I've been watching some videos on FA off and thruster training, and I've been wondering if analog thruster control makes a big difference over digital. I play with an X56, but I'm about to put together a button box with an additional 8 axis, two button arcade joystick which will be dedicated to thrusters. To the best of my understanding, the stick will have to be digital. Just wondering if analog makes a substantial enough difference to scrap that idea and just stick with the mini joysticks on my throttle.
Thrusters-digital vs analog
- Thread starter Gonzo von Richthofen
- Start date
I use a Thrustmaster T-16000FCS and have vertical & horizontal thrusters mapped to both a digital hat (on top of the stick) and an analogue input (joypad on the throttle), I can use both simultaneously as the situation requires.
Generally in combat (whether FA-off or not) I'll be wanting to use large momentary inputs so I mostly use the hat, but will use either (in combat) depending on need & available fingers.
For general manoeuvring (docking, landing on high-G worlds) analogue beats digital by a country mile ime, particularly for descending.
If I could only use one I'd go with analogue every time. I can make large movements with the analogue joypad, I can't make small adjustments with a digital hat.
Generally in combat (whether FA-off or not) I'll be wanting to use large momentary inputs so I mostly use the hat, but will use either (in combat) depending on need & available fingers.
For general manoeuvring (docking, landing on high-G worlds) analogue beats digital by a country mile ime, particularly for descending.
If I could only use one I'd go with analogue every time. I can make large movements with the analogue joypad, I can't make small adjustments with a digital hat.
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If you ever go analogue, you won't go back. There is no rational argument that less control gives more control. I use 2 non-twist sticks plus pedals (x/y thrusters, pitch/yaw, z thrusters/roll) and the level of control is absolutely superb. Claiming that having no control of thruster power could possibly be better is, frankly, asinine.
The only argument against such an approach is the cost, but then we aren't talking about effectiveness . . .
The only argument against such an approach is the cost, but then we aren't talking about effectiveness . . .
Main thing, IMO, is to split up your thruster controls so you can apply any combination of inputs together.
There's no point, for example, putting vertical, lateral and horizontal thruster controls on the same joystick - unless you're a mutant with an extra thumb that allows you to operate more than one control at the same time.
If you put, say, the vertical and lateral thrusters on a joystick hat-switch and then put the horizontal thrusters on your throttle, you can apply any combination of thrust at the same time.
By the same token, if you have sufficient buttons spare, it can be worth duplicating controls on both your joystick and throttle so that controls such as FA toggle, select target and select threat can be operated with either hand.
There's no point, for example, putting vertical, lateral and horizontal thruster controls on the same joystick - unless you're a mutant with an extra thumb that allows you to operate more than one control at the same time.
If you put, say, the vertical and lateral thrusters on a joystick hat-switch and then put the horizontal thrusters on your throttle, you can apply any combination of thrust at the same time.
By the same token, if you have sufficient buttons spare, it can be worth duplicating controls on both your joystick and throttle so that controls such as FA toggle, select target and select threat can be operated with either hand.
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can't you just map the "alternative control" setting in the options, to switch between the two modes?
map your thrusters "digital" for normal mode, and apply analog axis for alternative.
wished that option would also allow me to turn on and off the mouse relative mode without external tools
map your thrusters "digital" for normal mode, and apply analog axis for alternative.
wished that option would also allow me to turn on and off the mouse relative mode without external tools
That is how my vertical are, analog. On/Off digital would ram my ship flat on some planets straight to rebuy screen.
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I also use the Thrustmaster T-16000FCS, the default config has it set with single range and you have to hit a button to reverse. Big difference for me was to tweak the config and have the full range throttle with a little dead zone in the center. You can quickly shift from fwd to rev thrust and back
I use full range throttle too, I have a little bit of felt pad stuck inside the slider slot to give tactile feedback on where zero is with a bit of a deadzone as you say.
Thank you all for the helpful information. FWIW, I was looking to mount something like this next to my throttle as a minimalist dedicated thruster control: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07KQ25SDL/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_lCrtCbDVKQR0Z
Sounds like it won't really work out like I'd hoped, but it would have been cool if it did. Oh well. You guys have probably saved me a bunch of headaches in the long run.
Also, I looked up your YouTube channel, Pi. I'm looking forward to checking out some of your videos when I get a little free time.
Sounds like it won't really work out like I'd hoped, but it would have been cool if it did. Oh well. You guys have probably saved me a bunch of headaches in the long run.
Also, I looked up your YouTube channel, Pi. I'm looking forward to checking out some of your videos when I get a little free time.
I've found the same issue when I switched from joystick/HOTAS to keyboard-only, i.e., WASD/num keys for flight control. The keyboard is effectively a digital control input since it only produces full-deflection input on any given axis. That is fine for most combat maneuvers, and I can push the keys briefly for fine control when scooping or landing, but for certain situations such as evading interdictions a flight stick gives much more precise control. Interestingly enough however for large ships that don't maneuver well they actually tend to be easier to fly with digital input as their maneuvering is slow enough that you basically always want full-deflection input when you want to change direction.
What I would like to try is to get one of the new pressure-sensitive keyboards like the Isku FX Force to see if an analog WASD cluster makes a difference. That could potentially provide the best of both setups by having near-immediate full-deflection control input with the necessary analog precision with the same keys. The problem here is that I actually use the num pad for primary flight control axes (pitch and roll) and the WASD for throttle, yaw and lateral thrust so effectively I would really need an analog num pad more than I would need an analog WASD cluster. I suppose if someone made an force-sensitive num pad as a standalone produce that would be another option but I'm not sure if anyone produces a force-sensitive num pad.
I've never used my mouse for primary flight control, but if you are looking for a primary or secondary analogue control input for your left (non-mouse) hand would something like the FCS throttle not do the job? I'm aware that some players use a hotas for regular flight & switch to a mouse for fine aiming control.
My son had a Roccat keyboard for a while but it didn't last long before the membrane started to fail (he's very much a WASD+mouse player), his replacement Corsair kb has a considerably higher capacity for biscuit crumbs
Oh, if you do so be warned. I'm not the typical 'content creator' and nothing of this stuff is published with entertainment in mind or gaining some reps. This is all very rough and uncut as I'm not using any video software (too lazy). If you can live with that, enjoy!
Uncut documentary? (Just a go, no edits, turns out however it does?)
No cut scenes if that's what you mean, also very rough starts and ends. I'm no movie maker, I rather love to waste my time with playing the game.
Never bothered to do with my vids more than add music or (in one) a text screen before vid starts.
I have both a keyboard-only setup where I use the WASD cluster for throttle (which includes throttle/yaw/lateral thrust) and the numpad for primary flight control (pitch/roll/weapons targeting). The spacebar is primary fire. I also have a HOTAS setup using a Thrustmater T-Flight HOTAS that is redundant with these flight controls, i.e., throttle replaces the WASD cluster and the flight stick replaces the numpad. I've mapped the buttons so I can switch between them as desired, i.e., I can fly full-keyboard, full-HOTAS or a combination of keyboard and HOTAS input depending on what I'm doing. The advantage of this setup is that I have full access to my control setup using just the keyboard which means I can play using a laptop when travelling. I only use the mouse for plotting a route in the galaxy map or for free-look around the cockpit. It works quite well but ideally if I could get a full analog keyboard that would further reduce my need for a HOTAS setup although I always keep my HOTAS plugged into my main home setup so that it's immediately available if I want more immersive or precise flight controls.
My son had a Roccat keyboard for a while but it didn't last long before the membrane started to fail (he's very much a WASD+mouse player), his replacement Corsair kb has a considerably higher capacity for biscuit crumbs
I'm not sure what the quality control was on the original Roccat keyboards but I've been using an Isku FX for over 5 years and it's held up remarkably well with no key failures. There is some wear around the keycaps but other than that the membrane has held up quite well. I'm one of the few gamers who actually prefers a membrane keyboard (both for tactile feel and reduced noise) so for me the keyboard is nearly perfect. The latest model of the Isku FX Force is almost identical except it has a force-sensitive analog input for the WASD cluster (which includes the WASDQE keys). If it had force-sensitive numpad keys I'd buy it right now but I'm waiting to see if they develop a version that has full analog input for all the keys. The other issue is that my Isku FX keyboard doesn't have n-key rollover so I'm hoping they might add that at some point as well.
My son's Corsair keyboard has a nice feel but I prefer a membrane keyboard too because it's quieter. Mine is an old Dell one that came free with a PC about a decade ago, nothing special at all. Having disassembled mine several times to clean it and done the same with my son's old Roccat the quality of my cheap but old Dell kb (and plenty of other keyboards) is considerably better. I got the impression the £100 (GBP) price of my sons Roccat went into branding & looks rather than quality, however your mileage has obviously varied in terms of longevity.
If this concept becomes more widely adopted by other brands, or if the build quality proves itself I think the basic idea could be one worth doing. It's available right now on Amazon for only £44 so it could be worth a punt, although I didn't investigate why it was being sold so cheaply.
TL;DR Questionable quality aside I like it
I like the idea of that Analogue one
about hardware:
my keyboard is a like 12 or more years old Medion one that came with my first discounter PC.
my mouse at work is a 11 year old Microsoft optical 3-button 1 wheel model, that is starting to fall apart (fingernails started to dig into the plastic)
during that time, i have bought me the third or fourth logitech gaming mouse because the wheel-button failed.
for the keyboard, i have an alternative one from cherry with mechanical keys. makes hardly a difference to the Medion.
those gaming tools are all expensive, but the used parts are obviously the cheapest to be found...
my keyboard is a like 12 or more years old Medion one that came with my first discounter PC.
my mouse at work is a 11 year old Microsoft optical 3-button 1 wheel model, that is starting to fall apart (fingernails started to dig into the plastic)
during that time, i have bought me the third or fourth logitech gaming mouse because the wheel-button failed.
for the keyboard, i have an alternative one from cherry with mechanical keys. makes hardly a difference to the Medion.
those gaming tools are all expensive, but the used parts are obviously the cheapest to be found...