RCT 3 PC The trouble with the community is...

People don't often listen. Now it isn't a great many that don't, but rather a greater few. For instance lets take RCT3. I was there at the very start, in fact well before it ;) in the good ol' CS days (Chris Sawyer) and I can tell you all, that both Atari and Frontier said you can make mid sized parks with most machines of the 2004 standard and that the parks would for the most part work fine. There were some bugs, but Frontier did a bang-up job repairing and squashing many early bugs. For the most part, if you used Frontier's scenery and rides it did what it was expected to. Even with the expansion packs. So the lag issues which include Custom Scenery and mega parks are just that. They went beyond what we were all assured would work normally. In a sense, it is a shame though, because the foresight and technology hardware weren't completely there to meet the demands of thousands of pieces of custom scenery and mega parks. The RCT3 community didn't want small parks. They instead wanted Disneyland at the very least and Disneyworld as an ultimate goal. RCT3 was never designed to meet this goal, and so lag issues came about. So in essence, the product wasn't enough to curb the voracious appetite to build, build and more build, as the RCT3 community demands required.

But also I can to some degree point the lag issues at the cd copy protection too. I have always said that it isn't worth adding expensive copy protection to software that is probably already broken before the initial product is released (educated guess of course). Because it only punishes the majority of those legitimate customers who paid for and supported the original product, and for the few weeks of profits it buys the Publisher/Developer, the support issues are eaten up rapidly, perhaps causing more of a financial loss than it was worth. In other words, everybody loses, except the copy protection companies who win.

Now we get ThrillVille for the console and maybe just that :confused:... Frontier has said TV is not RCT3, can't even import anything RCT3 and is a totally different product. Now if you ask me if I agree with this strategy, of course I do not. But it's their game and their plans and you have to respect that. Will TV ever achieve what RCT3 did? Probably not, at least not anytime soon from what I see. Will RCT3 be back? Probably not anytime soon from what I can see.

Yes it is painful having a dying product that just two years ago was product of the year in the gaming industry. Doesn't make good business sense to stiff a loyal, world wide community, but than again stranger things have happened in the world. But what people must stop doing is trying to substitute fanticized dreams with reality. ThrillVille is a different and unique product than RCT3 and will most likely remain so. It is as different as NoLimits, Virtual Rides or Coaster Madness might have been.

If you want to build large parks in RCT3 and use custom scenery by a very fiercely devoted community, desperately hanging on to the vestiges of a slowly dying, and corporate ignored product; than continue on. As new hardware emerges, it may yet perhaps allow those mega parks. Only time will tell whether it is a lag issue, that super fast hardware will be able to substitute for. But until than...
 
Dont think that i am harsh or anything..

but i didnt see a point beign made in that post :S

This isn't aimed at anyone particular, just at the general consensus. The reality is that the community was abandoned. What the community should have had were many fixes and enhancements and they didn't get that. Than TV was announced and many thought this was a substitute for RCT3. Michael has stated it is very different, and so this post points that out.

Yes bctrainers this is a general statement post, not anything else than that!
 
Heh - It's nice to see you guys still hanging around pontificating like normal. Even if the frequency of the ramblings has reduced somewhat.

For all its faults RCT3 still manages to stay on my hard disk, and I still pick it up and play it occasionally. Heck, I even created a scenario to play through a week or two ago.

But I digress...

The thing about computer games is that they are inherently transient. Games take years to write, they get marketed for a couple of months, and then hopefully played for longer. If it's a decent enough game then a community of fans will coalesce around it. The developers however have to move on to the next game.

As much as the development team (or publisher) may or may not attempt to influence the creation of such a community, ultimately the success of the community falls to the people of which it is composed.

Which actually is a problem.

Apart from the flame-bait, trolling, and the fact that people seem to lose most of their common sense when posting on forums, I woud suggest that an on-line community will only work when the people within that community can "connect" in some form of meaningful and positive way.

People don't connect when all they read are complaints and criticisms. People don't connect when a community gets very large. People don't connect because they know they will most likely be visiting for a short period of time; just until the next game comes out.

In my experience communities form because a few people get together and focus on the good stuff, because it interests them and they find it fun. Those few people are unusual in that they are prepared to put in the time and effort to keep posting, visiting, commenting, and being positive.

I'm not saying that they simply brush all the "dirt" under the carpet and never speak of it, but I do believe that the communities that work emphasise what is good over and above what is bad. Even when they spend time working out work-arounds for problems and making those available, they are still focusing on the positive.

I think, what I'm trying to say in a particularly verbose and rambling manner, is that it is not the developers responsibility to create a community. Yes they can do things to make communities easier to form (mod support is a classic example - but even then it's not a given); but ultimately it is not their responsibility.

The community has to arise from those that play the game.

If the people that play the game can't make it work, then there's nothing the developers can do about it.
 
So let me try to understand this fully. Perhaps a community can do better than a commercial interest?

I mean, perhaps more features, and an infinite future of expansions? Of course I would never be so adventurous to assume such a thing could be made by a disorganized community, or could it? I mean, do you really think there are people out there that might make such a thing, without lag, and a ride construction set, perhaps a Building Generator or other features the community has asked for forever.

I mean :rolleyes: wouldn't that just be a dream? After all a commercial interest would be the only ones to be able to program such an animal? Not a disorganized hodge podge of wannabe people who are having a tough time keeping their PC's running.

Now its not to say people on the net can't do things for themselves, but I mean, really, a game that goes way beyond any commercial interest. Impossible I say. Maybe a small program here and there and a starving programmer at that, but nada, ain't gonna happen, or could it be coming?

Wow how I love the future, like Yoda said always unpredictable or something like that, the future is. Well, I'll just sit back, stare at RCT3 which I deinstalled, grin and than live life knowing that the future is mine to live, and all of yours as well...cause nobody knows for certain what is coming down the pipeline, but in this case it eventually might be a major flood :D and that is absolutely fine with me, cause I have my boat ready for smooth sailing like the skipper!
 
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game creation tools

I was just wondering what 3d tools the developers used in the creation of RCT 3? Anybody got a guess? I would say probably 3dsMax or Maya or both. Then again, I could be wrong. And I probably am. Those two programs are extremely powerful 3d creation tools. I'm pretty sure that someone could use 3dsMax to create a new ride and animate it using Maya or another program.

As far as RCT 3 being dead, that's just simply not true. I play the game at least 3 or 4 times per week on a regular basis. I'm always creating new coasters and uploading them to my RCT 3 website for others to enjoy.

Also, in order to run a maga park at ultra-high resolution with all the settings maxxed out, you must have an extremely fast computer system. Quad-SLI is definitely the way to go. Having a dual-core or better yet, a quad-core processor is a must. I have found out that RCT 3 is a memory hog. The more memory you have in your system the better off you are. So far, the technology is catching up at a reasonable pace, which is helping out a great bit.

It would be interesting to see an RCT 4 or better yet, a completely bug-free RCT 3. Only time will tell I guess...
 
RCT3 is pretty well bug free as far as bugs go. It does still have some bug type issues, but necessarily true bugs anymore. That said, I have an entire list that would make Braben turn white (erhmmm, he already is) okay I meant pink (that could be sunburned) okay I meant turn green if he were to ever read that list of issues, and there are a great many, but I won't go into those cause I don't want poor David to become a box of crayons you know.

RCThardcore, you are actually part of a culture that is slowly disintegrating. It may not seem like this from your perspective, but overall while new people are coming in, the RCT3 culture as a whole is a dying culture over the long term unless new expansions come, which I doubt at this point will be happening soon.

Chris Sawyer is suing Atari, Frontier is busy with ThrillVille, and the only ones that are really keeping this ongoing are the very people that were quite shunned at the start and that is the great Scenerymakers, thanks to a certain Programmer who had the guts and talents to make it happened otherwise RCT3 would have gone by by a long time ago.

When you consider everything, I greatl love this community, but I loath the Publisher for having failed all of my friends in the community. They had the 2005 Game of the Year and two years later they have very little but a free ride on the "Legal-Go-Round"
 
...RCThardcore, you are actually part of a culture that is slowly disintegrating....
Or perhaps, because there is no news of any patches/expansions etc, people have no reason to actually check on-line. Sure, you can download some decent rides, parks, and scenarios, but really, RCT is a single player game.

I would suggest that by its nature people will pick it up, play it for a while, and then put it down again when something else crops up. The RCT games have always been great to play that way.

If you don't get into using custom scenery then there really is no reason to stop by any of the fan sites or internet forums (except perhaps to read Sebar's latest musings ;) ).

But hey, I still stop by for no reason at all from time to time. I suspect the RCT community (such is it is) is actually a community of lurkers rather than posters. Which is probably why it came across as quite friendly.
 
Actually a culture my dear chap!

Honestly its a culture that has grown up around RCT as a product. A culture goes beyond borders and genre, but also spans time as well. The problem here is this. Frontier the developer instead of doing Thrillville and reinventing rct3 into something else, should have just mustered the bucks and purchased RCT, or cut a deal with atari and Sawyer and did the smart thing. Listen to a forum topic of cultural ideas to improve rct3 and than implemented all of this for profit and built on what was there.

Frontier's problems from my perspective is that they thought as a developer only. The potential to negotiate and go beyond that point would have proven a win-win situation for everybody. Unfortunately this has not been the case

As far as Chris Sawyer goes, Chris should consider himself lucky to have an RCT culture and rather than kill the rct brand as has been the rumor these days if it stands true, he should embrace it and build it far beyond where it is. Remember Chris Sawyer, "A winner never quits, and a quitter never wins!" Perhaps ol David Braben your buddy could take a que from this and drum that sensible thought into your brilliant programmer's mind.

For Atari, my questions are why and how?

Why stiff the original Developer of millions when you have the 2005 game of the year and the 2006 expansions of the year? I mean was money, and corporate greed really worth shooting the golden coaster down the ground hole and stiffing everyone especially yourselves. if the suit proves to be true? And while I am at it, how could you lose the 2005 game of the year to nothing but a free ride on the "Legal-Go-Round"? I mean you guys had this all going. Why so many other games? Why not build upon what works and make it even better for the culture?

So many questions, so few answers, so much sadness, from a platform that was supposed to bring so much happiness. The rct culture shall never know!
 
Quoted by rcthardcore: I was just wondering what 3d tools the developers used in the creation of RCT 3? Anybody got a guess? I would say probably 3dsMax or Maya or both. Then again, I could be wrong. And I probably am. Those two programs are extremely powerful 3d creation tools. I'm pretty sure that someone could use 3dsMax to create a new ride and animate it using Maya or another program.

Wow, I have 3D Studio Max. The problem is I just don't know how to use it. :eek:

I hate to ask, but could someone please please please help me? :( Please post in my thread. Thank you. :( Sorry; this has nothing to do with the community. And I agree; people don't listen at all. I may be new to this, but please; be nice and say welcome or something.

<Posts merged, p[lease do not double post, or attempt to hijack threads. - Michael>
 
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