Those who dislike the concept of RNG Engineering, what would you propose as a replacement?

[Kicks]

Looking at the poll it is, for all intents and purposes, a 50/50 split between the community.

This (to me) suggests that it's not a terrible idea, but it's not brilliant either.

So I wondered what suggestions you fantastic commanders have if the RNG either went away completely, or was more predictable?

If you'd remove it entirely, would you gate it some other way? Cash? Missions? Spending a few romantic nights with your engineer under the blanket of the beautiful night sky?


Tell us!


(Also can we keep it civil! )

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Looking at the poll it is, for all intents and purposes, a 50/50 split between the community.

This (to me) suggests that it's not a terrible idea, but it's not brilliant either.

So I wondered what suggestions you fantastic commanders have if the RNG either went away completely, or was more predictable?

If you'd remove it entirely, would you gate it some other way? Cash? Missions? Spending a few romantic nights with your engineer under the blanket of the beautiful night sky?


Tell us!


(Also can we keep it civil! )

Once a specific result has been achieved with a certain recipe, that recipe should replicate those same results. Putting a+b together should result in c every time. Instead, it's a+b resulting in c, d, e, f, g, etc.

 

[mono]

This. If I mix boiling water with coffee granules and milk I get a drink of coffee. Not a chance of tea or vimto.

Once a specific result has been achieved with a certain recipe, that recipe should replicate those same results. Putting a+b together should result in c every time. Instead, it's a+b resulting in c, d, e, f, g, etc.

 

[Shanaeri]

The player should always have a way to get the stats or effects they wish that is within their control. The way in which the RNG could work is thus. If you are level 1, you have a chance of getting Level 2 sliders. If you are level 2, you have a chance of getting level 3 sliders etc. Until you reach level 5 in which you will always get level 5 sliders.

Special modules could be the same, up until level 5 where you can pick any you want. This way the player has an 'out' in terms of the RNG. They can keep spinning the RNG of fortune or get a better reputation to guarantee they get what they want. Using the sliders, with associated downsides would give variation, balance and hugely reduce the reliance on Skinner box mechanics

So basically, let the players use the sliders who's maximum values(both positive and negative) is governed by the players reputation.

 

[Caramel Clown]

I say leave little RNG in stats. It makes some sense from manufacturing perspective, because no item can be produced the same. It actually isn't as bad as it looks. It still gives you stats in a narrow defined range. Most annoying is special effect. Making it appear random was absolutely horrible and silly idea.
Make it random for the first time, so once you discover it you can apply it to any relevant modules or weapons after they've been modified.

 

[Kicks]

Once a specific result has been achieved with a certain recipe, that recipe should replicate those same results. Putting a+b together should result in c every time. Instead, it's a+b resulting in c, d, e, f, g, etc.

Hm, perhaps I misunderstood the stream yesterday. It's my understanding that if the recipe was coffee, you'd always get coffee of some quality (RNG at play) (but not *bad* coffee), with a random "Preferred Coffee customer" special donut on the side (maybe)?

Apologies if that's not the case.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Hm, perhaps I misunderstood the stream yesterday. It's my understanding that if the recipe was coffee, you'd always get coffee of some quality (RNG at play) (but not *bad* coffee), with a random "Preferred Coffee customer" special donut on the side (maybe)?

Apologies if that's not the case.

Thats exactly what will happen. Its the Grand Hyperbole Device that turns 'not exactly identical' into 'totally unpredictable and useless'. Its a case of intellectual dishonesty just to make a point about a computer game to strangers.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

My replacement would be player crafting and trading, but we all know that asking for that is similar to suggesting we start sacrificing newborn children at a goat altar.

However, if this is what we're getting and if people won't stop whining about the RNG, let them pay credits to mitigate it.

Mitigate it. Lessen it. Not remove it.

Give players the chance to pay a premium to in credits and materials to get better results, and let them choose which stats get the investment.

Put some sliders on those variability bars that we can move based upon how much we pay and allow it to be distributed as we choose.

And make it expensive.

That way if I know that if I've got a 1 in 5 chance of getting the stats that I want on a module and I've got the money but I don't have the time, I can add, say, 10% in extra crafting components and pay an extra 4 million credits to guarantee that I get the result I want. However, as I said, only to a certain degree. Say... Allow me to eliminate as much as 50% of the RNG on any one stat with the maximum amount of bonus payment, or split that percentage among all of them as I see fit.

If I've got the credits and not the time, I'll happily pay another 4 million credits on a 1 million purchase to ensure that I get what I want.

By allowing me to do this I get what I want without possibly unbalancing the system because I've paid a hefty premium compared to the guy who paid a little extra time to have two or three modules made because he didn't have the credits, and he got the same result because of good RNG.

He's happy, I'm happy, and everything works.

 

[amigacooke]

This. If I mix boiling water with coffee granules and milk I get a drink of coffee.

As far as I am aware, no-one has made a cup of coffee making game*. There may be a reason for that.



* someone is bound to turn up a coffee making game.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Thats exactly what will happen. Its the Grand Hyperbole Device that turns 'not exactly identical' into 'totally unpredictable and useless'. Its a case of intellectual dishonesty just to make a point about a computer game to strangers.

It should be identical, though. The margin of error shouldn't be measurable. If an "engineer" is mixing stuff together and getting a 3% variance every time, I wouldn't trust them at all.

 

[Sapient6]

Shift RNG away from the Engineer. The idea being that when you dock your ship and go visit the Engineer you know exactly what you are going to get.

If there must be an RNG factor, and I'm willing to accept that there is such a need, then the RNG should be in rare, optional ingredients that you can bring with you. So there is still lots of RNG, but when you are done gather the materials you already know what you've got.

Spending a big chunk of time collecting rare materials, tossing them into the fire, and then rolling the dice is a mechanic that feels tedious and unrewarding. While not the WORST grindplay mechanic to be spawned from the fetid bowels of the MMO industry, it's still foul enough that I wouldn't let a guest carry it into my house.

 

[freedom4556]

My only thing is getting weapons to match on the same ship. They should let me roll, and then if I have enough of the materials, say, "I'll take three of those".

And the special effect really shouldn't be random.

 

[Kicks]

As far as I am aware, no-one has made a cup of coffee making game*. There may be a reason for that.



* someone is bound to turn up a coffee making game.

Or several...

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=coffee making game

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

As far as I am aware, no-one has made a cup of coffee making game*. There may be a reason for that.



* someone is bound to turn up a coffee making game.

There's a few Tea Party simulators out there. Close enough.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/363620

 

[excalibus]

This. If I mix boiling water with coffee granules and milk I get a drink of coffee. Not a chance of tea or vimto.

but if I put in one brand of coffee it will taste one way and if I use another brand of coffee it will taste a little different. so it will still be a cup of coffee, but not quite the same, and if each time I make a cup of coffee I use a slightly different amount of milk or sugar it will also taste a little different, more milk and it will taste a bit creamier, less sugar and it will be slightly more bitter, a different brand of milk and it might taste different again.

 

[Ian Skippy]

It should be identical, though. The margin of error shouldn't be measurable. If an "engineer" is mixing stuff together and getting a 3% variance every time, I wouldn't trust them at all.

Okay, then I say it should not be identical, the margin of error should be measurable and if you can find a better experimental engineer in space I'd like to hear it.

Common man, these are not arguments. You like A because you like A, I like B because I like B. Thats about as deep as these things get, and any attempt to put some thin layer or pseudo-reasons on top is just sad. The devs make a descision about what they consider good gameplay. It has nothing to do with what one's brother says about tuning a car, or how you order coffee at Starbucks, or any such completely inane 'analogies'. People just like stuff or dont, and when we dont we make up all kind of fake reasons to make it sound 'better'. I dont hear people complain about having humans in the ship, which makes little sense. Or being able to travel more than a lightyear in our entire lives, or being able to fire MCs without being thrown off-course in space or any such things. We only bring this nonsense up to arbitrarily single out whatever aspect that happens to grind our gears.

Here's the single best argument people have against RNG: I dont like chance in my game.
Here'sthe single best argument people have for RNG: I like chance in my game.

 

[babelfisch]

I voted for RNG, so I don't really dislike the concept. However I would prefer a system where the special effects are decoupled from the primary and secondary stats. The basic crafting is good as it is in my opinion. Alternatives:

- Adding a second crafting stage where you can try to add special effects. I don't really like this because you would either get the desired effect or nothing.
- Turn the special effects into modules that you can buy from the engineers after improving your reputation and delivering requiered materials. You would still be able to do the basic RNG crafting.

Anyway, as said above I don't really care.

 

[Ozric]

I slightly apologise for not having an alternative as I am fine with the current mechanic, especially as no one has even tried it yet. No one knows how easy/hard the other materials will be to come across, we don't even know if the same materials are required for the different levels of modifications.

I would just like to point out that when the special modifications were announced the sheer uproar on the forums because everyone thought that you were guaranteed to get the weapons and how it would destroy the game. Now you aren't guaranteed to get the special modifications on the weapons and the forums are in uproar because everyone thinks it will destroy the game...

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Okay, then I say it should not be identical, the margin of error should be measurable and if you can find a better experimental engineer in space I'd like to hear it.

Common man, these are not arguments. You like A because you like A, I like B because I like B. Thats about as deep as these things get, and any attempt to put some thin layer or pseudo-reasons on top is just sad. The devs make a descision about what they consider good gameplay. It has nothing to do with what one's brother says about tuning a car, or how you order coffee at Starbucks, or any such completely inane 'analogies'. People just like stuff or dont, and when we dont we make up all kind of fake reasons to make it sound 'better'. I dont hear people complain about having humans in the ship, which makes little sense. Or being able to travel more than a lightyear in our entire lives, or being able to fire MCs without being thrown off-course in space or any such things. We only bring this nonsense up to arbitrarily single out whatever aspect that happens to grind our gears.

Here's the single best argument people have against RNG: I dont like chance in my game.
Here'sthe single best argument people have for RNG: I like chance in my game.

I'm going based on experience and realism. Chance does not come into play in engineering once you have an achievable result, unless there is a massive mistake made. Once a result is achieved, it is no longer experimental. 1+1 = 2 every time. Mixing a + b results in c. It should not have different results every time. RNG removes the player from the equation. Now, minor inconsequential side effects that add flavor would be fine, but not the overall function. Side effects are harder to replicate, like a cpu that can overclock much better than another of the same model.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

It should be identical, though. The margin of error shouldn't be measurable. If an "engineer" is mixing stuff together and getting a 3% variance every time, I wouldn't trust them at all.

Who said the engineer was personally involved?

He's just the guy who has the shop and the blueprints. The underpaid greasemonkeys on the floor banging away on your multicannon don't give a crap if it's within tolerances.

Edit: And because you just smuggled in 40 tons of Lavian Brandy when you came to place your order, THEY'RE ALL DRUNK.

Reap what you sow.