The VR / PC Upgrade Reality Check

I'm seeing a lot of posts from people who are looking to upgrade their PC's for VR and that's great. However, a lot of folks just don't get that all PC components need to be of decent quality to run VR efficiently. A recent report states only 9% of existing PC's are VR capable today. So there is a lot of groundwork that needs to be done by the majority to get up to speed.

CPU, GPU, RAM, Motherboard and hard drive performance all contribute to the end result. Getting a whiz bang GPU running on a five year old mobo with mismatched clock speed RAM sticks is like dropping the engine from a Ferrari into a tractor. It might work, but not well.

The heart and soul of the system is the CPU / GPU, but they talk to each other (and RAM) through the motherboard. The mobo does this using the PCIe interface for the most part. For best VR performance your mobo should support V3.0 of this standard, minimum. The various versions have significantly different data transfer rates.

Summary of PCI Express Interface Parameters:


Base Clock Speed: PCIe 3.0 = 8.0GHz, PCIe 2.0 = 5.0GHz, PCIe 1.1 = 2.5GHz
Data Rate: PCIe 3.0 = 1000MB/s, PCIe 2.0 = 500MB/s, PCIe 1.1 = 250MB/s
Total Bandwidth: (x16 link): PCIe 3.0 = 32GB/s, PCIe 2.0 = 16GB/s, PCIe 1.1 = 8GB/s
Data Transfer Rate: PCIe 3.0 = 8.0GT/s, PCIe 2.0= 5.0GT/s, PCIe 1.1 = 2.5GT/s

Source

V1.1 of the PCIe standard is 31% throughput compared to V3.0. That's a huge impact on your data flow if you are running an older mobo.

RAM has a lesser impact, but is still important. Lots of RAM allows you to preload large graphics files (planets, moons, stations, etc.) that can be transferred to the GPU quickly. RAM operates on nanosecond (billionth of a second) time scales where a hard drive runs in milliseconds (thousandth of a second). Loading files from RAM is significantly faster (by several factors) then waiting for a hard drive. If you have RAM sticks of different speeds installed, the RAM will work at the slowest speed. So if you have more than one stick of RAM, make sure they are a) from the same manufacturer and b) the same speed specification.

That same millisecond/nanosecond time difference let's an SSD hard drive be dramatically faster than a regular hard drive. Furthermore, a PCIe SSD will outperform a SATA SSD as well, as it can interact with the faster PCIe slot. Not everyone uses RAID on their drives, but some do. If you are using anything other than RAID 0 or 1 then your HD access time (even if SSD) will suffer as a result. There are different quality levels of RAID controllers. Some motherboards let you use RAID natively, but a dedicated PCIe RAID controller can let you see 2-3 times better throughput.

A note on Overclocking (OC). I'm seeing this attitude quite frequently, "I'll just overclock to get the performance I need." Overclocking your CPU / GPU / RAM is like mashing your car accelerator pedal to the floor and keeping it there whether stopped at the lights or on the highway. Your system will get hot and without adequate cooling the life expectancy of your PC decreases dramatically. A good quality aftermarket CPU / GPU cooler is needed and some even take this further with water cooling. A decent case with proper air flow (even if water cooling) is also a must have. Mobo and RAM components (especially when OC'ing) need cooling too!

If you need to OC a part to get reasonable performance, then I recommend you buy a better component and get that performance natively at stock speeds. I appreciate that not everyone has the budget to upgrade, but OC'ing cheap components is a false economy and penny wise, pound foolish as they say. Sticking with the automobile euphemisms, if you are continuously driving your car at the RPM red line, you need a better car (or driving lessons :rolleyes: ).

Proper gear that supports VR is not cheap. However, it is possible to achieve decent performance on a reasonable budget as long as you take the above into consideration. Name brand components typically perform better than no-name Chinese knock-offs. The sum of all parts does matter in the world of VR. Good luck.
 
Last edited:
A post full of grossly incorrect statements. Reading a couple of forums doesn't give you knowledge of how it really works and OP has just proven that.
 
A post full of grossly incorrect statements. Reading a couple of forums doesn't give you knowledge of how it really works and OP has just proven that.

I was about to rep the OP for talking what seemed like sense. However I'm also aware of your work trying to get an early CV1 working with ED so I appreciate that you have a lot of knowledge in this area too.

Could you perhaps elaborate on your comment above?
 
Some of the early methods for optimizing VR are looking promising (SteamVR). Claims of being able to passably run VR on a GTX 680. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/...-vr-running-on-a-four-year-old-graphics-card/

Based on that, I wonder what kind of graphics hit a 770 or similar would have with VR on EDH, if at all playable.

EDIT: I read this yesterday and forgot that it does mention that the dev would have to build in support for this VR graphics scaling.
 
Last edited:
Please supply a list. Would love to read it.

gotta admit i do not agree with you on overclocking being like thrashing the nips off your car.

half the time there is naff all difference between a chip sold as low end and one sold in the same range but a faster clockspeed, and if at retail they both use the same fan then overclocking is fine.

i cant remember the last time i ran a cpu at stock (i dare say it was my ibm / cyrix 486 DX75... I tried to overclock that but it would not have it).

the modern K series chips from intel are sold with the expectation that they will be overclocked, and, sure if you run too many volts through them you may fry them, however so long as you do not do that, the worst that can happen is it will run to hot and so throttle back.

I do agree speed is not all about clock speed...... but still, if you are on the cusp of being able to run in VR, and have a chip you can overclock, it is a no brainer to ramp that puppy up and sucking it and seeing, before splashing cash.

my 5 year old i5 2500k at 4.3 ghz stomped all over it running at stock.. sure, i DID upgrade it for VR, but only because i had the money. I believe a new USB 3 controller to supplement my limited usb ports on the mobo would have been just fine for VR despite officially being under specced.

It is still running strong now in my arcade rig, and it has only ever had a £15 cooler on it so no high end cooling on it, nor has it ever had it.

currently running my i7 5820K @4.25ghz and ready to spank it even more when the time comes to need to... but right now nothing makes it break a sweat.
 
Last edited:
A post full of grossly incorrect statements. Reading a couple of forums doesn't give you knowledge of how it really works and OP has just proven that.

Can you justify that comment please? Sure some of the statements are 'dumbed down' but "grossly incorrrect"?

Anyway, what is your point? The OP makes a valid point, your statement is just that, an unqualified statement that does not add anything to the post. Qualify your points or please stop posting unhelpful and, quite frankly, rude things.
 
@OP - I'll break it down for you so hopefully no one listens to what you said

However, a lot of folks just don't get that all PC components need to be of decent quality to run VR efficiently.

What are you talking about?! Are you really going to suggest that my storage drive needs an upgrade because of VR? That would be absurd .. oh wait ..
Also why is it I need more system memory for VR ? And what does "PC components of decent quality" means? Made by an actual corporation as opposed to a garage in Uganda?
Ridiculous!

A recent report states only 9% of existing PC's are VR capable today. So there is a lot of groundwork that needs to be done by the majority to get up to speed.

According to the rest of your post that "groundwork" is buying new stuff. Great solution!

CPU, GPU, RAM, Motherboard and hard drive performance all contribute to the end result.

Correct only on an overall level. When you break it down though, CPU and GPU are the things you want to concentrate on if you have a tighter budget.
Nobody cares if they have to load for 5 more seconds if it means they'll be hitting a decent FPS.

Getting a whiz bang GPU running on a five year old mobo with mismatched clock speed RAM sticks is like dropping the engine from a Ferrari into a tractor. It might work, but not well.

Oh really so old chipsets are bottlenecking CPU and sys.memory performance that much? And having a lowered RAM speed is crucial to 3D Rendering performance ? Guess the answer to both questions please. The analogy was hilarious, thank you!

The heart and soul of the system is the CPU / GPU, but they talk to each other (and RAM) through the motherboard. The mobo does this using the PCIe interface for the most part. For best VR performance your mobo should support V3.0 of this standard, minimum. The various versions have significantly different data transfer rates.

It's kindof funny, I googled 'PCI-e generational performance difference" and your Source was the first result. Coincidence? Maybe, but you should google it too and see what the other sites are saying regarding gaming performance.

V1.1 of the PCIe standard is 31% throughput compared to V3.0. That's a huge impact on your data flow if you are running an older mobo.

PCI-E Gen 1 is only now being fully utilized - some 10+ years after being introduced. As for PCI-E Gen 2 .. well let's just say that I can run my 980Ti on it overclocked and I won't be utilizing it fully.

RAM has a lesser impact, but is still important. Lots of RAM allows you to preload large graphics files (planets, moons, stations, etc.) that can be transferred to the GPU quickly.

Large graphics files do not include planets and moons. The textures of those are generated by the GPU from a set of input data using a PG function.
The meshes of a station is not stored in system memory. It does pass through there though, so you get half a point here. Actaully probably even less as it'll be compressed vector data which isn't that much in size even for a million poly mesh. What's really stored so much in system memory is input textures. For lighting, for PG methods, for shadows, for all the many shaders and such .. That's why Elite didn't have a high memory requirement ... that is .. before Horizons and 64bit came along.


Loading files from RAM is significantly faster (by several factors) then waiting for a hard drive. If you have RAM sticks of different speeds installed, the RAM will work at the slowest speed. So if you have more than one stick of RAM, make sure they are a) from the same manufacturer and b) the same speed specification.

That is true, though HDD and RAM speed shouldn't even exist on your list of considerations if you're on a limited budget. VR Does not explicitly require more system memory or HDD usage ...

That same millisecond/nanosecond time difference let's an SSD hard drive be dramatically faster than a regular hard drive. Furthermore, a PCIe SSD will outperform a SATA SSD as well, as it can interact with the faster PCIe slot. Not everyone uses RAID on their drives, but some do. If you are using anything other than RAID 0 or 1 then your HD access time (even if SSD) will suffer as a result. There are different quality levels of RAID controllers. Some motherboards let you use RAID natively, but a dedicated PCIe RAID controller can let you see 2-3 times better throughput.

Again - nobody should care about HDD if they don't have the cash for the primary stuff. You want frames-per-second, not winning a race on who can load the level faster.

Overclocking your CPU / GPU / RAM is like mashing your car accelerator pedal to the floor and keeping it there whether stopped at the lights or on the highway.

Are you for real?! Some of us live 'post-1998 people' and have bios enabled power features that prevents just that.

Your system will get hot and without adequate cooling the life expectancy of your PC decreases dramatically.

There was a guy here a while ago that kept his CPU temperature at 100 under load. In that case you'd be right. For any proper overclock with a temperature kept 5-10C below the maximum defined junction temperature that is false.

If you need to OC a part to get reasonable performance, then I recommend you buy a better component and get that performance natively at stock speeds.

Counter-recommendation from me: If you want to make your CPU speed a good deal better by spending 25$ on a lousy CPU cooler without any risk of damage and without any signifficant degradation of the CPUs crystal - perform an intelligent overclock. Intelligent being the keyword here.

I appreciate that not everyone has the budget to upgrade, but OC'ing cheap components is a false economy and penny wise, pound foolish as they say.
False economy? There is no way you've ever done or tried any type of OC. That is so wrong that I can't even comment on it.

Sticking with the automobile euphemisms, if you are continuously driving your car at the RPM red line, you need a better car (or driving lessons :rolleyes:

Great, more ridiculous analogies. Because cars and sillicon based microprocessors have so much in common.
Let me give my analogy for OC. It's like buying a car with a decent but totally non-special heatsink and making it go much faster with virtually no risk now or in the future. Crazy, right? :rolleyes:

Proper gear that supports VR is not cheap.
You're right - it's not cheap, but it's for virtually none of the reasons listed by you except GPU and CPU.

Name brand components typically perform better than no-name Chinese knock-offs
I'll be sure to forward that to my Gigabyte's windforce fan bearings.
 
Last edited:
That is true, though HDD and RAM speed shouldn't even exist on your list of considerations if you're on a limited budget. VR Does not explicitly require more system memory or HDD usage ...

Two main themes here repeated many times from your voluminous post. First, VR is expensive. If you are "on a budget" then you need to make compromises. That is so obvious, I didn't bother to say it. Second, "VR does not explicity require more system memory or HDD usage." Quite true, but the more efficient your memory and HDD can handle data reads-writes the better your system will perform overall. By your logic, a USB drive with Windows installed is just as good as a PCIe SSD. It isn't.

The rest I'll let people read and make up their own mind. You've taken my post far too literally. You also pick apart individual points that are designed to go together, so any context is out the window. If non-CPU/GPU components have no discernible impact on performance then please tell me how my stock 980Ti scored higher than a Titan X with the same CPU?

Name brand components carry warranties, technical support (in English), and use quality sub-components. Again, obvious to the point of not needing to say it.

As for overclocking, I suspect I'm the only one here who has used liquid nitrogen to take a CPU over 7 GHz and kept it stable enough for benchmarking. OC'ing results in additional heat. People who don't handle that heat properly (or intelligently as you put it earlier) will have a PC that is like a car with it's accelerator mashed down. It will overheat, it will have issues, falter, then stop working. That's all I was saying, but I suppose nothing beats insulting someone rather than having a civilized discussion.

Have a super day.
 
this is what i like about consoles and psvr, no nagging feeling if only a spend £££ on that "puma sniper f4tal1ty extreme XL ti" card it will all work so much better. i mean that amd pro duo "amd vr" card £1000 ... just no! :eek:
 
I'm seeing a lot of posts from people who are looking to upgrade their PC's for VR and that's great. However, a lot of folks just don't get that all PC components need to be of decent quality to run VR efficiently. A recent report states only 9% of existing PC's are VR capable today. So there is a lot of groundwork that needs to be done by the majority to get up to speed.

CPU, GPU, RAM, Motherboard and hard drive performance all contribute to the end result. Getting a whiz bang GPU running on a five year old mobo with mismatched clock speed RAM sticks is like dropping the engine from a Ferrari into a tractor. It might work, but not well.

The heart and soul of the system is the CPU / GPU, but they talk to each other (and RAM) through the motherboard. The mobo does this using the PCIe interface for the most part. For best VR performance your mobo should support V3.0 of this standard, minimum. The various versions have significantly different data transfer rates.

Summary of PCI Express Interface Parameters:


Base Clock Speed: PCIe 3.0 = 8.0GHz, PCIe 2.0 = 5.0GHz, PCIe 1.1 = 2.5GHz
Data Rate: PCIe 3.0 = 1000MB/s, PCIe 2.0 = 500MB/s, PCIe 1.1 = 250MB/s
Total Bandwidth: (x16 link): PCIe 3.0 = 32GB/s, PCIe 2.0 = 16GB/s, PCIe 1.1 = 8GB/s
Data Transfer Rate: PCIe 3.0 = 8.0GT/s, PCIe 2.0= 5.0GT/s, PCIe 1.1 = 2.5GT/s

Source

V1.1 of the PCIe standard is 31% throughput compared to V3.0. That's a huge impact on your data flow if you are running an older mobo.

RAM has a lesser impact, but is still important. Lots of RAM allows you to preload large graphics files (planets, moons, stations, etc.) that can be transferred to the GPU quickly. RAM operates on nanosecond (billionth of a second) time scales where a hard drive runs in milliseconds (thousandth of a second). Loading files from RAM is significantly faster (by several factors) then waiting for a hard drive. If you have RAM sticks of different speeds installed, the RAM will work at the slowest speed. So if you have more than one stick of RAM, make sure they are a) from the same manufacturer and b) the same speed specification.

That same millisecond/nanosecond time difference let's an SSD hard drive be dramatically faster than a regular hard drive. Furthermore, a PCIe SSD will outperform a SATA SSD as well, as it can interact with the faster PCIe slot. Not everyone uses RAID on their drives, but some do. If you are using anything other than RAID 0 or 1 then your HD access time (even if SSD) will suffer as a result. There are different quality levels of RAID controllers. Some motherboards let you use RAID natively, but a dedicated PCIe RAID controller can let you see 2-3 times better throughput.

A note on Overclocking (OC). I'm seeing this attitude quite frequently, "I'll just overclock to get the performance I need." Overclocking your CPU / GPU / RAM is like mashing your car accelerator pedal to the floor and keeping it there whether stopped at the lights or on the highway. Your system will get hot and without adequate cooling the life expectancy of your PC decreases dramatically. A good quality aftermarket CPU / GPU cooler is needed and some even take this further with water cooling. A decent case with proper air flow (even if water cooling) is also a must have. Mobo and RAM components (especially when OC'ing) need cooling too!

If you need to OC a part to get reasonable performance, then I recommend you buy a better component and get that performance natively at stock speeds. I appreciate that not everyone has the budget to upgrade, but OC'ing cheap components is a false economy and penny wise, pound foolish as they say. Sticking with the automobile euphemisms, if you are continuously driving your car at the RPM red line, you need a better car (or driving lessons :rolleyes: ).

Proper gear that supports VR is not cheap. However, it is possible to achieve decent performance on a reasonable budget as long as you take the above into consideration. Name brand components typically perform better than no-name Chinese knock-offs. The sum of all parts does matter in the world of VR. Good luck.

This is a really bad way to think about system performance.. (I say this as a developer and ex-performance specialist) however it's the way that sales people for PC manufacturers have traditionally done it. You see performance is all about bottlenecks, not about the performance of each component. It's been common for example, for laptop manufacturers, to talk about all kinds of different metrics which their laptops support when for the last 10 years only one thing has mattered on a laptop, the speed of the disk. Because that has been the bottleneck for almost everything.

I'm no expert on VR but I'm certain this premise holds true, to understand the performance requirements you need to understand what actually holds performance back for this one thing and knowing the MB/s of your internal bus is probably not relevant. Only bottlenecks are relevant and for the last 10 years or so that's almost exclusively been about GPU performance and GPU memory. CPUs are broadly not relevant these days and motherboards probably even less so..
 
Last edited:
As for overclocking, I suspect I'm the only one here who has used liquid nitrogen to take a CPU over 7 GHz and kept it stable enough for benchmarking.

there is overclocking and then there is taking it to the limit.... I agree what you did is going to need some serious cooling (v nice overclock btw)

but if you want to use your car analogy

running an i5 2500k at say 4.3ghz (so still almost a 25% overclock) is a bit like sticking an after market exhaust, air filter and a mild remap on your car , or like driving it at 90mph on the motorway rather than 70.

other than slightly increased fuel usage (electricity) it is not really going to stress it.

on the other hand, your 7ghz overclock is like filling full of NOX, boring out the engine, sticking on a twin turbo and taking to a drag track :D - really fun to do but not something you want to do on your plod to work every day car
 
Last edited:
there is overclocking and then there is taking it to the limit.... I agree what you did is going to need some serious cooling (v nice overclock btw)

but if you want to use your car analogy

running an i5 2500k at say 4.3ghz (so still almost a 25% overclock) is a bit like sticking an after market exhaust, air filter and a mild remap on your car , or like driving it at 90mph on the motorway rather than 70.

other than slightly increased fuel usage (electricity) it is not really going to stress it.

on the other hand, your 7ghz overclock is like filling full of NOX, boring out the engine, sticking on a twin turbo and taking to a drag track :D - really fun to do but not something you want to do on your plod to work every day car

Haha spoken by a man who used to own a Fiat Coupe !

A rare bunch we are ;)
 
If non-CPU/GPU components have no discernible impact on performance then please tell me how my stock 980Ti scored higher than a Titan X with the same CPU?

My guess is that it was powered by politeness and good intentions rather than rudeness and negativity. Either that or the OS for the Titan X system was running off a memory stick.

[heart]
 
Two main themes here repeated many times from your voluminous post. First, VR is expensive.
That was said by you initially. I merely confirmed it at the end of my post. What was inbetween was ne saying that VR costs a particular amount of money and hence, as is always the case with that, one must position oneself according to one's financial capabilities.

"VR does not explicity require more system memory or HDD usage." Quite true, but the more efficient your memory and HDD can handle data reads-writes the better your system will perform overall. By your logic, a USB drive with Windows installed is just as good as a PCIe SSD. It isn't.
you made a post about a VR-enabled game in a VR section of that game. Are we talking about how to best run that game in VR or how to have our computers run faster?
And where exactly in my post did you get a hint to the logic suggesting that storage speeds don't matter at all?

You've taken my post far too literally. You also pick apart individual points that are designed to go together, so any context is out the window.
You have my assurance that I read your post in its entirety 2 times before commenting on it. I've no idea on how otherwise I could interpret what you said. If you believe there's somewhere where I've misunderstood you, please point it out.

non-CPU/GPU components have no discernible impact on performance then please tell me how my stock 980Ti scored higher than a Titan X with the same CPU?
There could, in fact, be a number of reasons. Let me see the setups, give me some data and info to work with. I'm an engineer not clairvoyant.

Name brand components carry warranties, technical support (in English), and use quality sub-components. Again, obvious to the point of not needing to say it.
I'm sorry I don't understand and/or don't know exactly what you're talking about here. Is it the circuit component quality? Cooling alloys, fan bearings quality? If so then please tell me which of the GPU brands you consider a 'name-brand' and which not. Do you know who the most selling GPU manufacturer is worldwide?

As for overclocking, I suspect I'm the only one here who has used liquid nitrogen to take a CPU over 7 GHz and kept it stable enough for benchmarking. OC'ing results in additional heat. People who don't handle that heat properly (or intelligently as you put it earlier) will have a PC that is like a car with it's accelerator mashed down. It will overheat, it will have issues, falter, then stop working. That's all I was saying, but I suppose nothing beats insulting someone rather than having a civilized discussion.

If your nitrogen project is true, I envy you. But then I fail to understand if you've ever tried to a achieve a "slightly-more-than-casual 24/7 OC'. Because if you had, then you'd know that heat is very managable and CPU degradation is a non-exsistant issue. Please look it up.

One last thing:
People who don't handle that heat properly (or intelligently as you put it earlier)

I was talking about "perform intelligent overclock" and not dissipating the heat intelligently. Doing the latter involves one being smart enough to buy the appropriate cooler. Doing the former involves the kind of stuff a person that did a 7Ghz nitrogen setup surely knows.

I guenuinely believe you're misleading people and I'd like to make it right. I don't think people reading your post should prioritize an SSD if they could get a slightly better GPU.
And OC is a great, great thing
 
Subscribed; +1 OP if I could

Really looking forward to seeing the specs of the budget machine capable to run ED in VR on a CV1 for example. I don't have a PC and am going to have to build one that'll last as long as my car... or my iMac :D

Overclocking sounds quite scary:eek:
 
5 stars for the OP, good general advice for the non expert.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Subscribed; +1 OP if I could

Really looking forward to seeing the specs of the budget machine capable to run ED in VR on a CV1 for example. I don't have a PC and am going to have to build one that'll last as long as my car... or my iMac :D

Overclocking sounds quite scary:eek:

Lots of modern mobos make it very very simple.
 
Back
Top Bottom