Tips for a crappy dogfighter?

[CMDR GTR2014]

Does this help? I didn't has as much A-Stuff as I though when I had a good look...
[Cobra MkIII, Blind Ferret II] [+1]
M: 2F/G Pulse Laser [+1]
M: 2F/G Pulse Laser [+1]
S: 1G/G Multi-cannon [+1]
S: 1B/FS Seeker Missile Rack [+1]

U: 0F Electronic Countermeasure [+1]
U: 0I Heat Sink Launcher [+1]

BH: 1A Military Grade Composite
PP: 4B Power Plant
TH: 4B Thrusters [+1]
FD: 4C Frame Shift Drive [+1]
LS: 3A Life Support [+1]
PD: 3A Power Distributor [+1]
SS: 3A Sensors [+1]
FT: 4C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 16)

4: 4E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 16)
4: 4E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 16)
4: 4C Bi-Weave Shield Generator [+1]
2: 2E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 4)
2: 2G Planetary Vehicle Hangar [+1]
2: 1E Basic Discovery Scanner

OK!

First lets start for defense. Ditch the heat-sink... you'll never need it in a cobra for smuggling anything ever Cobra is one of the most cold ships in game.

In his place put a chaff.

The ECM I think is there to defend from hatch breakers right? Leave it if that's the case. If not, another chaff might be useful , or even a Point Defense.

Weapons wise i don't see any big changes. MAYBE a change one medium pulse to a multi-cannon, and the small multi-canon to a pulse. to have some extra punch on hulls. but this is not a big deal to fighting small ships! only mediums and big ships, so i don't feel this is a big change for you right now... You can MAYBE use a 2xPulse 2x Seekers this is personally VERY effective defensive weaponry, since you can just terminate your opponents weapons or drives making him helpless to your attacks!

Just be sure to target enemy weapons when you use a seeker missile, reducing their DPS is the best bet when using seekers on Npcs. Priority should always be :
Seekers missiles > Dumb fire missiles > Thermal Weapons (pulses , beam , lasers) > Rail-guns > Plasma > Multi-cannon > Cannon > Frags.


Now on the internals...

Change the smaller cargo rack (2E) For a Hull Reinforcement Package. This will give you about to 50% more hull. for a very little price (4T is nothing , compared to 50% more survival chances.)

Core Modules:

Downgrade the Sensors to D rated. This will give enough money to get you a 4B FSD, this OFC is entirely optional. Lets just say that A sensors offer little advantages for their power use and price ... at least on your current situation.

Life support could also be downgraded, BUT I learned a while ago that this is a life savior... My personal options is always B or C rated. I feel 10 min is enough to get to safety... but this might not be the case for someone just starting the game... so this is 100% optional.



Now for combat.

PIPs management is your best friend here.

Having 4 PIPs to shields will increase it's strength to 2.5x times , so every-time you're taking fire remember that.

On the first part of engagement you should always be 4-2-0 OR 4-0-2 ( System - Engine - Weapons)

This will help keep you shielded.

When dogfighting always remember to use maneuverable thrusters to help closing or opening the gap. try applying downwards thrusters and upwards when you are trying to get you enemy in sights.

Combat awareness is another great thing. prior or during combat, always check your opponent weaponry and defenses. nothing worst than finding on the worst time that your opponent have seekers...

learn how to make each weapon less effective against you.

On the seeker note... if you face an opponents WITH seekers, losing shield mean death. Go to Silent running as soon as you can to break the missile lock, and give yourself some distance. most of the time this means retreat.
back off for a safe distance ,if you CANT do that, high wake.

---------

Tricks that you can try , and get proficient.

FAO boost turn:
https://youtu.be/SBMfyY5raFk?t=4m9s

Really can save you... just look at HOW fast you can turn... this can be used to get in your enemy back... OR to get away safely this is by far one of the most useful trick you can learn in game.
Trick is to time the FAO trigger to be precise just AFTER the boost , you can see on the video how this is done by listening carefully for the FAO click sound and the boost.

this video also helps a little with FAO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhCXvyI3HSA


Now I think i will stop this wall of text here...

The irony there is that your sig has a Cobra running from two Vipers... lol

It would be too hard to animate a real battle... so I just went for 2 police vipers chasing my Pirate Cobra next time i might do one with an anaconda HAHA!

 

[Bajau]

Now I think i will stop this wall of text here...

Don't be shy!

Actually that was a surprisingly good series of suggestions. I say surprisingly because I've been on forums where most of the 'help' is grandiose 'look at me and I'm a legend' style comments.

My thanks Commander.

B

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

'look at me and I'm a legend'

I'm A legend TBH

feel free to add me in-game or PM me anything you want CMDR Greedy Raider of Lave

 

[Devari]

Ok... it's a fact. I dogfight worse than anyone I know (or will ever meet I expect) . Even the geeks sent out to prevent me delivering low level stuff seem to own me in a furball.

Are there any useful suggestions for tricks to avoid getting my insurance papers restamped every day? Missiles? Bribery? RSLG?

B.

First tip is to use gimbals. For most situations they are the best sustained dps option, especially with weapons such as multicannons that rely on sustained damage rather than burst damage to be most effective. The main limitations of gimbals are that you will have lower DPS against larger targets than you would with fixed weapons and you need to deselect your target and use them in fixed mode if you target spams chaff, but for the vast majority of PVE encounters with NPCs they will be the most effective option. The only real value in fixed weapons is either to use a weapon or build that doesn't have a gimbal option (i.e., plasma accelerators or railguns) or because you are making a specialized PVP build of some kind. The best part about using gimbals is that you effectively decouple your firing arc/tracking from your ship maneuvers you can focus much more on improving your piloting skills rather than being focused on simply maneuvering as a means of aligning your weapons. Looking at your build it seems like you already use gimbals but I've listed this point anyways because it's not just a "learning" mode or "easy" mode for the weapons, it's actually a core aspect of an effective combat style in Elite.

Second tip is to use as many DOF for maneuvering that your control setup will allow. I have a good low-cost HOTAS (T-Flight Thrustmaster HOTAS) where the throttle includes a rocker bar I've configured for yaw plus I've configured the Z-axis on my control stick for lateral thrust which is useful for docking purposes and precise movements when cargo scooping. A good HOATAS setup definitely helps for flying "finesse" ships that require precise throttle control to get the most out of them, i.e., any of the SLFs, small fighters with high acceleration such as the Sidewinder/Eagle/Imperial Eagle and even medium-sized ships such as the FDL that have narrow blue-zone throttle ranges. For most flying however I just use my keyboard where I can accomplish the same control over yaw and lateral movement because of how I've configured my left keyboard and keypad to simulate my HOTAS setup. In my case this allows me to regularly use yaw to supplement my pitch/roll maneuvering axes, and also allows some evasive maneuvers as the gimbals keep firing on my target when I'm facing an opponent in a head-to-head or reverse-thrust situation. If you just use pitch/roll and throttle you are needlessly limiting your ship's capabilities. It does take a well-configured control setup to use yaw or FA-off effectively but you will probably find your flying is more enjoyable and effective when you have the most detailed control over your ship's maneuvering axes. In this sense the use of gimbals opens up a range of piloting styles that would otherwise be ineffective or inefficient with fixed weapons and the combination of gimbals plus 6 DOF maneuvering ends up being a highly effective combination.

Third tip is to watch Isinona's videos. Not because learning FA-off skills to that level is necessarily achievable or even useful for most players, but just to see what a top-tier pilot can achieve with relatively modest investment in ships (i.e., limited Engineering on a Viper or Vulture).

The main issue to realize about Elite gameplay is that it's an arbitrarily limited and artificial system that has nothing to do with space flight. If you view it as a challenge to work within those annoying and arbitrary limits, i.e. view it as more of a "game" than a "simulation" you will eventually find a flight strategy that you enjoy and will gradually get better at.

 

[Devari]

Does this help? I didn't has as much A-Stuff as I though when I had a good look...
[Cobra MkIII, Blind Ferret II] [+1]
M: 2F/G Pulse Laser [+1]
M: 2F/G Pulse Laser [+1]
S: 1G/G Multi-cannon [+1]
S: 1B/FS Seeker Missile Rack [+1]

U: 0F Electronic Countermeasure [+1]
U: 0I Heat Sink Launcher [+1]

BH: 1A Military Grade Composite
PP: 4B Power Plant
TH: 4B Thrusters [+1]
FD: 4C Frame Shift Drive [+1]
LS: 3A Life Support [+1]
PD: 3A Power Distributor [+1]
SS: 3A Sensors [+1]
FT: 4C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 16)

4: 4E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 16)
4: 4E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 16)
4: 4C Bi-Weave Shield Generator [+1]
2: 2E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 4)
2: 2G Planetary Vehicle Hangar [+1]
2: 1E Basic Discovery Scanner

I don't actually fly the Cobra III but I do fly a Cobra IV so I can give some general advice for your build as well.

Weapons: For the class 2 weapons I find that although pulse lasers are a good starting weapon they are generally outclassed by overcharged muilticannons with incendiary rounds. Efficient beam lasers are another viable class 2 weapon if you use efficient mods but their much shorter damage falloff means that for general combat incendiary overcharged multicannons are still probably more versatile. For the small slots I would also go with multis but recommend a corrosive mod on the smaller weapons to ensure that at least one of them is applying the debuff. Missile pods are only really useful in pairs (or in a quad loadout on an Asp) because they are very ammo-limited and many NPCs carry PD turrets so I would probably swap the missile pod out with another small multicannon.

Thrusters: Always use A-grade, ideally with a dirty drive tune. I would recommend a grade 3 or better mod, some players prefer grade 5 from Palin but he's all the way out in Maia and is harder to unlock. Usually grade 3 is more than sufficient and you can get these from Farseer, I only bother with grade 5 thruster mods for my larger ships (which need everything they can get to improve their maneuvering) or for clean drive tuning on stealth builds (i.e., a grade 3 dirty drive tune is roughly equivalent in terms of engine performance to a grade 5 clean drive mod).

Shields: I would advise the combination of a regular 4A shield plus a SCB to keep them up when taking heavy fire. You could either go with a class 3 SCB (if you don't want to carry heatsinks) or a class 4 SCB (in which case you'll probably need to fire a heatsink prior to using the SCB to avoid heat damage). My Cobra IV however has a class 3 internal that is perfect for carrying an SCB but in your case you probably don't want to reduce the cargo capacity of your Cobra III, in which case I can see the benefit of going with the fast recharge rate of the biweave instead of an SCB build. Whether you go with regular or bi-weave shields you should probably put a thermal resistance mod on it to maximize your effective shield strength vs. NPCs (who primarily use thermal weapons against shields). The thermal mods tend to be the most effective overall and have the advantage that a thermal mod doesn't add any mass or power drain, which means you really have no reason not to use a thermal mod if you've unlocked Lei Cheung.

Armor: No changes needed, I use standard military grade alloys on almost all my ships. The only exceptions are my stealth build ships which I use expensive reactive composite combined with a thermal resistance mod, this ends up being more effective than standard military grade but is very expensive and not really worth the cost or engineering time unless you're running a stealth build that has to have a survivable hull for when it goes into silent running.

Power Plant: Always go with A-grade here for the best thermal modifier, and ideally add a low emissions mod if you can spare the power to improve your thermal handling even further (or even if you need the full power but can roll a grade 1 low emissions mod that has a power capacity secondary that balances out the mod penalty).

Utility: I find a combination of PD and chaff is usually the most balanced combination for PVE combat in small ships, mostly because a significant number of NPCs seem to use gimballed weapons and often carry missiles that they will spam when your shields are down. The heat sinks however are another viable option, especially since they can "hide" your ship for a few seconds and cause enemies to lose lock. If you're going to include a SCB then I would definitely keep the heat sink and probably put a chaff in the second slot. I don't use ECM mostly because it requires "active" management to use compared to PD turrets which operate automatically, in most cases ECM is only really necessary on larger ships if you have to defend against torpedo attacks, otherwise PDs are generally more effective at stopping missiles.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

snip.

snip.

That's all bad adivice, first because the guy don't have engineer and it's wont be getting it anytime soon.

and the first post is unsalvageable. having a Stick is 100% not necessary, just see that most top notch PvPers fight in keyboard and mouse.

Insonia Vids are good but hardly a source of learning material.

 

[Devari]

That's all bad adivice, first because the guy don't have engineer and it's wont be getting it anytime soon.

First, you should have noticed that my loadout advice included general build advice and not just Engineering recommendations. Second, choosing to play without Engineers needlessly limits your ship to a point that basically makes it non-competitive even in many PVE situations. The game is currently designed and balanced around players having access to certain mods such as overcharged multicannons and thermal shield mods. If you actually took the time to read the recommendations in my post you would have also noticed that I gave examples of mid-grade mods that are quite accessible with minimal effort and I didn't just tell him to put Grade 5 on everything.

and the first post is unsalvageable. having a Stick is 100% not necessary, just see that most top notch PvPers fight in keyboard and mouse.

Having at least a flight stick is very important and gives a player the sense of actually "flying" their ship rather than just pushing keys on the keyboard. The HOTAS recommendation is also very important for ships that require precise throttle control and makes flying a SLF or a ship like the FDL much more effective in combat. I currently fly with keyboard but that was after starting on a basic flight stick, then moving to a HOTAS and then moving to a keyboard for flight control simply because it was convenient and efficient for my purposes. Suggesting that a player is going to enjoy playing Elite starting out with keyboard and mouse is really not very accurate for the vast majority of players. Buying at least a basic flight stick is the best advice you can give a new Elite player who is trying to learn how to fly their ship.

Insonia Vids are good but hardly a source of learning material.

Which is exactly what I said. Did you even read my post? I specifically mentioned that Isinona's flight style of FA-off isn't achievable or useful for most players but they are useful for showing players what can be accomplished with moderate-power ship builds, i.e., a moderately Engineered Viper or Vulture (sometimes not even fully A-spec) which are the types of ships that Isinona usually uses in most of his vids.

 

[Sylow]

Does this help? I didn't has as much A-Stuff as I though when I had a good look...
[Cobra MkIII, Blind Ferret II] [+1]
M: 2F/G Pulse Laser [+1]
M: 2F/G Pulse Laser [+1]
S: 1G/G Multi-cannon [+1]
S: 1B/FS Seeker Missile Rack [+1]

U: 0F Electronic Countermeasure [+1]
U: 0I Heat Sink Launcher [+1]

BH: 1A Military Grade Composite
PP: 4B Power Plant
TH: 4B Thrusters [+1]
FD: 4C Frame Shift Drive [+1]
LS: 3A Life Support [+1]
PD: 3A Power Distributor [+1]
SS: 3A Sensors [+1]
FT: 4C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 16)

4: 4E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 16)
4: 4E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 16)
4: 4C Bi-Weave Shield Generator [+1]
2: 2E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 4)
2: 2G Planetary Vehicle Hangar [+1]
2: 1E Basic Discovery Scanner

.
Weapons are oki. Depending on capacitor use, it might be helpful to have more MC or if you have energy spare, get burst lasers instead of the pulses, but that's very much dependent on how you fight. The more time you spend on target, the better pulses are due to high efficiency.
.
On utilities, i am surprised that nobody suggested a shield booster yet. If your energy allows then i would use a chaff launcher and a shield booster as utilities. Sure shield boosters draw a lot of energy, but there's a few tricks to dampen that. (In your setup, the vehicle hangar and the cargo hatch want to be at a very low priority, so the ship switches those two off when you deploy weapons. )
.
On your internals:
- On a Cobra MK III i'd ponder between miitary grade and lightweight. Sure military grade is tougher, but lightweight leaves you more agile and costs you less speed.
- Your thrusters want to be A-graded for combat. Agility matters.
- Your powerplant wants to be A-graded, so you can afford to use the other a-graded components.
- You probably want a regular a-grade shield instead of the bi-weave. The bi-weave is the better choice when doing RES bounty hunting, etc. where you want your shields to recover quickly between fights. For your purposes, higher shield capacity probably is preferable.
.
That all being said, the info that you get already struggle with the NPCs in the tutorials tells me that the ship is not the root problem. You need some piloting training, on how to turn, energy management, ect. As others already have stated, there's some nice tutorials out there, but there's always only so much they can teach you.
.
So some personal training might make sense for you. While there's many much better fighters around than me and while i am not that much in game recently, feel free to add me to your friends list and contact me when you see me, so i can take a look on your fighting techniques and can provide a bit of feedback. (If you play on PC, that is. )
.

 

[CMDR Heydan Seegil]

First ignore what everyone says about HOTAS. They are great, but the game is still playable and some would say that its easier with mouse/keyboard. I've personally trashed a few HOTAS players that I know IRL using a mouse/keyboard. Its really all about what your are most comfortable with. In my set-up I realized my mouse wheel worked great for thrust and then I have a gaming mouse with a bunch of extra keys which was perfect for mapping everything and the DPI switch gives me more control than you'd ever get out of a HOTAS. DPI on mouse is a must for long range snipers with fixed beams.

Now then on the main points. . .
-> Practice in a Freewinder
-> Know your control surfaces:
----> Imperial Eagles have some of the worst forward facing thrusters in the game so they are super easy to out maneuver if you can hang while flying at speed against them. Frankly they just won't be able to turn as they are drag racers.
----> Sidewinders are surprisingly maneuverable and fast once rated up.
----> Dolphins have great yaw and really bad pitch. iirc their yaw is better than their pitch
-> By knowing all your ships surfaces and those of your opponent you can mitigate your weakness and prey on your enemies.
-> Know the weaknesses of other ships. For example the Anaconda has a huge blind spot for it's turrets under it's aft cargo bay so if you are just below and behind it you can wail on it all day without getting hit (much harder than it sounds). The ASP has a huge cockpit, target the canopy and in very few shots it's destroyed (even with lasers) so they no longer have guidance.
-> Don't be afraid of flying without life support A rating gives you like 20 minutes for a reason and it take you're ship heat way down with it off. (depending on the ship).
-> Practice in CQC
-> Pump the thrusters when using them to turn rather than applying a constant force. It makes the turn faster. For example to do a 180 which pitching up pump the thrust down and back really quick to accelerate the turn.
-> Turning on and off Flight Assist helps you turn faster, but can also make the turn slower if you don't account for having to completely change your velocity.
-> Opening and closing the cargo scoop really quickly or deploying landing gear will rapidly slow you making your ship more maneuverable at speed.

There are a number of other things but mostly just practice and if your relying on engineering in order to make you a better dog fighter then you are doing it wrong. Engineering helps yes, but your skills alone should be deserving of the engineering.

Live long and prosper. V/

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

.
Weapons are oki. Depending on capacitor use, it might be helpful to have more MC or if you have energy spare, get burst lasers instead of the pulses, but that's very much dependent on how you fight. The more time you spend on target, the better pulses are due to high efficiency.
.
On utilities, i am surprised that nobody suggested a shield booster yet. If your energy allows then i would use a chaff launcher and a shield booster as utilities. Sure shield boosters draw a lot of energy, but there's a few tricks to dampen that. (In your setup, the vehicle hangar and the cargo hatch want to be at a very low priority, so the ship switches those two off when you deploy weapons. )
.
On your internals:
- On a Cobra MK III i'd ponder between miitary grade and lightweight. Sure military grade is tougher, but lightweight leaves you more agile and costs you less speed.
- Your thrusters want to be A-graded for combat. Agility matters.
- Your powerplant wants to be A-graded, so you can afford to use the other a-graded components.
- You probably want a regular a-grade shield instead of the bi-weave. The bi-weave is the better choice when doing RES bounty hunting, etc. where you want your shields to recover quickly between fights. For your purposes, higher shield capacity probably is preferable.
.
That all being said, the info that you get already struggle with the NPCs in the tutorials tells me that the ship is not the root problem. You need some piloting training, on how to turn, energy management, ect. As others already have stated, there's some nice tutorials out there, but there's always only so much they can teach you.
.
So some personal training might make sense for you. While there's many much better fighters around than me and while i am not that much in game recently, feel free to add me to your friends list and contact me when you see me, so i can take a look on your fighting techniques and can provide a bit of feedback. (If you play on PC, that is. )
.

Burst laser are the WORST lasers in the buch. there's a reason no PvPer uses them. Way to much distributor draw for the little extra DPS. NO.

Shield boosters serves nothing to a Cobra since their shields A rated is 110 MJ... totally worthless a chaff is WAY better option to mitigate DPS. since it actually work on both hull and shield, PLUS the 20% increase of the shieldbooster will make the powerdraw on SYS even greater than it already is. And regaining shields will take the at least 10% longer. so BIG NO to Shield boosters... if it was a Viper it would be a possible strategy.. but for a Cobra no.

A rate is always the best option. but OP don't have the money for it right now unfortunately.

 

[Spacecat]

Eagle or Viper 3. Cheap, and easy to learn in. Go to a NAV beacon if you aren't very good at combat. The ships spawn slower, there's cops to help, and you won't get overwhelmed.