The viper is horrendous

[rupok]

It is horrible imho.
- When you outfit with decent weapons and other tools the jump range becomes abysmal.
- I am getting outmanuevered by eagles and even sidewinders
- shields suck compared to cobra
- I rammed a sidewinder, i took 60% damage while they took 30%, wth.


Maybe its just me but I wasted money on this ship thinking it was basically a cobra but better at dogfights.

 

[Unfluffydave]

It is horrible imho.
- When you outfit with decent weapons and other tools the jump range becomes abysmal.
- I am getting outmanuevered by eagles and even sidewinders
- shields suck compared to cobra
- I rammed a sidewinder, i took 60% damage while they took 30%, wth.


Maybe its just me but I wasted money on this ship thinking it was basically a cobra but better at dogfights.

You can't just load a ship up with heavy (weight wise) guns without upgrading the FSD and expect it to jump the same.

An Eagle is 50 Tonnes, a sidewinder 25 Tonnes and a viper 60 Tonnes according to http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Ships. Given the same quality of equipment I would expect the Eagle and Sidewinder to be able to out manoeuvre a viper.

I don't know if it helps but to me it looks like how many pips you have in engines also affects your manoeuvering thrusters as well as your speed. I may be wrong and it is just an illusion though.

 

[AndersonDG]

It is horrible imho.
- When you outfit with decent weapons and other tools the jump range becomes abysmal.
- I am getting outmanuevered by eagles and even sidewinders
- shields suck compared to cobra
- I rammed a sidewinder, i took 60% damage while they took 30%, wth.


Maybe its just me but I wasted money on this ship thinking it was basically a cobra but better at dogfights.

Most of your problems with it are just features of the ship that need to be worked around through upgrades or piloting skill. The Eagle on its own is a far more maneuverable ship than the Viper so it's to be expected that you were outmaneuvered by one. The Cobra also is overall a tougher ship than the Viper in terms of default shield and hull strength.

The Viper is also traditionally a short range fighter, it isn't meant to be able to jump far on its stock FSD and adding more weight on top of it with larger weapons will decrease that even more.

 

[M4rt1n]

Viper is my favourite ship in the game. Of course, it has a special role. It is a short/middle range attack ship. Not trader, not multirole, not whatever, it is an attack ship. It got nerfed. Bit overnerfed, some might say. But I really like it the way it is, and really hope the devs will not change from it's current form. Because now, the Vipers superior capatibilities are subtle, hidden.
Yes, other ships can outturn it (pitch advantage). But it has the BEST acceleration. And acceleration counts if you master the use of the lateral/vertical thrusters. Not easy to fly it, but once you get competent with it, it is very rewarding.
Or you can buy a Cobra, gimballed weapons and stuck on that level when combat means you try to outturn everything with speed in the blue zone, gimbals doing the aiming for you

 

[davelister]

Yo need to put in a lot of Money then the Viper kills a Sidwinder in 10 sek for that yo need a better Powerplant (i Bootis) better Shilds and Armor (Aulin) and good guns then its Fun to Fly to Freeport and go Hunting

 

[BBcokeley]

I spent an aweful lot of creds (aroung 1.8mil) kitting up my viper, it became a beast, but alas I got fed up of the interior.......
.
Different interior skins/colours on the market place?
.
please

 

[Wolfox]

It is horrible imho.
- When you outfit with decent weapons and other tools the jump range becomes abysmal.
- I am getting outmanuevered by eagles and even sidewinders
- shields suck compared to cobra
- I rammed a sidewinder, i took 60% damage while they took 30%, wth.


Maybe its just me but I wasted money on this ship thinking it was basically a cobra but better at dogfights.

I had the same surprise, plus I mounted weapons under in the Medium slots. You can't imagine how angry I was when a NOVICE was happily shooting at me but my guns, locked on him, they were not shooting. It's a long story but from now on only FIXED weapons!! no Ghimblereds or how you called them (Auto lock)

 

[HeavyGroovez]

The Viper requires a different combat strategy to be effective.
.
You have to boom and zoom with it, furballing is not its speciality.
.
Personally i much prefer the Eagle because its so much more fun to fly and if I want big gun superiority I get the ASP out.

 

[CapnSnuggie]

All ships are undergoing 'Tweaks' in gameplay, and from Beta 2 to 3, the maneuverability to mass ratio has definitely changed.

In Beta 2, the Viper with max gear had an /INSANE/ jump range, and outturned everything but the Eagle.

In Beta 3, the Viper with max gear feels like a flying (but shiny) brick.

The funny thing was, it felt better before i upgraded it in Beta 3.

The weight of your upgrade choices really play a part in handling now. Couple that with some slight 'tweaking' that's going on, it is impossible to say what has changed exactly.

The good news is that the changes are in scale with the other ships, so it's not an unfair nerf.

Recommendations:
- check the mass per quality of your components. I think it was 'C' Rated was the lightest, 'A' was the heaviest.
- More thrusters seem to offset the weight, but the thrusters add massive amounts of weight too.
- Learn to use FA Off and Boost to maximize your turning characteristics.
- Learn the turn characteristics of other craft, in regards to you own.

You will find you have to 'plan' now, and having 'Class X A Rated' equipment doesn't equal 'I win'.

You may find the Viper doesn't move the way you like, where a Cobra or even an Asp (which you would think moves like a Mac Truck) may run circles around your opponent.

The truth is, you need to find how you want to maneuver, then find a ship that will get you there, with just the right amount of upgrading.

My findings in Beta 3:
- Eagle will out maneuver anything, but won't out run.
- Viper will boost outrun, but doesn't turn on a dime.
- Cobra will non boost out run, but in maneuver rang, turns tighter than you expect.
- Sidewinder (which i *HATE*) actually comes in 2nd on *EVERYTHING* maneuvering wise.
- Asp, Imperial Cutter both maneuver and have speed much more than you would think.

(I should be using 'MASS' instead of 'WEIGHT', but you get the idea)

Oddly enough, you may find that a lightly touched Sidewinder can out maneuver anything. The trick is, to find a craft you like, get to know it so well, that with the right upgrades, you and your craft will know how to maneuver better than anything.

No ship is going to be the best in all categories, but by taking careful time and purchases, you can be the best in that ship.

Enjoy, and i hope this helps!

Snuggs...

 

[HeavyGroovez]

All ships are undergoing 'Tweaks' in gameplay, and from Beta 2 to 3, the maneuverability to mass ratio has definitely changed.

In Beta 2, the Viper with max gear had an /INSANE/ jump range, and outturned everything but the Eagle.

In Beta 3, the Viper with max gear feels like a flying (but shiny) brick.

The funny thing was, it felt better before i upgraded it in Beta 3.

The weight of your upgrade choices really play a part in handling now. Couple that with some slight 'tweaking' that's going on, it is impossible to say what has changed exactly.

The good news is that the changes are in scale with the other ships, so it's not an unfair nerf.

Recommendations:
- check the mass per quality of your components. I think it was 'C' Rated was the lightest, 'A' was the heaviest.
- More thrusters seem to offset the weight, but the thrusters add massive amounts of weight too.
- Learn to use FA Off and Boost to maximize your turning characteristics.
- Learn the turn characteristics of other craft, in regards to you own.

You will find you have to 'plan' now, and having 'Class X A Rated' equipment doesn't equal 'I win'.

You may find the Viper doesn't move the way you like, where a Cobra or even an Asp (which you would think moves like a Mac Truck) may run circles around your opponent.

The truth is, you need to find how you want to maneuver, then find a ship that will get you there, with just the right amount of upgrading.

My findings in Beta 3:
- Eagle will out maneuver anything, but won't out run.
- Viper will boost outrun, but doesn't turn on a dime.
- Cobra will non boost out run, but in maneuver rang, turns tighter than you expect.
- Sidewinder (which i *HATE*) actually comes in 2nd on *EVERYTHING* maneuvering wise.
- Asp, Imperial Cutter both maneuver and have speed much more than you would think.

(I should be using 'MASS' instead of 'WEIGHT', but you get the idea)

Oddly enough, you may find that a lightly touched Sidewinder can out maneuver anything. The trick is, to find a craft you like, get to know it so well, that with the right upgrades, you and your craft will know how to maneuver better than anything.

No ship is going to be the best in all categories, but by taking careful time and purchases, you can be the best in that ship.

Enjoy, and i hope this helps!

Snuggs...

Excellent post. Repped.

EDIT : You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CapnSnuggie again.

Meh..

 

[Morbad]

Viper is far and away my favorite ship, even in Beta 3.

You need to recognize it's strengths and weaknesses, utilizing the former, and minimizing the latter.

If you aren't very comfortable with using lateral/vertical thrust, the Viper is not going to feel right for you, and you will not be able to put the ship to best use. The ship is comparatively light, and you need to use the acceleration this gives it, in combination with it's superior peak vertical/lateral speed, to make up for it's poor pitch speed and take advantage of it's relatively small profile.

- check the mass per quality of your components. I think it was 'C' Rated was the lightest, 'A' was the heaviest.

B is generally heavier than A for the critical components.

For sensors and life support, D is usually the optimal choice as they are lightest and draw lower power than higher rated components.

- Viper will boost outrun
- Cobra will non boost out run

This is backwards.

A fully equipped Viper is some 20 m/s faster than a Cobra without boost, but the Cobra can boost about 40 m/s higher than the Viper can.

 

[CapnSnuggie]

This is backwards.

A fully equipped Viper is some 20 m/s faster than a Cobra without boost, but the Cobra can boost about 40 m/s higher than the Viper can.

Crap... My bad. Thanks for the non-flammatory polite correction!

P.S. I really really liked the Beta 2 Viper... But as a scout ship. Insanely long range, loaded up with discovery scanners, annd quad-overcharged-gimbaled multi cannons in case anything looked at you funny.

It was a great way to get across the (then tiny) universe and back.

Sigh... Now i have an Asp for that.

 

[Wolfox]

I don't do much money, but a EAGLE for fun is worth spending some money.
Leave it in a system with good engineering and upgrade time by time.

 

[hobblygobbly]

Not every ship is supposed to be the same, they have strengths and weaknesses.

The Viper is ideal for bounty hunters/pirates or people that want to engage on their own terms, and disengage when they want. They are great for getting into trouble quickly as well as getting out, you can easily dictate range.

Not every ship can have the same weight, shields, agility, hull armor, jump range, hardpoint layout, etc, it'll all be too "samey". Ships are built to satisfy certain areas differently, it makes them more useful and given a purpose.

My outfit right now is x2 Multicannon Gimballed, x1 Burst Laser Fixed, x1 Pulse Laser Fixed|Gimballed (been experimenting), and I take on everything. You have to be careful sometimes with your turning/agility, getting caught the wrong way pitted against something like a Cobra can end you very quickly, but I also have the advantage of getting out of a hairy situation the best. You have to know the ship you're flying and fly it differently, can't fly every ship the same.

 

[davelister]

Till Gamma you find me around Freeport the to extradition Sites and Prospect five come and proof the Viper is so Bad
If you Know Sea Quest you know when you find me

 

[brumster]

The Viper in standard guise is horrible - you HAVE to upgrade it. The key upgrades for me are the power plant and thrusters; in that order. C3's at least (~56k each). Then work on reducing the weight by upgrading the other bits as you can find them. Fuel scoop is beneficial!

 

[davelister]

I am still searching a better Powerplant than the c from iBootis do you know were?

 

[Shoklar]

It is horrible imho.
- When you outfit with decent weapons and other tools the jump range becomes abysmal.
- I am getting outmanuevered by eagles and even sidewinders
- shields suck compared to cobra
- I rammed a sidewinder, i took 60% damage while they took 30%, wth.


Maybe its just me but I wasted money on this ship thinking it was basically a cobra but better at dogfights.

Clearly, you never outfitted it right. I had mine around 13.00ly and a very tough combat ship. Keep trying, you'll get it right.

Shok.

 

[Jorlin]

If one third of the people tell you the ship "is overpowered", one third that "it's ok" and the others "it's barely useable at all"... then the balance is nearly perfect

 

[Pheyes]

Jorlin the viper is totally crap I loved it and even bought a skin for it, but it has been nerfed so much that it is clearly the worst ship and I wouldn't waste my time with it ever again, your better off buying a cobra as it out turns out fights and out trades the viper in every way.