm happy with the pace", which, in my mind, finishes with a "and so should everyone else".
Let's not try to force things down everyone's throat
Having different branching paths for different paces would be pretty interesting. For example, in the persistent universe being able to join the Federal Navy, Allied police force, etc as a way to get a more 'fast-paced' mission-run experience would be a nice touch. Especially when added with my original argument with point 1: adding questing or something to make things a little more interesting.
And yes yes, I know there's CQC. Jesus. I've heard that enough, and CQC is nice, but doesn't really offer much for the persistent universe experience, which is what I am EXCLUSIVELY talking about here. CQC isn't even an extension of the persistent universe. It's just kind of... there. Like another tutorial mission that doesn't really teach you anything.
Speaking of...
4. The game is easy, so your complaint is invalid.
The game is easy for anyone, including myself, who played countless other space sims before jumping on board the Elite Dangerous bandwagon. But we often forget... Most other space sims are old... Like, over 10 years old at this point. Not many people actively played space sims before ED dropped. It was a pretty niche community. Still is a little bit, even with titles like Star Citizen hyping everyone up for the genre.
My point is, we have a lot of people coming to this that haven't played a space sim a day in their life. Hell, they may not have ever played a FLIGHT sim a day in their life. Wouldn't at the very least making more in-depth tutorials be a good step forward? Wouldn't having a voiced interactive SKIPPABLE tutorial when you first load into persistent be a very nice touch? I'm not complaining so much as acknowledging things aren't perfect and addressing how to improve on them.
5. The galaxy map is easy for everyone.
I tend to disagree. Even I sometimes get frustrated with it, when I'm trying to pick out one system of 100 billion and don't even know if I'm spelling it right. And don't even get me started on Wolf, Core Sys, etc. systems. Bear in mind, a lot, and I mean A LOT of players aren't going to bother looking up system names like you or I beforehand, or during their trip. They want that info directly in-game. This goes back to another post I made in a completely different thread. A simple, but amazing addition that could be made is a drop-down list of systems when you start typing in the navigation box. The more characters you enter, the more it narrows down what systems show up. Add to that if the system included a LY distance with it before even clicking from the list, I think this alone would make everyone who even has marginal gripes about the Galaxy Map SIGNIFICANTLY happier.
It's not about being right. It's about being objective and thinking about how we can make this experience even better and reach out to a much larger demographic of players. That's what I'm trying to do here. I understand opinions others have, and even if I don't inherently agree with them can at least accept that they are legitimate gripes from the fanbase. I can see both sides of the argument here, and my main question for those 'Purists' who believe the experience as it is is perfect is... "What's the harm in making this more accessible?"
Obviously, I don't define what is or is not better. I just listen to what is mentioned to me. That's why I made this top 5 list. To address some of the bigger, more common complaints I hear. I'm just adding my two cents on how to deal with it all.
What are you doing?
1. It's barren. People come to this game from previous Elite titles, sure, but it's far from all of them. Most of the fanbase arent just Elite fans. They came from Wing Commander, the X series, Evochron Mercenary, or backed Star Citizen and wanted something to actually play until it came out. Some may have even came from titles like Star Conflict. These titles prominently featured/promised vast, but cluttered areas where the six degrees of movement could be put to full use for dodging and using cover in combat, all the way to providing interesting scenery and venues within the galaxy to essentially just oggle at. Elite Dangerous is very open, very dark, void-like space most of the time, and while it's not bad, exactly, it's also not enough to keep people interested.
2. It's quiet. There's no chatter. There's no actual dialog in the game at all except for your ship. Remember those other games I mentioned before? Uh huh. Same scenario. Most of them had a full range of voiced NPCs, or at least radio chatter, to keep things feeling lively. Since Elite Dangerous only featues a limited music pallet, and not many lines of actual dialog, it feels less like it's bustling in stations and more like it's just another part of deep space.
3. Pacing. The pacing for this game is very slow. Like, EVE Online mining slow. It doesn't appeal to new players looking to get off the ground. One of the biggest complaints I hear from new players is how it's too difficult to actually find combat to do early on. And players can't typically just rush into RES with a stock Sidewinder. They're looking for action, but because of Supercruise mechanics, as well as how breaking into a combat scenario operates, many players actually grow bored before being able to get into the title.
4. The learning curve is steep. Not EVE Online steep, but this is still something you hear. With tutorials that don't really teach you valuable gameplay elements, and only really cover basic flight and minor combat, it's difficult for players to adjust to the setting and environment for the game. A complaint I see often enough even has to do with station docking. Now, I personally think it's insane that people can't make it into the mailslot. Hell, I've boosted full speed through it multiple times in my career. Some of them with me crashing into the back wall. But some players honestly find the docking mechanics cumbersome and difficult.
5. The galaxy. Or specifically, the map itself. For players who haven't really seen how it works, It's an outrageous undertaking for them to learn. Even for advanced players it's still a hassle to use. Sure it looks cool, but cool looks and no functionality doesn't really cut it for a lot of people. Since many players have to regularly use the Galaxy Map, this turns into more of a chore than a fun mechanic.
Now, you may be wondering how the hell Horizons affects this. It's very simple:
A lot of these issues have been present from day 1. To be perfectly honest, these are all issues that can be fixed WITHOUT adding brand new mechanics, and instead just changing up a features here and there. Horizons is an unessesary addition at this point in development because ultimately, while it's adding something that could be very enjoyable to existing players, it's not very new player-friendly, and isn't really fixing some of the biggest complaints.
Space is still the barren, quiet place it has always been, and I can only imagine the surface of non-atmosphere-bearing planets will feel the same way. A sparse, desolate, boring environment.
I swear to Christ, if they screw up Europa...
I digress... Imagine how much better things could be right now if they spent the time, energy, and finances on putting in dedicated questlines with voice actors instead of planetary landing. I feel like that alone would give new players much much more to look forward to when coming here.
Edit:
I must say, this thread has really become quite the...
Dangerous Discussion.
A lot of people have been asking for facts, so here's the facts:
This is a speculative thread. I'm sure you're not all so foolish as to not know what that means? I've stated it again and again. The fact that this thread uses 'Guestimate' in the title should have been obvious. Everything I've stated thus far has been speculation based on observation and opinion garnered from multiple sources across the interwebz. The top 5 list I addressed are ways FD could potentially make this game more appealing to a more mainstream audience without ruining the game for other people who enjoy the current system.
Most common (In that everyone has been spouting literally the same thing for each) defenses against what I said are:
1. Space is supposed to be barren.
Of course it is. It's space. Space is supposed to be a barren, dark place. It's one of the reasons I didn't really like EVE, and a gripe I have against Infinity: Battlescape right now is that it's too bright. However, clutter is not, by any means, a bad addition. It's all a matter of how additional clutter is used. For example, some variety to RES by adding derelict stations or outposts, pirate-run facilities, etc, could change things up in a way that adds different terrain types, but doesn't hinder the barrenness of ED. This could also be a cool new way to incorporate pirate lords, by providing them with an actual home base instead of just finding them in open space.
2. Haven't really seen a major disagreement or defense against this, other than the no-brainer that space is supposed to be quiet. However, having some basic comms chatter, or voicing the NPC pirates, traders, etc. would be a nice touch.
3. The biggest defense here is "I'm happy with the pace", which, in my mind, finishes with a "and so should everyone else".
Let's not try to force things down everyone's throat
Having different branching paths for different paces would be pretty interesting. For example, in the persistent universe being able to join the Federal Navy, Allied police force, etc as a way to get a more 'fast-paced' mission-run experience would be a nice touch. Especially when added with my original argument with point 1: adding questing or something to make things a little more interesting.And yes yes, I know there's CQC. Jesus. I've heard that enough, and CQC is nice, but doesn't really offer much for the persistent universe experience, which is what I am EXCLUSIVELY talking about here. CQC isn't even an extension of the persistent universe. It's just kind of... there. Like another tutorial mission that doesn't really teach you anything.
Speaking of...
4. The game is easy, so your complaint is invalid.
The game is easy for anyone, including myself, who played countless other space sims before jumping on board the Elite Dangerous bandwagon. But we often forget... Most other space sims are old... Like, over 10 years old at this point. Not many people actively played space sims before ED dropped. It was a pretty niche community. Still is a little bit, even with titles like Star Citizen hyping everyone up for the genre.
My point is, we have a lot of people coming to this that haven't played a space sim a day in their life. Hell, they may not have ever played a FLIGHT sim a day in their life. Wouldn't at the very least making more in-depth tutorials be a good step forward? Wouldn't having a voiced interactive SKIPPABLE tutorial when you first load into persistent be a very nice touch? I'm not complaining so much as acknowledging things aren't perfect and addressing how to improve on them.
5. The galaxy map is easy for everyone.
I tend to disagree. Even I sometimes get frustrated with it, when I'm trying to pick out one system of 100 billion and don't even know if I'm spelling it right. And don't even get me started on Wolf, Core Sys, etc. systems. Bear in mind, a lot, and I mean A LOT of players aren't going to bother looking up system names like you or I beforehand, or during their trip. They want that info directly in-game. This goes back to another post I made in a completely different thread. A simple, but amazing addition that could be made is a drop-down list of systems when you start typing in the navigation box. The more characters you enter, the more it narrows down what systems show up. Add to that if the system included a LY distance with it before even clicking from the list, I think this alone would make everyone who even has marginal gripes about the Galaxy Map SIGNIFICANTLY happier.
It's not about being right. It's about being objective and thinking about how we can make this experience even better and reach out to a much larger demographic of players. That's what I'm trying to do here. I understand opinions others have, and even if I don't inherently agree with them can at least accept that they are legitimate gripes from the fanbase. I can see both sides of the argument here, and my main question for those 'Purists' who believe the experience as it is is perfect is... "What's the harm in making this more accessible?"
Obviously, I don't define what is or is not better. I just listen to what is mentioned to me. That's why I made this top 5 list. To address some of the bigger, more common complaints I hear. I'm just adding my two cents on how to deal with it all.
What are you doing?
Last edited:
