Timesinks: a critique of ED design philosophy

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As some may know I have been highly critical of the game over the last 12-15 months.

My main criticism has been pointed at the lack of emergent gameplay and storytelling in the latest iteration of the franchise.

However, there is one particular area of the game which needs a special mention and that is the timesink relating to long distance travel. The game runs on computer code - it is definitely not a one to one simulation of the actual Milky Way Galaxy and thus physical rules which apply in the real life Milky Way and general universe need not apply.

Given this undeniable fact the attention of the development team should be on avoiding what are traditionally described as gaming timesinks - activities which add nothing to the quality of the time spent playing the game. These could be simple button pressing patterns, activities involving low level repetitions of hand/eye coordination with repeated almost identical animated outputs from the code etc. The human mind finds these timesinks laborious and unfulfilling.

Thus it is normal within game design to remove timesinks and reward gamers for time spent within a game by presenting new ideas via voiced dialogue, quality of writing and a variety of graphical environments accessed by skill based progression.

In ED time this principle of game design based on human nature has been largely ignored. Travel, for example requires simple inputs and large amounts of time which do not reward the player at all. In the same way even Flight Simulators offer fast travel to minimise boredom ED needs to abandon the adherence to poor design choices and offer a truly engaging experience for the player.

Arguing that repeating the same simple task again and again is an exciting way to pass hours of time reminds me of Einstein's definition: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".
 
So. Your idea of dealing with travel times in the game?

The timesinks must be removed!

Just come up with a way of making long distance travel much quicker and much more fun!

If I wanted to waste a lot of time sitting around doing nothing I could book a slow coach from Penzance to Arbroath!
 
Op, are you suggesting instantaneous travel? High waking directly to a station instead of to the Nav Beacon?
 
Op, are you suggesting instantaneous travel? High waking directly to a station instead of to the Nav Beacon?

I would guess so.
Changing the space ship sim to jumping sim is such a good idea, right? Will take out the boredom instantaneously.
 
If I wanted to waste a lot of time sitting around doing nothing I could book a slow coach from Penzance to Arbroath!

You could also read all the posts by a specific forum member about their disdain of Elite...

Humour, it is a wonderful tool.

I quite enjoy it the way it is, but that is because I accept (not except as incorrectly written pre edit) the following as something that can not really be avoided due to the range of equipment that this game works upon.

You are aware that the "timesinks" you describe are actually loading screens, placed there to give the game a chance to run?
 
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Op, are you suggesting instantaneous travel? High waking directly to a station instead of to the Nav Beacon?

I'm suggesting any form of in game travel requiring more than 100 highly repetitive jumps for an average player of a minute plus per jump is just silly game design.

This is exhibit number one in any video gaming Hall of Shame.
 
Personally I like flying spaceships in my spaceship flying game; however I see from your post history that you like nothing about the game, so why are you still here?
 
You could also read all the posts by a specific forum member about their disdain of Elite...

Humour, it is a wonderful tool.

I quite enjoy it the way it is, but that is because I except the following as something that can not really be avoided due to the range of equipment that this game works upon.

You are aware that the "timesinks" you describe are actually loading screens, placed there to give the game a chance to run?

You'd probably be better using the word "accept" rather than "except" in your sentence...[big grin]

Whatever the "cause" is it really acceptable for me to need to watch 500 plus loading screens to travel from one video game point to another?

Personally I like flying spaceships in my spaceship flying game; however I see from your post history that you like nothing about the game, so why are you still here?

Your post is based on the false assumption that you have to like the game to post here. Are you sure you want to carry on with that one?
 
Staring at a TV screen is a timesink, playing games is a timesink. If you don't like the way ED is with traveling and I expect always will be, don't play it. I'd put your suggestion in the suggestion forum, if you're serious :p . I doubt it though
 
I would guess so.
Changing the space ship sim to jumping sim is such a good idea, right? Will take out the boredom instantaneously.

At the moment it is a jumping sim...

That is all you can do for hours at a time when travelling long distances.

Real life is boring enough without having a video game simulation of the boring bits.
 
I would guess so.
Changing the space ship sim to jumping sim is such a good idea, right? Will take out the boredom instantaneously.

I think your building a nice strawman for the bonfire.

I think that what he means is that such low skill repetitive slow gameplay should be replaced/be given an alternative high skill more immersive gameplay for long distance travel (100 jumps).
 
Staring at a TV screen is a timesink, playing games is a timesink. If you don't like the way ED is with traveling and I expect always will be, don't play it. I'd put your suggestion in the suggestion forum, if you're serious :p . I doubt it though

Not quite as the quality of the experience matters.

Would you say watching "Saving Private Ryan" or "Paint Drying: The Movie" would be the same quality of artistic experience?

If the dev team are listening...
 
For me Im not sure .
I make a lot of money bringing passengers to a station 0.4 ly away.

What happens is, I play two minutes, getting a new mission get in and out of the station and then jump to the system.
Then I have to fly to the station. It takes me 50 minutes so I take my Ipad, a book, clean the house, do whatever I have to do and at regular times looking at my screen if it is nicely progressing.
I arrive, get in, take a mission, get out jump to the system in about 2 minutes and go on with reading, working, etc.
I'm so glad the change to get interdicted along the way is very small. Otherwise there was no way I could take this mission. I don't have the time to sit 50 minutes staring at a pc screen. (if ED changes this it is over and out for me with this game )
My wife is flabbergasted...is this a game? nothing happens for an hour or so.

So if I be honest I have to admit this has nothing to do with gameplay.
On the other hand it gives a great feeling of the size of the universe.
But sometimes I agree with the OP. Micro jumps wouldn't be so bad to get this game less time consuming doing nothing at all without breaking the immersion.
 
Not quite as the quality of the experience matters.

Would you say watching "Saving Private Ryan" or "Paint Drying: The Movie" would be the same quality of artistic experience?

If the dev team are listening...

My point is ALL video games are time sinks. Elite is sold as many things and one of them being, it's a 1:1 scale of the milky way galaxy. Take that away and it's not. Travel times are what they are. If it was just jump to one station, pick up a mission. Then jump directly to the mission station and hand in. Well what's the point in that. The point is that it's supposed to have a sense of scale and elite does that. For some it's boring and for some it's amazing. Micro jumps to in system stars is not a bad idea but directly to stations would take away what elite is, a space game in which we travel, explore and have cool ships to do it in
 
If it was just jump to one station, pick up a mission. Then jump directly to the mission station and hand in.
I did get one cargo delivery mission where as I was exiting the mail slot I got a "destination change" message ... to the station I'd just launched from. That was an easy few million. :)

It could be even more efficient than that, though - rather than logging in, players could just get 10 million per hour credited to their balance. Then they could do something they actually enjoy secure in the knowledge that their Cr/hour rate wouldn't suffer unduly as a result.
 
In Star Trek Online people don't fly much because we press 't' and you get a fast travel to a space station or planet. You lose a sense of travel and exploration. To me, going to Pleiades is a Big Deal. Maybe it is supposed to be. But distances become smaller that more often you traverse their length.

It depends on how you play. As a miner it is more or less trivial to travel once you gave in to your sense of self-delusion, that you are the mining roughneck hacking at the universe to get some ore and always drifting to find the best mining spots. The fact is, all miners give in eventually to the God of Spreadsheets and ED Tools. Where is thepristine place!

Once you are there, why travel? You only travel to Engineers. But if you go powerplay, it is a hassle to go back if you do that stuff out of sheer boredom, because you need a change of pace.

The size of the universe is a function of travel. :) There needs to be travel, how else would you know where you are? ;-) If there is no travel, all places are the same. In ED, most places ARE the same. Or similar enough not to be interesting.

So how can you balance time sinks without losing a sense of distance? On one hand travel is repetitive. I read someone forget about the fuel star because he got into a sort of trance is what I think and just became the autopilot of himself.

Instant travel fragments distances and you lose a sense of the universe. The human mind looking at a tree will notice the leaves, not the air in between. When you play any space sim, your mind is always on objects and destinations. If destinations are samey, travel becomes uninspiring. The only reason to go to Maia is because something is happening around there. Unfortunately, game design makes it near impossible to find anything like crashed ships, without a spreadsheet that usually doesn't work.

If you zoom out, the whole point of the game is weird. Humankind is advanced enough to settle distant worlds. But we carry vouchers in ships? To boost your Power? They could have e-mailed the pledges. Pointless.

Boom Data Delivery. Bah, just e-mail the information. Encrypt it. These are not real jobs. Parcel delivery...yeah I suppose so. Can a game scale to the job at hand? I would travel more if space stations were more unique. If missions had more story behind them, chained with multiple outcomes based on player choices. Like I said elsewhere, I want to transport a group of traveling clowns and get chased by a person who's kid got scared....but it turns out the clowns stole rare whiskey and now you turn them in, steal the whiskey or jettison the lot of them.

Cruises, this is about travel. But what is there to see? I scanned some thingie and got info on Interpol. Wow. A millennial would say: 'Seriously?' :) And how does this relate to me. Was there an Interpol base there? Their HQ?

It is often said that the point of life or whatever else seems appropriate to you, is not in reaching the target but the travel to getting there. In that case travel consists of events. Occurrences that stand out against the background of time. But to string events tightly together without space in between means there is no background against which you can distinct between them.

Just my random thoughts.
 
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