General / Off-Topic To forbid the spanking and the slaps on the children ?

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
The France is going to receive the spanking of the Council of Europe. On the map, in red, the countries which have no laws against the corporal punishments on the children.
Is it necessary to forbid the spanking and the slaps in the education of the children ?

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Surfinjo

Surfinjo
Patrick_68000 said:
The France is going to receive the spanking of the Council of Europe. On the map, in red, the countries which have no laws against the corporal punishments on the children.
Is it necessary to forbid the spanking and the slaps in the education of the children ?

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In Scotland, for example, it is illegal to hit a child on the head or to cause any marks or bruising to be left. http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2003/10/18406/28339

http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/corporal-punishment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment

All a bit different from when I was at school and the whole school, teachers, domestics, grounds staff and pupils were ordered into the gyn to watch two 11 year old boys being beaten while bent over a vaulting horse. One 14 times the other 9.

Personally, what I'd like to do to anyone who ever hits a child, for any reason is probably against the terms of use of this forum, not to mention, potentially illegal.

Spanking is a sexual act. OK for consenting adults but not on for kids.
 
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Adept

Adept
Puppie said:
The removal of discipline, combined with the 'no one loses' mentality prevelant in schools, is why we have youngsters now who show no respect to anyone and who react, generally violently, to situations where they percieve they have 'lost' as they don't know how to deal with it.
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Corporal violence is not discipline. Psychologist have determined it is very harmful for development, and warps us as adults.

UK and France should join the 21st century...
 

sbdags

sbdags
Bah I was canned and slippered at school when I was a kid and it never did me any harm. Taught me a firm lesson in life - Never steal flowers from a church graveyard for art class especially when the vicar is watching. I also became a much better poker player at the back of the class. ;)
 

Joe Spivey

Joe Spivey
Adept said:
Corporal violence is not discipline. Psychologist have determined it is very harmful for development, and warps us as adults.

UK and France should join the 21st century...
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I had this subject for debate about two years ago and was surprised at some of my research findings. Most of the psychologists who determine that spanking is harmful for development rely hugely on an early study by Murray Straus. This is the same study often quoted by newspapers and the anti-spanking lobby. More recent studies have pretty much debunked his study and show how he was leading the evidence rather than following it. For example, the majority of his subjects were single mothers where the mother became pregnant in her early teens. Straus also bases his conclusions only on those results where the child was punished in excess of one hundred times in a year, so his results are hardly surprising. More recent studies are, at worst, ambivalent about the affect of 'normal' spanking as opposed to 'beatings' with an implement. At best they demonstrate a positive effect in the early formative years but with a tapering off of this positive effect as the child gets older.

Source: CORPORAL PUNISHMENT AND CHILD DEVELOPMENT by Jason Fuller https://www.uakron.edu/dotAsset/1820605.pdf There is a similar document by the same auther called THE SCIENCE AND STATISTICS BEHIND CORPORAL PUNISHMENT (or something like that but it is quite statistic heavy)
 
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Surfinjo

Surfinjo
I won't quote any studies, since most are bunk anyway.

The reason violence of any kind is unacceptable in all human relationships is because it creates a relationship based upon fear and dominance.

It seems perverse and rather suspicious that anyone could want a child to fear them.

But it becomes capricious when a child's unconditional love is a reason to inflict pain and impose fear
 

Joe Spivey

Joe Spivey
Surfinjo said:
I won't quote any studies, since most are bunk anyway.

The reason violence of any kind is unacceptable in all human relationships is because it creates a relationship based upon fear and dominance.

It seems perverse and rather suspicious that anyone could want a child to fear them.

But it becomes capricious when a child's unconditional love is a reason to inflict pain and impose fear
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So if you are not using any kind of evidence, study based or not, what are you basing these assertions on? (Bearing in mind that all of these assertions have been used as arguments by people who use the debunked information mentioned above)
 

Surfinjo

Surfinjo
The point is, there is no evidence, either way. It's all allegorical.

So it boils down to a matter of common sense.

The purpose of hitting it to asset dominance. Submission to avoid further pain. If you don't agree, please say why.
 

Joe Spivey

Joe Spivey
Surfinjo said:
The point is, there is no evidence, either way. It's all allegorical.

So it boils down to a matter of common sense.

The purpose of hitting it to asset dominance. Submission to avoid further pain. If you don't agree, please say why.
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There is evidence, I don't understand why you do not reference it.

Common sense is subjective so of little use in debate.

It is not for me to explain why. You are trying to shift the burden of proof. You have asserted "The purpose of hitting it to asset dominance. Submission to avoid further pain." The burden of proof lays with you, being the one positing the assertion.
 

Surfinjo

Surfinjo
Joe Spivey said:
There is evidence, I don't understand why you do not reference it.

Common sense is subjective so of little use in debate.

It is not for me to explain why. You are trying to shift the burden of proof. You have asserted "The purpose of hitting it to asset dominance. Submission to avoid further pain." The burden of proof lays with you, being the one positing the assertion.
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No, what there is are huge numbers of contradictory opinions from people who claim they know. For every authoritative opinion one way, an opposing, equally authoritative opinion can be produced.

Common sense is everything.

European opinion is turning away from violence against children. Children will eventually have the same legal protections from violence as anyone else.

They already have much more than when I was growing up.
 

Joe Spivey

Joe Spivey
Surfinjo said:
No, what there is are huge numbers of contradictory opinions from people who claim they know. For every authoritative opinion one way, an opposing, equally authoritative opinion can be produced.

Common sense is everything.

European opinion is turning away from violence against children. Children will eventually have the same legal protections from violence as anyone else.

They already have much more than when I was growing up.
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Ok, so you are just going to continue to make assertions without backing them up, which is fine. You are right in one respect though, there ARE a great many contradictory opinions and many of these are so fixed that they will not be swayed by any amount of evidence. Debating this particularly subject is as frustrating as debating a theist about their god. If I had time I would give it a go again but only against someone who was actually willing to debate rather than just make unsupported opinions. Unfortunately, I have just received the key for a new game that will keep me busy until FD get their act together :D
 

Surfinjo

Surfinjo
No assertions can be backed up.

There is no evidence.

All we can do is use common sense.

If you get your kicks out of children fearing you then good luck.

Most civilised people don't
 
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