Engineers Thermal Shock Reducing Damage Per Second Spec by 20+ percent on Beam Lasers? Intentional or a Bug?

GG7

G
I was over at Broo Tarquin modifying four 3C Beam Lasers and I started to notice that regardless of my actual DPS spec of the roll, if I also rolled the Thermal Shock experimental effect or bought the effect before completing the upgrade, whatever my DPS number was on the screen at the end, once everything was applied and I checked the DPS of that Beam Laser, my damage per second was much lower than the value shown for that upgrade roll. For example... I rolled a Light Weight Mod that had only a 1% reduction in DPS but I also rolled a Thermal Shock. When I applied everything and checked the specs, my DPS was no longer the 19.8 the roll indicated, but was 15.2! [blah]

Is this an intentional cost of applying Thermal Shock? There is zero mention of taking any hit to your DPS like this during the upgrade process, and considering we are talking a significant reduction here (20% or more) I wanted to see if anyone has any info on this?

These experimental effects are cool and I like to add them to my upgrades, but now I am wondering what they might be doing to my good rolls in the background? I have not tested any of the others to see if they cause similar nerfs, but after going through this process multiple times, I can say that this lowering of DPS with Thermal Shock is consistent every single time. Between 20 and 26% reduction in the DPS spec of the primary roll's DPS result.

Thanks in advance.
 
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bigity

bigity
GG7 said:
I was over at Broo Tarquin modifying four 3C Beam Lasers and I started to notice that regardless of my actual DPS spec of the roll, if I also rolled the Thermal Shock experimental effect or bought the effect before completing the upgrade, whatever my DPS number was on the screen at the end, once everything was applied and I checked the DPS of that Beam Laser, my damage per second was much lower than the value shown for that upgrade roll. For example... I rolled a Light Weight Mod that had only a 1% reduction in DPS but I also rolled a Thermal Shock. When I applied everything and checked the specs, my DPS was no longer the 19.8 the roll indicated, but was 15.2! [blah]

Is this an intentional cost of applying Thermal Shock? There is zero mention of taking any hit to your DPS like this during the upgrade process, and considering we are talking a significant reduction here (20% or more) I wanted to see if anyone has any info on this?

These experimental effects are cool and I like to add them to my upgrades, but now I am wondering what they might be doing to my good rolls in the background? I have not tested any of the others to see if they cause similar nerfs, but after going through this process multiple times, I can say that this lowering of DPS with Thermal Shock is consistent every single time. Between 20 and 26% reduction in the DPS spec of the primary roll's DPS result.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

IIRC, NONE of the special effects give you specifics - and many do indeed some with a DPS nerf.
 

Martind Forlon

Martind Forlon
@OP ... check in outfitting modifications, you have it there precisely shown. And it is intended. There was somewhere list with exact special effects changes to weapon stats, but when I last time searched for it, I was not able find it :|
 
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GG7

G
bigity said:
IIRC, NONE of the special effects give you specifics - and many do indeed some with a DPS nerf.
Click to expand...

This one seems to reduce the DPS spec by 20 - 25% consistently. I did 6 tests with a stock 3C Beam Laser and each and every time I applied the Thermal Shock effect to the upgrade, the final DPS spec was down that 20% or more from where the DPS spec was after the upgrade had run but prior to applying the Thermal Shock and completing the upgrade.

This is a real bummer, because my tests are pretty conclusive that you will loose at least 20% of your upgraded DPS spec if you add Thermal Shock to the upgrade. Doesn't matter whether you roll that upgrade or buy it using REP, the reduction is the same and happens every single time.

- - - Updated - - -

Martind Forlon said:
@OP ... check in outfitting modifications, you have it there precisely shown. And it is intended. There was somewhere list with exact special effects changes to weapon stats, but when I last time searched for it, I was not able find it :|
Click to expand...

Not sure what you are referring to here. I can check the MODIFICATIONS section in Outfitting and see the DPS spec, but this is AFTER the upgrade has been applied/saved to the weapon. There is no way to know in advance how much of a DPS reduction the addition of the Thermal Shock effect is going to produce, but as I said above, it is always at least a 20% reduction.

I can't see how this could be an intentional effect because you would think FD would at least warn the user that their DPS is about to get nerfed considerably.

Since I haven't seen any posts about this, I thought I should raise the red flag, because this seems to be a serious issue and always happens when TS is applied to any 3C upgrade I tested.
 

bigity

bigity
Yes, the reduction is intended. Just not displayed.

It used to be worthwhile because of the OP effects - you'd cook ships dead before shields dropped.


Since 2.2, its more of a DoT effect - but I really have no idea how effective it is, and if the trade off is worth it.
 

GG7

G
bigity said:
Yes, the reduction is intended. Just not displayed.

It used to be worthwhile because of the OP effects - you'd cook ships dead before shields dropped.


Since 2.2, its more of a DoT effect - but I really have no idea how effective it is, and if the trade off is worth it.
Click to expand...

Speaking to that I can say that the lower DPS is far more noticeable in actual use than any advantages added by the Thermal Shock effect. Aside from the graphical effects seen on the enemy ship's hull when struck by the beam, the weapon itself is noticeably weaker than a stock version. Therefore in my opinion, the Thermal Shock effect is all show and no go. [down]

This really sucks because I spent a good deal of time and resources creating several pairs of 3C beams with TS added, and now after taking the time to compare specs against stock versions and modified versions with the primary upgrades applied only, the Thermal Shock versions are the least effective of the bunch by a considerable degree.

Speaking as someone who really liked the visual effects produced by that mod, its more than a little disappointing to be forced to admit that TS is nothing more than a HUGE DPS NERF disguised as something cool.

I've stripped all my upgraded beams back down to stock and will now have to re-upgrade all of them again while avoiding ANY experimental effects. While I haven't tested any of the others besides TS, based on my findings today, from here on out I am done with experimental upgrades and will focus only on the primary. Fortunately, you can remove rolled Thermal Shock upgrades from your pre-saved upgrade before you complete the process, which is something I strongly recommend everyone does, at least on beam lasers.

Unless Frontier does something about the current situation, TS is a worthless addition to your upgrade that will result in an upgrade with much lower DPS performance than a stock version of the beam laser.
 
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Codger

Codger
Thermal shock has a secondary -25% damage effect applied by default (was like this even before 2.1.05).
 

UnhappyDev

UnhappyDev
Yes, intended. Thermal shock always had a significant downside that was comprehensively trumped by its upside, until things were 'rebalanced'

Some blueprints advertise a special effect damage reduction e.g. railgun 'plasma slug' effect, others do not. It's not very consistent
 

GG7

G
Thanks guys.

I'm definitely done with any of these special effects until FD starts being more open about what they do or don't do to improve your build. I really don't see the point of providing upgrades that can reduce any stock effects by over 20%. And to go further by not even bothering to notify the user at the upgrade screen is insane!

Oh well.... At least now I know what is going on.
 
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