To the Devs: Shields & Armour - Working as intended?

Im really starting to wonder, is ship damage and module targeting working as you intended?
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1. Modules completely unprotected by armour - making armour modules useless against any competent player targeting modules unless you fight PVE...
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2. Hull upgrades that add armour points that are essentially useless the moment modules are targeted
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3. Reduced damage of a weapon because a ship is larger by 30% per size class to simulate bulk i suppose
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4. Cytoscrambler "balanced" due to the above reasons, since armour is useless the gun is not allowed to shoot straight to avoid it being "unbalanced"
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Let's go through the effects of this (IF i understand the mechanic correctly or have i missed something completely?)
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1- Armour Useless
As long as we can simply target a module and blow up a ship long before their hull breaks any kind of armour is useless unless it protects the WHOLE ship. What person would mount ANY critical module on the outside of a vessel? Most engines/reactors are INSIDE a car/ship/submarine etc and not on the outside.
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2. Hull Modules Useless
While some added buffer HP is added to the ship it also becomes more sluggish and the module offer no protection to the ship the moment a module is pinpointed.
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3. The reduced damage of weapons
When used against larger ships this punish users of a smaller vessel with the current shield metagame and the entire design could be removed if the above points were done right. A weapons effectiveness is already measured by it's size and armour penetration, would use further reduction.
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4. Cytoscrambler
Really? 1300 years in the future and we cannot design a short range laser burst that shoots straight? Why was it designed that way? Because shields right now is the ONLY way to tank a ship and the weapon would be "unbalanced" if done right.
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Thoughts on effects if this is changed:
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Battles would take longer as ships with armour and hull modules would add their protection/HP to the module, you would still do damage to them but they would have increased resistance and HP so you could actually TANK with shields down.
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It would also add a secondary way to fight - Armour tanking would be possible where you could SKIP shields entirely and suffer increased mass and reduced mobility.
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The reduced weapon damage when used against larger ships could be removed since they would have a lot more armour and would take longer to chew through.
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Cytoscrambler could be useful if it could shoot straight but would be a tactical weapon to bring down shields but it would not be as useful when trying to kill someone due to armour actually having a point in the game.
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Another money sink is also added (which might have to be modified) since armour damage would affect a lot of players and the repair costs.
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EDIT: Another negative effect of this is that a lot of ships are ignored due to lower shield values compared to other ships regardless of their superior armour value which is ignored.
 
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I'd add to the list the insane armor prices. The price might suggest that thing is actually worth something. As it is, it should cost peanuts, given how useless it is. It might be of marginal use for PvE, but there it's far too expensive and has too many downsides.
 
I'd add to the list the insane armor prices. The price might suggest that thing is actually worth something. As it is, it should cost peanuts, given how useless it is. It might be of marginal use for PvE, but there it's far too expensive and has too many downsides.

Well, if Military Grade armour gave 50% resistance against ballistic and thermal towards all installed modules and overall hull damage it would be worth it, but now, hardly.
 
I can sort-of accept why there is no armour protecting some modules. For things like the PP you are really targeting the heat-sinks (which cannot be protected by their nature) and the damage is really surge damage, weapons thrusters are self explanatory. I would assume that internal protection protects again damage over-spill between modules rather than adding external armour (basically adding the equivalent of HP). But yes, I think the system needs a few tweaks...
 
I can sort-of accept why there is no armour protecting some modules. For things like the PP you are really targeting the heat-sinks (which cannot be protected by their nature) and the damage is really surge damage, weapons thrusters are self explanatory. I would assume that internal protection protects again damage over-spill between modules rather than adding external armour (basically adding the equivalent of HP). But yes, I think the system needs a few tweaks...

The heat sink has armoured baffles that can open and close. Adding armour would add armour plating to them, thus protecting them.

Also, surge damage means it would have to be a electrical surge or short circuit when the heatsinks are damaged and that doesnt sound right when the damage is to mechanical parts by ballistic fire or a bright thermal beam.

If anything, if we theorize that the damage is to the visible heat sinks then the reactor should not blow up but we would see a rising heat spike the more damaged the reactor becomes.

Either way, armour should protect it.
 
I can sort-of accept why there is no armour protecting some modules. For things like the PP you are really targeting the heat-sinks (which cannot be protected by their nature) and the damage is really surge damage, weapons thrusters are self explanatory. I would assume that internal protection protects again damage over-spill between modules rather than adding external armour (basically adding the equivalent of HP). But yes, I think the system needs a few tweaks...

This does sound a lot like rationalizing bad gameplay mechanics.

For example, targeting PP target something in the center of the ship, it can hardly be considered being on the surface. At the moment damaging the powerplant from the front
of the ship is seriously silly.

Though I like the idea of targeting heat sinks on the surface to mess with the power/heat management of the target. i.e. no heat sinks = silent running XD

Thrusters, I think that the 'senstive' parts would be shielded by armor, only letting the exhaust open. Still damaging from the right angle (i.e. shooting in the exhaust openings)
makes total sense.
 
I would love for an official dev comment on this, especially the whole business of hull upgrades not providing extra subsystem protection... but considering devs haven't responded to any of the hundred other times this topic have been raised, i wouldn't expect a comment here either.

Unless Zac as the new community manager can shed some light on it for us.
 
I would love for an official dev comment on this, especially the whole business of hull upgrades not providing extra subsystem protection... but considering devs haven't responded to any of the hundred other times this topic have been raised, i wouldn't expect a comment here either.

Unless Zac as the new community manager can shed some light on it for us.

So how do we summon this ZAC? Will Cookies work?
 
This does sound a lot like rationalizing bad gameplay mechanics.


Though I like the idea of targeting heat sinks on the surface to mess with the power/heat management of the target. i.e. no heat sinks = silent running XD

Thrusters, I think that the 'senstive' parts would be shielded by armor, only letting the exhaust open. Still damaging from the right angle (i.e. shooting in the exhaust openings)
makes total sense.

I would welcome a slightly more advanced secondary effects. Also, some modules CAN be targeted because they are party external, like the main thrusters which are partially exposed by their exhausts.

Hell, they could add the heat baffles as an additional module of varying quality that could improve silent running or vent heat faster. Damage to such a system would increase heat and/or lower heat dissipation.

A simple solution would be to add a damage increase (when armour protects them) or reduction (with the system we have now).

With the current system
So if thrusters are 50% exposed they would reduce incoming damage by 50%
The reactor could reduce damage by 75% since only the heat baffles and heat sinks are visible on the outside of the ship. Damage to reactor in this case would reduce heat dissipation efficiency and with too many modules running if your ship is damaged could have the reactor go critical.

But, such a solution is a band aid and armour would still be useless.
 
There WAS talk in beta about shifting shields about. To the rear, front etc like x-wing.
Oh the promises.....................................
 
Just gona add myself to this, armour price are kinda "eh!" when you first look at them. Add in the fact that its almost useless currently and you want to laugh

Amour benifits extend to modules and bulkheads just add to hull strengh....easy simple solution that makes sense
 
There WAS talk in beta about shifting shields about. To the rear, front etc like x-wing.
Oh the promises.....................................

*sigh*

I always hear about all the fun stuff from Beta that is now removed.

Another thing that I think would balance things out in an interesting way and make smaller ships viable in battles against larger ships.

Mass Detection.

Right now sensors detect HEAT sources. Well, the larger the ship the larger the heat signature.

If they insist larger ships take 00 / 30 / 60 percent less damage from smaller weapon why not allow small ships like Eagles, Adders and Couriers to have a reduced detection range for being very small heat sources due to their lack of mass that generate heat?
 
Just gona add myself to this, armour price are kinda "eh!" when you first look at them. Add in the fact that its almost useless currently and you want to laugh

Amour benifits extend to modules and bulkheads just add to hull strengh....easy simple solution that makes sense

I would go further and say that hull value add to module health.

Armour = Reduce damage from X source on module
Hull Module = If hull reinforcement adds XX% to a ships total hull it also adds the equivalent percentage to a module.

So if a module have 100 HP and the ship has 200 hull and adds a hull upgrade that adds 50 points of hull the module gains 25% additional HP (+25 HP).

The ship would take damage to BOTH the hull AND the module but reduced by armour reduction.
 
Modules won't be safe even against pve when SJA has tweaked the AI to target them. This makes it even more important to get some answers to your queries from the devs
 
Modules won't be safe even against pve when SJA has tweaked the AI to target them. This makes it even more important to get some answers to your queries from the devs

Yup, and why have weapons with different armour piecercing abilities when it's useless to bulk up with more of it.

They really need to expand on the entire mechanic.

Heat: Detection Speed
Mass: Detection Range
Mass: Missile & Torpedo Lock Speed
Heat: Missile & Torpedo Lock Range

So a HEAVY and HOT ship could be targeted at a greater range.

Add a quality to launchers to indicate the efficiency of the warhead to make them even more interesting:
A class launcher would have fast hard to detect missiles compared to an E class that has slow easily dispatched missiles by point defenses.
 
I agree that the detection range and distance of engagement could be improved on.
(meaning increasing detection range (20km?), have long range engagement possible depending
on the weapons, and allow small/stealthy ships to bypass the long range weapons and
getting close and personal :)

At the moment, all the weapons have similar ranges (except missiles and torps, but they
are useless vs shields and questionably usefull vs armor). Expanding the engagement range and
detection mechanics would add an additional interesting layer to the combat.

As an aside, fixing armor mechanics will also make stealth builds a bit more viable. I'd love to
see stealth bulkheads, internal heat sinks and such stuff to expand this style of play.
 
Hello people, Hull reinforcements and Bulkheads DO add protection to subsystems. Have you ever been to a CZ and tried to kill NPC Elite or deadly ships?! Even if you target their PP it takes VERY long to go down. That's because they equip a lot of bulkheads (military) and hull protections.
There is a reddit post from Battleship Kickass who did some tests:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...heads_and_hull_reinforcement_do_help_protect/

Here how hull protection apparently works: until subsystems health is greater then hull health, you take down the Subsystem's.
When SS health reach hull health, you take down hull first, and so on.
Would be nice to do some more testing on it, but I think it was useful to point this out.
 
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I agree that the detection range and distance of engagement could be improved on.
(meaning increasing detection range (20km?), have long range engagement possible depending
on the weapons, and allow small/stealthy ships to bypass the long range weapons and
getting close and personal :)

At the moment, all the weapons have similar ranges (except missiles and torps, but they
are useless vs shields and questionably usefull vs armor). Expanding the engagement range and
detection mechanics would add an additional interesting layer to the combat.

As an aside, fixing armor mechanics will also make stealth builds a bit more viable. I'd love to
see stealth bulkheads, internal heat sinks and such stuff to expand this style of play.

Yes, fixing this mechanic would really improve gameplay and open up for new tactics.

In the current gameplay who doesnt love shieldless NPC's that are easy money flying with their shields down - that's just insane with easily destroyed modules.

I also think missiles should be more powerful and situational instead of spamming weapons with a selection of warheads.

-EMP Shieldbreaker [Very High damage vs shield no damage to hull]
-Harpoon Missile [High Damage vs Armour vs little shield damage]
-Iron Gong [Thermal Kinetic medium damage, LARGE AOE effect]
-Blindfold Missile [Dumbfire huge AOE Chaff missile with twice the timer effect on ships in vincinity that detonates 2 seconds after firing]
 
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