"Thunderchild" is Jameson's Son

[Louis Calvert]

We now know that Jameson's body wasn't (visibly) in the crash, and someone set up those beacons...

This is pure speculation, but here's what I think happened next: Baby Jameson found the crash years later based on the logs he sent to his infant, recovered the body, set up the beacons for posterity. Then set about a campaign to avenge the 'betrayal' of Jameson by taking down INRA and in so doing discovered the Mycoid Vaccine we know INRA already developed. They then delivered it to the Thargoids. We know that was (pretty much) one of the plotlines of FFE - makes sense that it would play out here in one way or another (though with the dates altered ofc), and it maybe explains why the Thargoids are Mycoid free and apparently no-longer annoyed at humanity by 3270 (Out of the Darkness).

I'm not sure about the vaccine part, since I can't see why the Thargoids wouldn't have been able to cure it themselves - we seemed to develop the antidote very quickly so presumably they would too - but the rest I believe is correct.

So, here's the evidence I've based this on:

The Sarasvati Logs: https://canonn.science/codex/gcs-sarasvati/

Based on what we know now, I suspect Thunderchild is a group started by Jameson's child - literally "Thunder Child" and that it was some sort of team that set about uncovering "the truth" headed up by Jameson's Son.

"Thunderchild went dark in '69" - Jameson's child would be at least 20 years old by then - old enough to be taking part in something like this.

I believe the last message on the logs is aimed at Jameson's Grandchild, given the very personal signoff at the end (The child of Julian and Izzy (Isabel?):

Spoiler

"Unit 01, if you’re receiving this, then I’ve got good news and bad news. The good news is the contingency worked.

The bad news is the contingency was necessary.

Before everything ended, Dr, Lockhart from Project Equinox managed to track me down; all the data in this archive, all their findings… you’re going to need it for what comes ahead. The whole Galaxy is going to need it. In all likelihood, by the time you’ve gotten this message, me, Izzy, and the rest of the Thunderchild team will be long gone. And I’m sorry, I truly am. We’ve given you an enormous responsibility, one you never asked for.

Listen, we all made mistakes. I’m not going to pretend that the Cooperative didn’t collapse for a reason. We watched the hopes and dreams of generations before us crumble in the face of political infighting in the decades following the war. But out of everything we got wrong, out of all our failures, you weren’t one of them.

Whatever else happens, I’m proud of you. We all are.

-Julian Lyons"

Julian Lyons - one meaning of this name is "descendent of" and "Spear" or "Javelin" (source). - so, Julian descendent of the Spear.

We now know that Jameson could be called the Spear of humanity, since he Spearheaded the attack against the Thargoids that effectively ended the war.

Thunderchild (AKA Julian Jameson) sent this message to his child "Unit 01" to continue the work.

 

[Louis Calvert]

What if "The good news is the contingency worked." is a reference to something like bringing down GalCop, we know they collapsed around that time, and this "Listen, we all made mistakes. I’m not going to pretend that the Cooperative didn’t collapse for a reason." sounds like maybe ad admission that Thunderchild was responsible, maybe.

 

[Rob At Work]

I remember the summer of '69, seemed to last for ever,.... those were the best days of our lives

 

[StiTch]

Farewell, Thunderchild.

 

[Aldaris]

The general belief behind Julian's message is that either it was only a lightspeed message, or has only just been broadcast in 3303. It's the only things that properly explain the long gone part. This is especially relevant as the listening post that leads to the Saravasti indicates the message it received have only just started broadcasting as a result of renewed Thargoid activity. Realistically, Unit 01 is something that is going to be immune to the passage of time, so referring to a base or organisation (or my theory, AI).

Also, I really can't see how Lori is Jameson's great-granddaughter without the Jameson line having some old age nookie several generations in a row, especially as we don't know the age of John's child. Even if we assume he's just been born/still a fetus, even if we assume 40 years before next generation, Lori would have been born around 3230. Both generations between her and John would need to be having a child at around 60 for her to be his great-granddaughter. I suppose later age reproduction could be the norm if aging has been slowed down in the future. Her existence becomes even more of a problem under your theory, as it definitely shifts things towards a younger age before procreation.

 

[Louis Calvert]

Sure, active lifespans are supposed to easily be well into the 100's in the 3300's. Even nowadays it's possible to have an odd family tree if you include remarriage and things like adoption, late pregnancies, etc, then if you include better healthcare and life-extending medical tech, I don't think Lori is an issue I mean you can also include just lying in there too, I bet there's a lot of Jameson Great-Grandchildren out there hustling free drinks

And 'long gone' could easily mean 1 year or 150,000 - there's no way to determine age based on colloquialisms. I've described a pen I lost a few months ago as "long gone"

 

[Aldaris]

Sure, active lifespans are supposed to easily be well into the 100's in the 3300's. Even nowadays it's possible to have an odd family tree if you include remarriage and things like adoption, late pregnancies, etc, then if you include better healthcare and life-extending medical tech, I don't think Lori is an issue I mean you can also include just lying in there too, I bet there's a lot of Jameson Great-Grandchildren out there hustling free drinks

And 'long gone' could easily mean 1 year or 150,000 - there's no way to determine age based on colloquialisms. I've described a pen I lost a few months ago as "long gone"

Is there any evidence of life spans being that long? No reason to assume that reproductive age continues that long either.

You wouldn't say long gone for 1 year, because one year isn't a long time. The fact we're talking about a group of humans with their lives left to live indicates we're talking about the passage of the lifetimes of several people before the recipient would read the message. Why would you say Unit 01 if you're talking about your child as well?

Remember, the listening post says the message it has received pointing towards the Saravasti has only just begun to be broadcast as a result of renewed Thargoid activity. That backs up the idea that they knew whoever was supposed to read it, they would be long dead. All this indicates that Thunderchild is not Jameson's son, and Unit 01 not his grandchild.

 

[Louis Calvert]

Is there any evidence of life spans being that long? No reason to assume that reproductive age continues that long either.

It's mentioned in the novels - Rebecca is well in excess of 100 years old and still very active, and Luko is also much older than he appears, possibly well into triple digits (both of them are killed, they don't die naturally), it's not considered unusual. We have full cyborgs too in ED (Jaques is a cyborg and is described as being Centuries Old https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/05-MAY-3302, as are several characters in the novels, etc) so cybernetic replacement of defective organs or entire bodies is entirely possible/common, even if you don't include cloning and gene-therapies (both of which we know exist in ED, Full body cloning and memory transfer is a staple plot element of Premonition and Reclamation), Out of the Darkness talks about a lot of medical tech, healing wounds is fast and easy with even primitive field kits, there's brain implants that can interface flawlessly and enhance brainpower and abilities and allow computer access, etc. - so brain degeneration almost certainly isn't a factor either. Essentially, it seems it's possible that humans in 3300 are essentially immortal assuming you've got enough money.

It's also simple common sense, some of the biggest industries on Earth in 2017 relate to prolonging the active lifespan and looking/feeling younger - why would that be any different 1000 years in the future where nanotech and bio-engineering is commonplace and we zoom all over the galaxy in physics defying boxes? To be honest, the remarkable thing about ED is that technology isn't more advanced.

Even if you ignore sci-fi - It's possible for natural males to father children well into old age, the oldest recorded father is something like 95 years old, although fertility drops after 40 it's not impossible. Women can elect to have ovum frozen for use later in life, etc. etc. Sperm can also be frozen and used later. This isn't groundbreaking science even in 2017, so I think it's fairly safe to assume that in 3300 it's possible for a man born in 3100 to have a Great-Granddaughter alive and well in 3300. It's only 200 years, so 4 generations in 200 years isn't really that extraordinary - it's actually exactly double the "on the numbers" Generation count for present day (so, I assume projecting that 1000 years into the future makes sense (Generations are assumed to occur at 25 year currently for simplicity sake: https://isogg.org/wiki/How_long_is_a_generation?_Science_provides_an_answer)

You wouldn't say long gone for 1 year, because one year isn't a long time. The fact we're talking about a group of humans with their lives left to live indicates we're talking about the passage of the lifetimes of several people before the recipient would read the message.

You might not say "long gone" after one year. But many others might, as I said, I have after only a few months. It's an idiom or colloquialism, it doesn't "mean" anything more than whatever is meant by the person saying it. Plus I think I've explained that now with the extension below

Why would you say Unit 01 if you're talking about your child as well?

Again I think this next answer falls into the "common sense" bit, ,but I'll answer it anyway: you might say "unit 01" if you were sending a message in the clear after being instrumental in something shady and you didn't want to give away who it was to but wanted to communicate to that person that it was for them - you know, a code - and since it was picked up by a random pilot who happened to fly past and scan the comms-array with a cheap and readily available scanner - Julian was entirely right not to use names I assume Unit 01 is a family joke or something "Unit 01" = First child born. My Gran calls me "#1 Grandson" in her letters - the joke is, i'm her only grandson. I can imagine something like Unit 01 being a similar joke - or it's a reference to the cell that Jameson grand-junior is running, whatever. I think suggesting it's not directed at a human simply because it doesn't say "Dear Bob," is a bit silly -also, see below, we know Unit 01 is a person

Remember, the listening post says the message it has received pointing towards the Saravasti has only just begun to be broadcast as a result of renewed Thargoid activity. That backs up the idea that they knew whoever was supposed to read it, they would be long dead. All this indicates that Thunderchild is not Jameson's son, and Unit 01 not his grandchild.

Not quite so. The Listening post broadcasts this message:

Spoiler

"…Communication Source Identified: Gail…

…Designation: Project Thunderchild Unit 01…

Signal Match Detected Distance to Signal 591.10Ly.

I’ve detected a encoded transmission emitted from a location 591.10ly from this beacon. This signal has triggered a new subroutine in my core programme. The signal source appears to have been dormant until recently and began transmitting seemingly as a reaction to news of the Thargoid’s return being broadcast. I have analysed the code contained in the subroutine and discovered a small data packet that contains various overlapping signals regarding the work of a Dr. Calvin, designated Project Equinox. These appear to be markers leading to an archive of some kind containing Calvin’s research.

:2015231184 315185
93::M-AB-HMC,R-HMC-I-I-I-I:M-HMC-I-I-I::
145221121::Null-Null,Null-NH3-Ar-Ar-N-Ne:Null-Null-Null-He:F0D::Ship name::62-24 3A-P:

In the up-coming struggle Dr Calvin’s data may be critical. Calling all Galcop personnel, we must find Calvin’s Archive and retrieve the data at all costs.

…End of Transmission…"

On the surface, yes it's clear that the LP is saying "I picked up a signal from the Sarasvati because the Thargoids have returned" - so you are naturally assuming that it's current - i.e. intended for someone now.

But - look at the last line there: "Calling all Galcop personnel..." It's clear this is an old message, pre 3200.

This is saying this beacon detected a signal from the Sarasvati, obviously - but I think maybe you missed the start of the message: "…Communication Source Identified: Gail……Designation: Project Thunderchild Unit 01…" - so, Gail is the source of the transmission the LP picked up, and she is Unit 01 -and she's on (or near) the Sarasvati.

As far as I'm concerned, this means that Gail Jameson is Unit 01, I suspect she might have been in statis onboard the Sarasvati, she was awoken by a signal that the Thargoids have returned, she triggered the beacon to call all GalCop personnel to action... then discovered that it has been a long time. She got the message from her father, discovers that Thunderchild, her parents, are long gone, and... who knows what's next - I guess that's what we need to figure out.

I assume that Gail went somewhere - started the search for the Archive herself. After this much time she probably figures she's entirely alone...

If you look at the Sarasvati it looks like there's actually another smaller ship attached underneath - maybe after the project was cancelled, Lockhart and her crew hijacked the Sarasvati. Over the years they got new supplies and things and managed to get back in contact with Thunderchild, set up a bunch of contingencies (as mentioned in Julian's message). Maybe Gail decided to stay aboard in stasis as one of the contingencies. That might explain why it's in a strange place (they hid it well away from the bubble), maybe that additional ship of cargo pods was the last resupply...

EDIT: Or, Gail is an AI that the Jameson's made to help defeat the Thargoids. I think that still counts as a child of the Jamesons. But either way, whoever Gail is, that doesn't change Thunderchild being Jameson's son.

 

[Aldaris]

It's mentioned in the novels - Rebecca is well in excess of 100 years old and still very active, and Luko is also much older than he appears, possibly well into triple digits (both of them are killed, they don't die naturally), it's not considered unusual. We have full cyborgs too in ED (Jaques is a cyborg and is described as being Centuries Old https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/05-MAY-3302, as are several characters in the novels, etc) so cybernetic replacement of defective organs or entire bodies is entirely possible/common, even if you don't include cloning and gene-therapies (both of which we know exist in ED, Full body cloning and memory transfer is a staple plot element of Premonition and Reclamation), Out of the Darkness talks about a lot of medical tech, healing wounds is fast and easy with even primitive field kits, there's brain implants that can interface flawlessly and enhance brainpower and abilities and allow computer access, etc. - so brain degeneration almost certainly isn't a factor either. Essentially, it seems it's possible that humans in 3300 are essentially immortal assuming you've got enough money.


It's also simple common sense, some of the biggest industries on Earth in 2017 relate to prolonging the active lifespan and looking/feeling younger - why would that be any different 1000 years in the future where nanotech and bio-engineering is commonplace and we zoom all over the galaxy in physics defying boxes? To be honest, the remarkable thing about ED is that technology isn't more advanced.

Even if you ignore sci-fi - It's possible for natural males to father children well into old age, the oldest recorded father is something like 95 years old, although fertility drops after 40 it's not impossible. Women can elect to have ovum frozen for use later in life, etc. etc. Sperm can also be frozen and used later. This isn't groundbreaking science even in 2017, so I think it's fairly safe to assume that in 3300 it's possible for a man born in 3100 to have a Great-Granddaughter alive and well in 3300. It's only 200 years, so 4 generations in 200 years isn't really that extraordinary - it's actually exactly double the "on the numbers" Generation count for present day (so, I assume projecting that 1000 years into the future makes sense (Generations are assumed to occur at 25 year currently for simplicity sake: https://isogg.org/wiki/How_long_is_a_generation?_Science_provides_an_answer)

It isn't about it being possible, it's about it being common. It's about when people tend to have children. It's about how fertile people will still be in old age. Nothing to suggest any of those change in the future.

You

might not say "long gone" after one year. But many others might, as I said, I have after only a few months. It's an idiom or colloquialism, it doesn't "mean" anything more than whatever is meant by the person saying it. Plus I think I've explained that now with the extension below

Not about how I use it though, it's use is to indicate a long time has passed, and that person is no longer around. 1 one year is not a long time. A lifetime is, and as we're talking about several people's lifetimes, it cannot be any time soon. The message is for a recipient for which the sender will no longer be around.

Again I think this next answer falls into the "common sense" bit, ,but I'll answer it anyway: you might say "unit 01" if you were sending a message in the clear after being instrumental in something shady and you didn't want to give away who it was to but wanted to communicate to that person that it was for them - you know, a code - and since it was picked up by a random pilot who happened to fly past and scan the comms-array with a cheap and readily available scanner - Julian was entirely right not to use names I assume Unit 01 is a family joke or something "Unit 01" = First child born. My Gran calls me "#1 Grandson" in her letters - the joke is, i'm her only grandson. I can imagine something like Unit 01 being a similar joke - or it's a reference to the cell that Jameson grand-junior is running, whatever. I think suggesting it's not directed at a human simply because it doesn't say "Dear Bob," is a bit silly -also, see below, we know Unit 01 is a person

But nothing they were doing is shady. They were authorised projects. Unit 01 just does not make sense for a name or a cover. I'm not rejected it being directed at a human just because it doesn't say Dear Bob at the start. You could use countless words to describe someone without referring to something as inpersonal as Unit 01. We don't know Unit 01 is a person at all.

Not quite so. The Listening post broadcasts this message:

Spoiler

"…Communication Source Identified: Gail…

…Designation: Project Thunderchild Unit 01…

Signal Match Detected Distance to Signal 591.10Ly.

I’ve detected a encoded transmission emitted from a location 591.10ly from this beacon. This signal has triggered a new subroutine in my core programme. The signal source appears to have been dormant until recently and began transmitting seemingly as a reaction to news of the Thargoid’s return being broadcast. I have analysed the code contained in the subroutine and discovered a small data packet that contains various overlapping signals regarding the work of a Dr. Calvin, designated Project Equinox. These appear to be markers leading to an archive of some kind containing Calvin’s research.

:2015231184 315185
93::M-AB-HMC,R-HMC-I-I-I-I:M-HMC-I-I-I::
145221121::Null-Null,Null-NH3-Ar-Ar-N-Ne:Null-Null-Null-He:F0D::Ship name::62-24 3A-P:

In the up-coming struggle Dr Calvin’s data may be critical. Calling all Galcop personnel, we must find Calvin’s Archive and retrieve the data at all costs.

…End of Transmission…"

On the surface, yes it's clear that the LP is saying "I picked up a signal from the Sarasvati because the Thargoids have returned" - so you are naturally assuming that it's current - i.e. intended for someone now.

But - look at the last line there: "Calling all Galcop personnel..." It's clear this is an old message, pre 3200.

This is saying this beacon detected a signal from the Sarasvati, obviously - but I think maybe you missed the start of the message: "…Communication Source Identified: Gail……Designation: Project Thunderchild Unit 01…" - so, Gail is the source of the transmission the LP picked up, and she is Unit 01 -and she's on (or near) the Sarasvati.

As far as I'm concerned, this means that Gail Jameson is Unit 01, I suspect she might have been in statis onboard the Sarasvati, she was awoken by a signal that the Thargoids have returned, she triggered the beacon to call all GalCop personnel to action... then discovered that it has been a long time. She got the message from her father, discovers that Thunderchild, her parents, are long gone, and... who knows what's next - I guess that's what we need to figure out.

I assume that Gail went somewhere - started the search for the Archive herself. After this much time she probably figures she's entirely alone...

If you look at the Sarasvati it looks like there's actually another smaller ship attached underneath - maybe after the project was cancelled, Lockhart and her crew hijacked the Sarasvati. Over the years they got new supplies and things and managed to get back in contact with Thunderchild, set up a bunch of contingencies (as mentioned in Julian's message). Maybe Gail decided to stay aboard in stasis as one of the contingencies. That might explain why it's in a strange place (they hid it well away from the bubble), maybe that additional ship of cargo pods was the last resupply...

EDIT: Or, Gail is an AI that the Jameson's made to help defeat the Thargoids. I think that still counts as a child of the Jamesons. But either way, whoever Gail is, that doesn't change Thunderchild being Jameson's son.

I never denied that the message is pre 3200, we know it is, but what you've missed is that the reference to GalCop is because the listening post is old defunct abandoned GalCop post. It is simply following its programming.

The Source and the Designation headers are incomplete, and without context can refer to several different things. Hell, the Designation could be for the listening post itself.

There would be no need for the ship to start broadcasting now, unless the archive was meant to be found now. It's broadcasting now because the contingency is necessary as they've returned. The ship and the message from Lyons are a time capsule. Unit 01 is not an individual.

This is really reaching in order to fit your theory that Thunderchild is for some reason Jameson's child, and it's based on nothing.

 

[Louis Calvert]

I'll be honest Aldaris, I'm pretty sure you're a forum troll

 

[M. Volgrand]

This theory lacks of evidence to sustain it. It is based on mere suppositions.

As a Canonn Institute's field researcher, my vote goes for "NOT PROVEN".*

*This comment is meant as a joke and should never be taken seriously. Anyone is free to write down any hypothesis they find fit. I am just a guy who wasted his time flying over planet's surfaces instead of gaining billions as proper commanders do. Don't join the Canonn, you'll die alone and poor.

Damn, I need some brandy.

And as I menioned in the main Canonn Thread, I didn't realize how offensive this comment was at first. I'm sorry if it offended you, Moribus.

 

[Louis Calvert]

Apparently Canonn Institutes field researchers have some issue with reading. Maybe the problem is too much brandy?

The literal first lines:

"We now know that Jameson's body wasn't (visibly) in the crash, and someone set up those beacons...

This is pure speculation, but here's what I think happened next:..."

You guys really, really need to lighten up.

 

[Aldaris]

I'll be honest Aldaris, I'm pretty sure you're a forum troll

Er, ok. And you tell us we need to lighten up. I do not take kindly to being called a troll just because I don't agree with you. Quit that please.

I'm pretty sure calling another person a troll is not acceptable round here really. Instead of calling me a troll because I won't accept your latest speculation and provide you with an echo chamber, you could, you know, agree to disagree?

 

[Kaltern]

Er, ok. And you tell us we need to lighten up.

I apologise for not sharing your crazy ideas

I am aware it's pure speculation. I'm also aware I can point out all the flaws as well. Don't like people pointing them out? Don't post.

Oh I've seen your post history.. I'm pretty certain you don't like to be argued with.. Cobra MkII anyone?

 

[Aldaris]

Oh I've seen your post history.. I'm pretty certain you don't like to be argued with.. Cobra MkII anyone?

If by arguing you mean providing an alternative explanation that turned out to be wrong, sure. That's what I was arguing with. Not really sure what that has to do with this or being called a troll for no reason however.

 

[Aldaris]

For what it's worth, I am quite aggressive in my arguing style, and had you come back with my arguments Moribus, I was going to agree to disagree because as you rightly pointed out in the tinfoil thread we're basically going round and round in circles now.

But I still don't like being called a troll, and if you were to look back at your rep history, I HAVE agreed with you before. Just not on this.

 

[Rob At Work]

I am Brian

 

[M. Volgrand]

Apparently Canonn Institutes field researchers have some issue with reading. Maybe the problem is too much brandy?

The literal first lines:

"We now know that Jameson's body wasn't (visibly) in the crash, and someone set up those beacons...

This is pure speculation, but here's what I think happened next:..."

You guys really, really need to lighten up.

First: I did already apologize, as my statement was a poorly written joke. I didn't meant to be as offensive as I was.
Second: A big part of the problem is the way you titled this thread. You did title it as "Thunderchild IS Jameson's son", making everyone understand that you KNEW it was that way, when it is pure speculation. How about you retitle it something as "Tinfoil time: Is Thunderchild Jameson's son?".

So yeah, maybe some Canonneers should lighten up, myself included. But you should read twice how you write your posts. When we spent hours debating hypothesis and theories and being sure to have every single evidence before establishing anything as proven, your post feels like an overstated hypothesis.

 

[Fenris Wolf]

Farewell, Thunderchild.

For me it will be Forever Autumn...

 

[TartanDragon]

Not getting involved in the debate really, just helping with the age thing.

Ok it's Wiki and I'm fairly certain his bio in game (No access atm) says the same but check out the age of Edmund Mahon.

http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Edmund_Mahon