There must be really something wrong in the route plotter! Remaining jumps magically change after log off! LOL

VR SenseiMatty

VR SenseiMatty
Try yourself:
Plot a route with 50 or more jumps (133 in my case).
Make some jumps and see how many remainings (96 in my case).
Log off
Log on again
Reload the route: the number of remaining jumps has magically increased (101 in my case, 5+ more!) ...
Make a couple of jumps
Log off
Log on again
Remaining jumps 91

This happens... let's say 90% of the times! Am I the only one?
 
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[Diplomacy] Carnegie

[Diplomacy] Carnegie
I'm assuming the total distance you plotted is over 1,000,Ly.

The route planner doesn't actually plot over that distance, it just strings up to 20 1kLy legs together. That means that your last jump for every leg will be a shorter one than all the others. When you log in again partway through a long trip, it recalculates the entire route, which can lead to a different number of jumps, depending on how the multiple legs break down.

If you're jumping through areas of low star density or near permit locked regions it can exacerbate the issue.

That said, I've never seen it change by as much as 5, but 2 or even 3 isn't uncommon.
 

EWanderer

EWanderer
First of all, if you feel its a bug. File a report. Second: Yes. The Plot Router seems to be non-deterministic, that is produces different results with every run. Given the number of possible route alternatives due to number of systems, the algorithm probably is a lot of throwing darts at the map at random for generation of the route. Sure it sucks, that it doesn't do most efficient calculation, but seeing how routes with max distance can already take up to a minute to generate in my case, adding more requirements to a route would just increase that amount.
 

Sysmon

Sysmon
It can probably be considered a Travelling Saleman issue, so the optimal solution is not an easy task to begin with. ED's solution works if we can survive having the route change slightly during relog recalculations. At least we can plot longer than 1000 ly now!

:D S
 

VR SenseiMatty

VR SenseiMatty
DrewCarnegie said:
I'm assuming the total distance you plotted is over 1,000,Ly.

The route planner doesn't actually plot over that distance, it just strings up to 20 1kLy legs together. That means that your last jump for every leg will be a shorter one than all the others. When you log in again partway through a long trip, it recalculates the entire route, which can lead to a different number of jumps, depending on how the multiple legs break down.

If you're jumping through areas of low star density or near permit locked regions it can exacerbate the issue.

That said, I've never seen it change by as much as 5, but 2 or even 3 isn't uncommon.
Click to expand...

The biggest change I've seen was the last one that I reported. 99 and after relogging 91. But as you said it's most of the time a difference of 2 or 3
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
SenseiMatty said:
This happens... let's say 90% of the times! Am I the only one?
Click to expand...
I've often found that the number of remaining jumps in a long route changes between logging out and logging on again.

I put this down to the fact that, when the route was created, it had a specific start point and end point, resulting in a specific route (for the ship with its initial jump range) - breaking the journey between sessions, the route planner has a different starting point - resulting in a slightly dfifferent route.
 

Crank Larson

Crank Larson
You don't even need to log off and on to see this. Plot a route, make one jump, then go into the galaxy map. Change something (e.g. toggle "Use neutron boost") and the route recalculates. If you change it back again, more often than not it will be a different number of jumps. It is simply the way the algorithm works. On a long route I've noticed huge changes, and tried to play the system for a while to see if I could reduce my total jumps. There's no way to predict it, though - I lost jumps just as often as I gained them. It's easier just to stick with the original route. :)
 

Speedcuffs

Speedcuffs
Crank Larson said:
You don't even need to log off and on to see this. Plot a route, make one jump, then go into the galaxy map. Change something (e.g. toggle "Use neutron boost") and the route recalculates. If you change it back again, more often than not it will be a different number of jumps. It is simply the way the algorithm works. On a long route I've noticed huge changes, and tried to play the system for a while to see if I could reduce my total jumps. There's no way to predict it, though - I lost jumps just as often as I gained them. It's easier just to stick with the original route. :)
Click to expand...
Ah! Yes, I've experienced this, wasn't sure what was happening. (y)
 

Chaparral

Chaparral
I have had this happen, but only when I switch between accounts. Plot the route on account A, play for a while. Log off account A. Play account B for a while. Log off account B. Log into account A, route is gone :(
 

govny

govny
SenseiMatty said:
Try yourself:
Plot a route with 50 or more jumps (133 in my case).
Make some jumps and see how many remainings (96 in my case).
Log off
Log on again
Reload the route: the number of remaining jumps has magically increased (101 in my case, 5+ more!) ...
Make a couple of jumps
Log off
Log on again
Remaining jumps 91

This happens... let's say 90% of the times! Am I the only one?
Click to expand...
route planner is rebooted when you log in. When you go in gal map to replot the route it calculate jumps according to the weight of your ship. If your fuel tank is less o more full than when you plotted original route it is obvious the resulting jump number is different.
 

[Diplomacy] Carnegie

[Diplomacy] Carnegie
govny said:
route planner is rebooted when you log in. When you go in gal map to replot the route it calculate jumps according to the weight of your ship. If your fuel tank is less o more full than when you plotted original route it is obvious the resulting jump number is different.
Click to expand...

I don't believe this is the case. Jumps are calculated assuming maximum fuel, not the current fuel. It would be stupid otherwise, since if you plotted a route with an empty tank, then refueled you wouldn't be able to make any of the jumps.
 

Speedcuffs

Speedcuffs
DrewCarnegie said:
Cargo weight is taken into account when plotting jumps, but not fuel.
Click to expand...
The plot thins...

I don't have much experience with long range route plotting, but, on my recent 30k route back from Colonia I was puzzled several times.
I just thought 'they' had been playing with the algorithm again.
I let the plotting finish while remaining in Galmap, but it then started re-plotting when I returned to cockpit view. :unsure:
 

aRJay

aRJay
DrewCarnegie said:
I don't believe this is the case. Jumps are calculated assuming maximum fuel, not the current fuel. It would be stupid otherwise, since if you plotted a route with an empty tank, then refueled you wouldn't be able to make any of the jumps.
Click to expand...
That can happen, has happened to me back when I started, similarly if you plot a route and then load cargo the first jump might well no longer be valid.
 

Skip Rockbounder

Skip Rockbounder
Yeah, I noticed this happening a loooong time ago, I figured it could be the motion of the galaxy, fuel levels at plot time, I dunno, but DrewCarnegie's explanation seems to make more sense than mine does... but 10% is a hellova change.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Logging off/on or going back to the galaxy map replots the route.

Worth noting, the route plotter will use your current fuel/cargo carriage for the route. For my Asp, that's 49ly fully loaded vs 58 when empty.

If i plot when full, no jump will be bigger than 49ly. If i replot per the start of this post when I'm low fuel, the route will be very different.

Note, difference in range between empty and full here is just below 20%. I usually don't need to replot, but when i do just before a refuel, it's not uncommon to get a failure to jump due to exceeding maximum range and needing to replot. This is also particularly noticeable in sparse areas, where a 10ly jump distance delta can be the difference between a singl 50ly jump and a 5-6 jump detour to get around an area of either no stars, or no plottable stars (due to galmap settings)

EDIT: For reference, this asp has an expanded fuel tank to carry total 96t, so the effect is much more exaggerated.
 
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Jmanis

Jmanis
DrewCarnegie said:
I don't believe this is the case. Jumps are calculated assuming maximum fuel, not the current fuel. It would be stupid otherwise, since if you plotted a route with an empty tank, then refueled you wouldn't be able to make any of the jumps.
Click to expand...
So per my post above... that actually happens to me often.
 
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