Thoughts on changing Supercruise drops

[AdmiralFloof]

Ooohhhh having the ability to superglide when dropping at the station, circling around it outside no fire zone and drop right in front of the mail slot would make for a very, very interesting gameplay.

 

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

Ooohhhh having the ability to superglide when dropping at the station, circling around it outside no fire zone and drop right in front of the mail slot would make for a very, very interesting gameplay.

Indeed, more skill & practice = faster docking
(stolen from Adam Woods commenting on docking Ship launched fighters )

 

[Dakron Nova]

The unpopulated instance issue is annoying and immersion breaking.

But I noticed yesterday that Nav Beacons dont seem to suffer from this either (mostly) so it must be possible to pre-populate.

Wish this could be fixed.

 

[Kicks]

How about some 'superglide' or something not specific to stations but used for belts and USSs as well?

At the ordinary drop distance (depending on gravity from surrounding objects, just like now), it'll say 'safe disengage ready' and if you disengage, you'll get into a kind of glide but much faster than 2500 m/s initially, gradually slowing down while giving you some control. Obviously just like glide, you'll have to be facing some cone extending from the station (just like the approach angle requirements for glide to engage).

This would make approach require at least some skill,

leave time for corrections,

you could easily glide past the station if you are approaching from the backside and as OP said

It would make the ambient NPC spawning much much better.

A generalized approach GUI could be devised, just like they did for orbital flight, engaging automatically when you are flying near approachable objects under a certain speed.

Alright, I'll take this

 

[AdmiralFloof]

Indeed, more skill & practice = faster docking
(stolen from Adam Woods commenting on docking Ship launched fighters )

I can already imagine it in my head, running away from pirate, had to drop as soon as possible so no time to align, had to drop into the backside, then bam superglide from there towards the front and dock safely. Oohhhhh that's really, really good

 

[Artie]

There is also another solution - speed up "internal clock" for NPC spawn and behaviour (docking, fights, etc.) during the transition, so you will appear in the fully populated and "living" instance. In other words - the instance initial state won't be generated after your arrival (after the transition), but before your arrival (during the transition). Just the real players won't be affected by this internal clock, of course, but will "appear" here once again immediately (with no delay) after/during the transition. Basically what is proposed by OP, but much faster. When this internal clock will be fast enough, it is just a matter of milliseconds, so the transition itself then doesn't need to be long and there is no "glide" mechanic needed. But I expect there are technical difficulties with it at this moment, same as other network/server/instancing related problems affecting the current transition speeds. And as hiccups on glide/normal space transition on planetary landing shows, that instancing/server/P2P lags are the major problem for really smooth and seamless transitions at this moment.

 

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

There is also another solution - speed up "internal clock" for NPC spawn and behaviour (docking, fights, etc.) during the transition, so you will appear in the fully populated and "living" instance. In other words - the inst.......

But But But...

 

[Atebits]

If the idea were optional I'd like it a lot. I'd want it to be optional.

With the way Wing Nav-loc is working and how much of a true pain in the      it is to get to a USS (same mechanic without nav-loc) I'd rather watch stuff spawn than suffer through more failing jump mechanics. I hate everything to do with who ships approach planets, USS etc. We should have the OPTION to do it mechanically, but the computer ought to be able to be just a tiny bit less stupid. By tiny I mean be a computer and a flight computer at that. We're flying at speeds calculated by C. Why in god's name do we have to pilot at something? And why can't we throttle down BEFORE a target since the ship miraculously does so anyway. Whatever... I'm going back to my voodoo lounge. The answer is clearly not enough chicken deaths and maybe a cow.

The geek in me is also in love with Battlestar Galactica style pop-in after jumps.

 

[FredTA]

I could be wrong, but I don't THINK that's how it works, I think you get that delay while the ships appear because the game is creating and populating a new instance, whereas dropping into stations and surface ports involes simple entering an instance that already exists. Could be wrong though

 

[Gryphorim]

What Cynaqq said.

 

[Cynaqq]

I could be wrong, but I don't THINK that's how it works, I think you get that delay while the ships appear because the game is creating and populating a new instance, whereas dropping into stations and surface ports involes simple entering an instance that already exists. Could be wrong though

Instance is a strictly networking related term.

You move your own instance with you wherever you go. If yours overlap with someone else's instance, then they'll merge (in normal space, depending on the distance). If you drop into a station, or near another commander from supercruise, then you'll drop into an already established instance.

If there are no commanders in anywhere that you can connect with (depending on several parameters, especially latency), be it a planet surface or a station and a new instance has to be created (matchmaking server decides it), you'll see it populated after you drop.

So, if there isn't a real live player in a region (if you are playing in a PG or SOLO too), you'll be placed in a new instance, regardless of the geometry being already loaded and visible to you, as it has nothing to do with instancing.

 

[FredTA]

Instance is a strictly networking related term.

You move your own instance with you wherever you go. If yours overlap with someone else's instance, then they'll merge (in normal space, depending on the distance). If you drop into a station, or near another commander from supercruise, then you'll drop into an already established instance.

If there are no commanders in anywhere that you can connect with (depending on several parameters, especially latency), be it a planet surface or a station and a new instance has to be created (matchmaking server decides it), you'll see it populated after you drop.

So, if there isn't a real live player in a region (if you are playing in a PG or SOLO too), you'll be placed in a new instance, regardless of the geometry being already loaded and visible to you, as it has nothing to do with instancing.

Right, that's what I'm saying, stations usually have other player's at, so the instance is already created, and populated, he's not talking about the geometry but the entities of the NPCs, which are created along with the new instance, so when you drop into a CZ for example that has no players, a new instance has to be created, and along with it all the NPCs

 

[SkyWarrior]

I would agree with any of this as long as it gets rid of the "error connecting to match making server" error

 

[lefty1117]

it sounds good but I'm not that bothered by it - I remember the beta days when there was no transition animation at all - you'd drop from supercruise and the station/planet would appear on screen with no "growing" animation. Like they would literally just appear. What we have now is miles better than that, but I'm not opposed to further improvement!

HOWEVER

If it fixes that issue of coming into a USS or other instance, and as the OP mentioned there's a delay before they come to life (combat zones are notorious for this in my experience) then I am totally all for a change. I wouldn't be surprised if such a transition would fix some occasional problems we see with instances not initializing correctly - not being able to select a side in a CZ for example.

 

[Boff'in]

landing on planets *does* take that extra time

Thorn and Devari can do rounds on SC vs ED.
Sadly you are both correct.
Neigther game is feature complete.

Both want running round on planets and ships, getting onboard and flying into space.

But you you have to look at the design goal.

ED is a galaxy, 430 billion star systems, simulated into existence by Stellar Forge driving how planets formed and exist (volcano's, atmoshperes).
The BSG is validated at every moment, because every commanders interaction with this galaxy alters the BSG in some manner.
We have a rich polical power system driving narative and the BSG (helped by powerplay), as well as the minor factions.
And we have the player driven narative.

SC hasn't shown off it's underlying systems nore intentions, other than UAE and people taking misssions.
they have shown a lot of very polished art assets that are now being strung together.

SC is more on-rails, and ED is more open and free.
Both generate their own design limitiations.

Frontier are approaching the design via Agile, Miniminal Viable product and adding to it, iterating.
They appear to be following my old companies design ethos

Function (get something that just works so the underlying code is robust)
Usability (start getting user flow and UI sorted the product is usable)
Cosmetics (being polished art passes to aid usability and flow to the product)
Kärlek (Swedish for love. Let everyone polish as much as they can)

ED is far from finished development. (but we've got a functional gameloop, and a game that's fun to play even if Season1 was more 1984 Elite online and with a paint-job, season2 is more elite2 with avatars and missions).
SC is far from finished development. (segments are comming together slowly but surely as is their game loop)

Both games are technical marvels.
Both have their own smoke and mirrors, and handwaves.

But their hearts & desires in two different places.

Having free-form flying, full on BSG interaction at every click vs more on-rails & no bckground sim,
causes a lot of our waiting time and gives SC appearance of more flow, but it's all slight of hands either way.


I would submit a question if ED fans would rather pay a subscription based server solution, than this "free" peer-to-peer solution.
People seam to be under the impression that would meant better instancing, and faster loads for BSG calls.
But are they willing to pay for that.

 

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

landing on planets *does* take that extra time

I don't think you read my OP correctly, I am proposing a system that will take no more time that our current SC drop... maybe even save you time,


And I think you meant to post your reply where I hotlinked from Here