Thoughts on Ship Shapes

[Tomx]

Looking at the new T11 design it strikes me that here are basically two different types of ships in Elite.

Atmospheric shaped ships - Panther, Mamba, FDL, Cobras, Asp, Anaconda, FDS, FAS, Imperial cutter, clipper, orca, dolphin etc. etc. (even T6 and T7 to an extent)

Non-atmospheric shaped ships, T11, T8, T10 etc. etc. which seem inspired by more recent scifi designs (and that other game ;-)!)

Realistically alot of this is legacy from polygon type graphics and it never really made sense that you'd need an aerodynamic shaped hull in space, however the atmospheric shaping of ships in elite continued long after more complex graphical shapes were possible (even in froniter elite 2 you have the imperial ships which were highly pointy designs, continued right up to the current Cutlass)

In lore terms the Orca, dolphin and the maratime themed passenger ships I'd always assumed were the spiritual successors to the Moray in the original game which was supposed to be capable of functioning as a submarine in the fluff supplied with the game and there was concept art in the kickstarter showing these vessels underwater.

However there are now 2 pretty clearly separate styles of ships in the game. In lore terms though it's interesting and i can see that you could make the two ship design styles relevant to the game once thicker atmospheres become a feature of the game with atmospheric ships being able to conduct atmospheric flight or landing through atmospheres whereas the non-aerodynamic ships wouldn't be able to (or find it much more difficult)

It would be a nice way of making these things relevant in both a realistic and gameplay relevant way.

Anyway was wondering what people thought.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

inspired by more recent scifi designs

You got that the wrong way around. Seems more like current SciFi designs (and that other game) draw heavily from 70s design language - the new T11 could be right out of Alien, Battlestar Galactica (the old one) or even Star Wars.

 

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

Hi

Looking at the new T11 design it strikes me that here are basically two different types of ships in Elite.

Atmospheric shaped ships - Panther, Mamba, FDL, Cobras, Asp, Anaconda, FDS, FAS, Imperial cutter, clipper, orca, dolphin etc. etc. (even T6 and T7 to an extent)

Non-atmospheric shaped ships, T11, T8, T10 etc. etc. which seem inspired by more recent scifi designs (and that other game ;-)!)

Realistically alot of this is legacy from polygon type graphics and it never really made sense that you'd need an aerodynamic shaped hull in space, however the atmospheric shaping of ships in elite continued long after more complex graphical shapes were possible (even in froniter elite 2 you have the imperial ships which were highly pointy designs, continued right up to the current Cutlass)

In lore terms the Orca, dolphin and the maratime themed passenger ships I'd always assumed were the spiritual successors to the Moray in the original game which was supposed to be capable of functioning as a submarine in the fluff supplied with the game and there was concept art in the kickstarter showing these vessels underwater.

However there are now 2 pretty clearly separate styles of ships in the game. In lore terms though it's interesting and i can see that you could make the two ship design styles relevant to the game once thicker atmospheres become a feature of the game with atmospheric ships being able to conduct atmospheric flight or landing through atmospheres whereas the non-aerodynamic ships wouldn't be able to (or find it much more difficult)

It would be a nice way of making these things relevant in both a realistic and gameplay relevant way.

Anyway was wondering what people thought.

....giving this some thought....

As all ships in this game are fitted with various thrusters positioned about the hulls then I suppose you could say why keep to aerodynamic / aquanautic shapes anyway?
Perfectly adapted shapes to either environment would probably look very alien to what we have as ship designs at the moment I would think personally.
And what about those supposedly UFO's or USO's, if you look at some of those shapes spotted over the years then 'flying saucer shapes' cylindrical, cigar and ball shapes as well as pyramidical and downright weird shapes have also been reported!

I see your point about the Orca and Dolphin etc. being seen as a possibility for underwater craft (the names being obvious as a link), but still (supposedly) being able to 'fly' in an atmosphere and obviously space.
Ship design in games is heavily influenced by past and current science fiction media, (I agree @Helmut ) other space oriented games and what that ship or vehicle actually does in the game will sometimes dictate some form of (new) design. Our current real world designs of 'space ships' is fairly limited at this present moment in time. The NASA Space Shuttles in some ways you could consider being loosely similar to the Orca, or Dolphin, (In FE2 the Puma) while the satellites and payload delivery rockets are mainly either a conglomeration of multiple hardware or long cylindrical tubes with thrust engines placed at one end. A pyramidal craft / enclosure at the other.

Iconic shapes of ships we all mostly know about or have seen, for example...The Enterprise, Millennium Falcon, and other iconic space ships from film media like 'Dune' for another example will influence design whether it be conscious or subconscious. I personally think modern game ship design will always be influenced by the past. It takes some effort and imagination and perhaps a certain amount of courage to design something (in this case a 'spaceship') radically different.

Designing something credible to transition from space to air to water you've only got to look at the typical UFO of old...saucer shape. That's what (I) we need!....

Jack

 

[Pville_Piper]

You got that the wrong way around. Seems more like current SciFi designs (and that other game) draw heavily from 70s design language - the new T11 could be right out of Alien, Battlestar Galactica (the old one) or even Star Wars.

The T-11 definitely has a Klingon warbird vibe...

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Atmospheric shaped ships - Panther, Mamba, FDL, Cobras, Asp, Anaconda, FDS, FAS, Imperial cutter, clipper, orca, dolphin etc. etc. (even T6 and T7 to an extent)

Non-atmospheric shaped ships, T11, T8, T10 etc. etc. which seem inspired by more recent scifi designs (and that other game ;-)!)

I'm really not clear on the distinction you're making here.

The T6, T7, FAS, FDS, etc are basically just boxes with some minor shaping, decorative winglets, etc. which would have terrible atmospheric performance. In what way are they "atmospheric shaped" in a way that the T-10 isn't? (The T-10 isn't massively different in shape or style to a really big Asp, for that matter)

The T-8 has those weird forward-projecting bits, but then, so does the Mamba, in a very different style.

The T-11 from the screenshots so far is not far off a Cutter or a FDL in terms of basic "wedge with slight winged-ness" shape, it just has the more "industrial" Lakon styling.

In terms of overall design language, there's always been a fairly clear distinction between Saud Kruger, Gutamaya and Zorgon ships (mostly fairly rounded "luxury" shapes) and Lakon, Faulcon and Core Dynamics ships (mostly fairly angular "industrial/military" shapes), then with further distinctions within each group. There's a few exceptions in there - the Alliance C-ships don't look very Lakon, whereas its obvious that the Kraits were originally intended to be and had a last minute switch to Faulcon - but Frontier haven't been too bad at setting those six themes up at the start and mostly sticking to them.



As far as how aerodynamically suited for atmospheric flight the ships might really be? There are some simulated wind-tunnel tests for a few of them at https://canonn.science/codex/research-notes/aerodynamics-of-spacecraft/ (summary: they're mostly pretty terrible, with even the aerodynamic-looking ones often having what would likely be instantly fatal flaws in realistic flight)

 

[jojon]

On that Moray, and its old lore fluff... -I believe it was suggested that ship was naturally used mostly by aquatic civilisations, in that mythical past where humans were not all alone with the Thargoids...

Sounds to me like an excellent opportunity to introduce a first peaceful developed alien race along with landing/submerging on water planets, when/if-ever that happens, and to then make the Moray either the first player ship from a non-human manufacturer, or licensed from such, or alternatively with the new race still planetbound, but being "uplifted" and immediately financially exploited and sold fancy glass-bead-encrusted cars...

Either way, heaps of opportunity for long arcs of Galnet content.

Just idly dreamcrafting.