Thermal signature/reading, sensors and Silent running need more GAMEPLAY !

[Commandeur_Brin]

The whole thermal mechanic is really hard to comprehend because like most modules in this game we lack vital information about the whole ships thermal signature.


What we need :


- A dedicated screen telling our ships current thermal signature with open vents and in silent running.
- New modules like isolation plating for the hull (very heavy) or internal heat buffer that would take up slots >>> More possibilities to specialize a smuggler vessel
- New type of utility mount : Active sonar to track thermal signature. We might need new UI and gameplay for this one :/


The way it would work :


- Ships sensor rating would not only influence the range but also the sensibility.
- When a ship manages to go below the sensors threshold it disappears from the sensor completely or intermittently.
- The hidden ship NEEDS to know that it is hidden. Probably a bit gamey but sill as a gameplay mechanic I don't see any other non frustrating way.
- When the other ship spins up it's active Sonar the hidden ships would be notified by the ships voice "Active sonar detected !" and the hunt would begin !
- Visual identifying of ships would still work of course and this would give meaning to slow thrust and black paint jobs !

What do you guys think ?!

 

[Commandeur_Brin]

The size of the ship would also matter and this would give small smuggling ships and edge ! *wink wink to the Adder !*

 

[stevesideas]

These kind of improvements would make dogfighting and hiding in asteroid fields much more interesting.

 

[Commandeur_Brin]

These kind of improvements would make dogfighting and hiding in asteroid fields much more interesting.

Thanks you ! I was kind of worried my post would go unnoticed like so many of them...

I was thinking that the Active Sonar Gameplay could work kinda like avalanche rescue operations : http://www.anena.org/5953-dva-techniques-de-recherche.

Sorry for the french text but if you look at the pictures you'll get what I mean.

You can distinguish ships thrusters so you might want to go either very slow in open space until safe or even completely still in an asteroid or debris field. Why not give it a spin in FA off !

 

[stevesideas]

I posted something about silent running some time ago. In CQC you lose target lock if you have something between you and the target. I think this should be implemented in game. Flying in res zones and being able to lose target lock with your attacker would give you a chance at least. Combine that with the ability to affect lock and radar signal by using silent running would at least give pilots a chance if they were under attack. More pro pilots would have to work harder !

 

[Boff'in]

from the official sources over the years it's 3 factors.
the temp on your left of your radar *needs* to be under 20% to be considered stealthy.
Class3 is the heat effecient modules, and some ships, federation ships and the diamondbacks are some of the most energy effecient (releases less heat) ships in the game.

Size is supposed to also be a factor, smaller ships are *harder* to scan claims Braben.

Silent running, stop the heat venting from your ship, but makes it build up internally.

So you can have "silent running" but if your temp is over 20% it doesn't matter - yeah, I'm not entirely sure how this works.

And it doesn't "stop" the scan, from another ship, it just prolongs it.

But that's defeating a scan through the mail-slot.
Gimbled weapons...different story.

 

[Commandeur_Brin]

from the official sources over the years it's 3 factors.
the temp on your left of your radar *needs* to be under 20% to be considered stealthy.
Class3 is the heat effecient modules, and some ships, federation ships and the diamondbacks are some of the most energy effecient (releases less heat) ships in the game.

Size is supposed to also be a factor, smaller ships are *harder* to scan claims Braben.

Silent running, stop the heat venting from your ship, but makes it build up internally.

So you can have "silent running" but if your temp is over 20% it doesn't matter - yeah, I'm not entirely sure how this works.

And it doesn't "stop" the scan, from another ship, it just prolongs it.

But that's defeating a scan through the mail-slot.
Gimbled weapons...different story.

So basically, as always, we don't know exactly how it works...

 

[Sergio Smegolia]

These kind of improvements would make dogfighting and hiding in asteroid fields much more interesting.

I used to play a game (Jumpgate FTW!) where you effective cloak an entire fleet of ships on asteroids. Great fun, flying along, nothing on radar then Bam! Ships all around you. Great days.

Smeg

 

[ROSS-128]

Ah yes, space sonar. For picking up those space sounds.

That said I actually am surprised that our targeting computers rely entirely on passively sensing thermal signatures. Is radar lostech in the 31st century?

I suppose it would be interesting to see something along the lines of passive sensors = thermals, like we have now. Active sensors are radar, they can pick up cold objects but your active radar puts a giant neon "HEY GUYS I'M A SPACE SHIP" sign over your head.

Stealth materials could make radar less effective, chaff and ECM could disrupt it (ie their targeting computer knows you're there but can't figure out your size or shape because you're surrounded by noise).

Technically though shouldn't silent running = maneuvering thrusters only? You'd think your main thrusters would put out a giant thermal signature when they fire no matter how many vents you close...

Speaking of which, it would be nice to have a "maneuver only" setting for thrusters in addition to on/off, where your thrusters would consume significantly less power (and therefore generate significantly less heat) because your main thrusters are off, but your maneuvering thrusters are on.

Your top speed (whole other topic there) would be unchanged, but you'd basically have to use your strafe keys to accelerate and you wouldn't be able to boost.

 

[Lobstris]

All for things that make the game feel more like a modern flight sim or a space version of 'Harpoon' (ECM, stealth, use of sensors, ship characteristics affecting sensors, use of active vs. passive sensors affecting visibility/stealth, ability to by RAM/stealth coating for ships both to assist in resisting scans, or reducing visibility on sensors etc.)

Actively trying to avoid NPC patrols before getting into the 'interdiction mini-game' would make supercruise more interesting IMHO.

 

[Luponator]

Ah yes, space sonar. For picking up those space sounds.

That said I actually am surprised that our targeting computers rely entirely on passively sensing thermal signatures. Is radar lostech in the 31st century?

ED is an arcade game, not a simulator. The sensor suit is simplistic (and not making any sense), the defense systems would suit an 80s simulator and the flight model is simple. To be honest, most of the 90s flight sims had better detail. Remember F-14 Fleet Defender or Falcon 4/BMS for example? The radar section alone took some learning. It's hilarious how ED sensors can track only one target, a human can see the target or laser fire before the sensor picks it up, the concept of heat and chaff are mixed and nonsense, and so on. It's simply no sim.

I personally would love and welcome some more complexity on that front but then again I played Harpoon 2

 

[Drelthar]

Just to help out a little. Your external heat signature level, is actually displayed on the far right, above landing gear/scoop etc. When silent running, the words silent running appear in place of it, as it is effectively zero due to vents being closed.

When not silent running, it looks a bit like a music visualisation, or a radio signal.

That's your external heat.

The heat bar with percentage numbers, is your internal heat, and, while it does affect the external, in silent running, that could be at 2000% and you'd still have zero external heat because of closed vents.

(the explosion might give you away though )

 

[VR Murgle]

Ah yes, space sonar. For picking up those space sounds.

That said I actually am surprised that our targeting computers rely entirely on passively sensing thermal signatures. Is radar lostech in the 31st century?

I suppose it would be interesting to see something along the lines of passive sensors = thermals, like we have now. Active sensors are radar, they can pick up cold objects but your active radar puts a giant neon "HEY GUYS I'M A SPACE SHIP" sign over your head.

Stealth materials could make radar less effective, chaff and ECM could disrupt it (ie their targeting computer knows you're there but can't figure out your size or shape because you're surrounded by noise).

Technically though shouldn't silent running = maneuvering thrusters only? You'd think your main thrusters would put out a giant thermal signature when they fire no matter how many vents you close...

Speaking of which, it would be nice to have a "maneuver only" setting for thrusters in addition to on/off, where your thrusters would consume significantly less power (and therefore generate significantly less heat) because your main thrusters are off, but your maneuvering thrusters are on.

Your top speed (whole other topic there) would be unchanged, but you'd basically have to use your strafe keys to accelerate and you wouldn't be able to boost.

Radar would have to go from your ship to the other and back, infrared (heat) moves at the speed of light form the other to your ship so scanning for heat tells you something there a lot faster...

But then the whole ship detection thing doesn't make a whole lot of sense anyway. For any detection system the speed of light would be the limiting factor so in most cases you would see where a ship has been but not where it's at. Predictive methods might give you an indication but until a ship is within visual range you can never be sure. Basically the sacrificed realism in favour of gameplay on this one.

Of course with the FSD everything changes and whether or not heat is a good way to detect ships in supercruise is entirely up to the imagination of the dev's because we have no idea how SC even works.