Today's Word is Legs

This is another recurring topic around here "space legs" or some variant thereof, and while this aspect of game play may well be a good ways off, I'd like to address some of the opposition to this. Let me begin this way:

"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its continuing mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before."

Yep, I'm leading this with a Star Trek reference. Yes, the series was about the continuing mission of the starship Enterprise, and we sure did see a whole lot of the Enterprise. But we also saw a whole lot more of the people on the starship Enterprise. If we only watched the ship fly through space, orbit over planets, fire phasers and photon torpedoes at other ships, and roll credits, we wouldn't have made it through the pilot episode, let alone years of episodes.

A ship alone is just not all that interesting. But people are, and one of the things that people do is walk around - be it walking around inside the ship, or outside the ship, or on planets or space stations. And Elite is a game about people - specifically those who pilot ships, though 2.3 is going to give us a little hint of more by allowing people to sit in different chairs and do different jobs.
That's people, people, not ships, not autonomous systems, but people.

And what better way to bring the people into focus then to give them a chance to take the spotlight?
We'll still need our ships - space is beyond vast, and no hand-held weapon can compete with a even a sidewider's factory pulse laser.
We'll still need our SRVs - planets are huge and we'd perish of old age before we walked a quarter of the way around one.

But to be able to interact, on a personal level - that's where stories are made.

Neil Armstrong didn't fly all the way to the moon, land and then say "Ok, we're here, time to go home."
 
As much as I desire that (and I do more than anything) they need to put some game play in first. Interactive quests, deeper story, background simulation that is fun and interactive, powerplay that is fun an interactive (powerplay was such a great idea but it needs so much more depth), events or quests that include pitting players (directly or indirectly) against each-other to protect or attack some sort of target, community goals that involve more than deliver or kill the thing, allowing QCQ to be queued from a station (and quests for QCQ from those stations to give some actual in game reward to people who decide to play qcq), a better bounty hunting and wanted/punishment system which allows players to actually bounty hunt other players in a meaningful and profitable way, improvement that discourages combat logging and tweaks to allow pirating to be easier and more profitable, ways to somewhat track and follow players to those previous two ends (that don't go over the line into allowing stalking and extreme griefing). These things can all be done. Most of them don't even take much content generation. A lot of menu/hud and background work. I feel they could do it.

There are so many features in the game already that have the framework but aren't developed. Why put another framework in when they can develop the nearly great ones they have already put in and give people a reason to play every day. Why do people play competitive games every day? To accomplish something, to get better, to........ compete........., why do we play elite? Get the big ship with the good mods then ....?????

I imagine all this stuff in the game, and your legs and atmospheric planets like NMS (while that game was sadly just not good, they sure got the beautiful planets and first person exploration down well... unfortunately that's not enough to carry a game). A game where I can compete and grow in skill, and complete deep multi step quests with unique goals and mechanics and get rewarded with epic story about characters and game events I care about and get into. I imagine all these great things for the game....

But they can't just keep adding the framework for stuff without adding the gameplay or the player base will eventually die down before the game is finished.

So. Here's to hoping.

Id love to see QCQ brought into the main game with qcq quests that give decent payout first. This would at least add a much needed competitive element to the game and I think get people queuing for QCQ. Despite the fact that it's not popular, it's actually extremely fun. It only needs rewards and a point to playing (goal wise) to get people into it.
 
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While it's true that people like to interact with characters rather than props, you don't need manually controllable movement on foot to show interaction with said characters. StarCraft: Brood War managed to have a relatively engaging story without having a walking minigame, the entire story was shown through missions and a bunch of talking heads during mission briefings. Even the Star Trek example shows that legs themselves are not necessary, characters themselves are; there aren't really any long corridor-strolling montages between scene changes, very few 5 minute shuttle flights where the characters are left waiting to land (in fact, the transporter tech was introduced because of budget and time limitations - the same reasons why many people are opposed to space legs!), interactions often even occur remotely via talk panels and screens rather than wasting time getting face-to-face.

Characters can be important, and ideally should be important to the plot (important, persistent NPCs with goals, motivations and individual personalities where and, more importantly, when?), but they don't need to be directly controllable to be important. Captain Kirk was the cornerstone of the original Star Trek series because of who he was and how he did things, not because of how he walked around. Cortana in Halo is a vital and interesting character to the series, she doesn't walk around to do things, she's not playable, but she is a personality who some of the characters (and likely some of the players) bond with and so her existence adds to the series.
 
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Well said OP. But even besides the stories and missions and content, I signed on to be a person, not a ship. So the sooner we can get legs, or arms or whatever you use to move through zero-G, the better :)
 
Unfortunately, legs are not happening anytime soon. Sandro has as good as said that. He mentioned it to David recently, who said it would be a nice idea one day maybe.

Its not even on the roadmap. Its just a potential idea written on a planning board. Theres no concept art or code written for it.

I would imagine season 5 or 6 before they start planning it. The devs themselves told David it would be an effective whole other game to write, and thus a few years of work. The games current engine and framework simply do not support it, and it would be a LOT of work to even attempt it.
 
Watch some of the early kickstarter videos. The devs clearly state for them walking around ships and station is what they are looking forward to. And why not. SC Has it already and quite effective too. For me meeting RL people in station bars or just walking around is immersive for me. Instead what we have is basically a single player game so far.
 
I certainly don't expect to see this any time soon, and probably not even later - this is definitely a good ways off, as there is plenty of other things that really need done, fleshed out or even finished before we get to this point, and that's fine - I'd be thrilled to see at least one feature go live that we can call "complete". I just want to stress, mostly to the detractors, that this only further enhances the nature of the game - which as I said, is about people.
 
Unfortunately, legs are not happening anytime soon. Sandro has as good as said that. He mentioned it to David recently, who said it would be a nice idea one day maybe.

Its not even on the roadmap. Its just a potential idea written on a planning board. Theres no concept art or code written for it.

I would imagine season 5 or 6 before they start planning it. The devs themselves told David it would be an effective whole other game to write, and thus a few years of work. The games current engine and framework simply do not support it, and it would be a LOT of work to even attempt it.

True on the 'not any time soon', but you're kinda extemporising on the other stuff ;)

DB's recent words were closer to '...don't hold your breath, but when it comes it'll be great', which suggests an intent to deliver, and is stronger than 'one day maybe'. And Sandy said of Braben: 'it's always been part of his core vision for what Elite really is, even from way back in the day, it's always been about you're a person in a real futuristic setting, not just a ship'. That's more than him saying it's 'a nice idea' ;)

And it is on a roadmap, the ye olde one, in two parts:

  • Walking around interiors and combative boarding of other ships
  • Combat and other interactions with other players and AIs in the internal areas of star ports
And there was concept art released fairly recently with the digital artbook:

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The top two in particular look like they're more than just tone riffs, but may be part of playing around with more functional concepts.

And there quite possibly is some form of code knocking about, because Brabes confirmed in May 2016 that they had ongoing work on Legs.

So yeah, it's a massive task, and is doubtless still a long way off, but they might be a bit further along than you think ;)
 
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I agree with adding more content however adding legs and interiors first would really bring the additional content to life. Being able to interact with the quest givers and get attacked for walking into a bar of the opposite faction, or being able to engage different activities directly with your avatar would be more meaningful and impactful. Overall I feel legs is definitely in the vision but it's going to happen at point where all the supporting infrastructure is in place. Whatever that might be.
 
Hmmmm...... i thought this would be big news.

This Thread seems to be lacking a certain ornithological piece. A headline regarding Mass awareness of a certain avian variety

https://youtu.be/2WNrx2jq184
 
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Unfortunately, legs are not happening anytime soon. Sandro has as good as said that. He mentioned it to David recently, who said it would be a nice idea one day maybe.

Its not even on the roadmap. Its just a potential idea written on a planning board. Theres no concept art or code written for it.

I would imagine season 5 or 6 before they start planning it. The devs themselves told David it would be an effective whole other game to write, and thus a few years of work. The games current engine and framework simply do not support it, and it would be a LOT of work to even attempt it.

Season five / six? This game only has 7 years left and you expect them to get a minimum of three *seasons* in? I suspect it will be DLC from hereonout as more and more devs transition to IP3.
 
To make 'space legs' actually worthwhile would require an exponential increase in workload than is current.

And lets face it if they didn't put said work into it all you would get is a metric ton of whining on the forum about how "rushed" or "unfinished" it is.

I for one would much rather see that work in fleshing out the galaxy than worrying about whether or not I can walk to a person to get the same screen to buy some stuff to go into my ship.

Sorry I just don't think it's that important to have in ED. A nice to have but not worth the effort IMO.
 
I know I'm in the minority but I'm somewhat ambivalent about space legs. Other games are doing it and I don't see a need for FD to go in that direction while there's so much more they could be doing with the galaxy they've already created. There's so much they could do to make the 400 billion star systems intriguing and worthwhile to explore - adding civilisations (mostly extinct), other life (thargoids of course), puzzling finds (more than just ruins), player colonisation, alien artifacts/technology, as yet undiscovered spatial anomalies. Let the imagination roam free. I think they need to complete what they've already started before thinking about space legs. We need a game that provides that full commander+spaceship experience. Space legs I can go and find in other games.

That's not to say I don't want space legs. I just don't want FD to spread themselves too thin across too many "features". That's the impression I get now - that they're releasing what seem like disparate technology demos rather than integrated, intriguing and compelling gameplay.

So yes, I'm in the minority I'm sure, and this feedback coming from an avid tabletop & PC game RPGer you would expect to want space legs more than anything! :)
 
I know I'm in the minority but I'm somewhat ambivalent about space legs. Other games are doing it and I don't see a need for FD to go in that direction while there's so much more they could be doing with the galaxy they've already created. There's so much they could do to make the 400 billion star systems intriguing and worthwhile to explore - adding civilisations (mostly extinct), other life (thargoids of course), puzzling finds (more than just ruins), player colonisation, alien artifacts/technology, as yet undiscovered spatial anomalies. Let the imagination roam free. I think they need to complete what they've already started before thinking about space legs. We need a game that provides that full commander+spaceship experience. Space legs I can go and find in other games.

That's not to say I don't want space legs. I just don't want FD to spread themselves too thin across too many "features". That's the impression I get now - that they're releasing what seem like disparate technology demos rather than integrated, intriguing and compelling gameplay.

So yes, I'm in the minority I'm sure, and this feedback coming from an avid tabletop & PC game RPGer you would expect to want space legs more than anything! :)

Until we can actually "roam" on legs I'm afraid that everything will feel like an imaginary roaming. A ship or SRV can only interact so much with an environment. At some point it's going to have to be humans doing stuff.

I mean a ship can't colonize, only people can do that... Or text on a page I suppose. But again, the point is to go beyond imagining and into a realm of seeing yourself in a galaxy.

Otherwise it's just as the OP says, your ship is the main character, and that makes for pretty unwatchable TV show.
 
While having legs would be cool I fear that it would be mostly a game play free feature. What I mean is that ED would need to lay down tons of fundations before legs would entail to meaningfully game play. Maybe flesh out the Base game first huh ?

I am far from convinced that adding a disjointed ship walking simulator would be a good thing given the current state of the game.
 
For me it's pretty simple ..
What starport services would have a button to access the blackmarket?
The shady contact. The bribable deck officer. Undercover cops. The femme fatale.
Blackmarkets are about people.
 
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