You missed out "complaints".
By the way, if anyone here is disabled and currently relying on benefits there is a job going at the Guardian.
https://workforus.theguardian.com/jobs/kin000106/
It's definitely worth a punt.
General / Off-Topic Tories crack down on sick and disabled yet again.
- Thread starter Leper Messiah
- Start date
You missed out "complaints".
By the way, if anyone here is disabled and currently relying on benefits there is a job going at the Guardian.
https://workforus.theguardian.com/jobs/kin000106/
It's definitely worth a punt.
It's really depressing isn't it. How can one reason with a mindset and world view like that?
The logic that leftists are responsible for the destruction of welfare in spite of not being in charge when it happened?
Voting isn't the same as lobbying or protesting, I never said I was against those things. Do try to keep up. I have the opinion that complex political issues can't be reduced to binary voting choices, thus people with interests and ideas should assert them in different ways. This would not only force people to actually know something about what they're involved with, but also spend energy trying to get their political ideas taken seriously. Frivolity in the system (people voting for Brexit because they thought the NHS was going to get more money for example) would be reduced.
I've also yet to see a scrap of evidence for anything you've ever said here. Presenting facts or at least expert opinion is what makes the difference between "debating the issues" and "crying about things you don't like". I try to reference what I say with actual data to back it up. Just for once I'd like you to do the same.
It's advice Verminstar, not a request. If a man smashes his own roof in then complains he didn't know it would rain in his living room he has turned a silly mistake into a Darwin Award worthy comedy. Try to learn something about what's going on, I'm begging you. Complaining about welfare cuts whilst delivering the right-wing with the biggest mandate in UK history to do as they please is utterly ludicrous. Surely you must see that?
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verminstar
Banned
Ye say I dont have the right to complain about the result if I dont vote...remember what I said once abou what happens when ye leave people with bad choices? They do the unthinkable which was unexpected by all. There is a reason why voting apathy is of some concern here...yer not entirely clued into politics here in northern ireland, and yer constant anti right wing rhetoric seems to be slowing ye down...so...
What happens if no agreement is reached because the status quo remains the same? The end of stormont and the end of the good friday agreement and direct rule from london. All previous agreements are now cancelled and peace is now under threat in the power vacuum left after the assembly collapses.
Left with bad choices only, theres nothing left but to refuse to vote and force london to intervene. Our choices are that, more corrupt politicians with more dumb ideas or a united ireland...voter apathy could very well bring the whole house down...its the only choice left when the alternatives are unthinkable...do the very thing nobody wants ye to do.
Its not merely apathy, its a silent protest...a vote of no confidence in our own politicians and its worse now than its been in a long time ^
What happens if no agreement is reached because the status quo remains the same? The end of stormont and the end of the good friday agreement and direct rule from london. All previous agreements are now cancelled and peace is now under threat in the power vacuum left after the assembly collapses.
Left with bad choices only, theres nothing left but to refuse to vote and force london to intervene. Our choices are that, more corrupt politicians with more dumb ideas or a united ireland...voter apathy could very well bring the whole house down...its the only choice left when the alternatives are unthinkable...do the very thing nobody wants ye to do.
Its not merely apathy, its a silent protest...a vote of no confidence in our own politicians and its worse now than its been in a long time ^
Would you vote if a politician convinced you he or she was genuine ? There are some exmples like Bernie Sanders in the US and Corbyn here, i'm not a corbyn fan but i think he genuinely cares, i'm not very well educated on Northern Ireland politics, but there must be someone standing who is not corrupt, even if it's a small party.
I love the fact they blame the longevity of the elderly for the crisis in the NHS while thousands of so called refugees come pouring in from North Africa. As if they don't strain services lol people are dumb, so dumb.
Holy hell. Are you serious?! I am aware I am probably looking at a Poe's law again here (rather like the flat earth thread) but whatever. Here goes.
There are around 120,000 refugees in the UK.
But over ten million people in the UK are over 65!
There are over 80 times more pensioners than there are refugees!
Imagine a refugee going into a hospital to be checked out.
Then imagine an entire coach load of other people all going in at the same time.
You just blamed the doctors workload on the one guy, and not the coach-load, because the guy was from Africa?
When refugees settle they work, therefore contribute economically which helps pay for health and other services. Pensioners don't. Furthermore refugees are younger (therefore healthier and fitter in general), and are less of a strain on health and social resources. Refugees are far less likely to have strokes, heart attacks, have late onset diabetes, bad backs, failing eyesight, cancer, osteoporosis, hip or knee replacements, arthritis, dementia, Alzheimer's, or need to go hospital after flu, a fall, or pneumonia.
If what you posted was a sarcastic jibe at anti-refugee bigotry then I apologise. If it wasn't then please think for just a second.
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I think you'll find the main reason for "brexit" was uncontrolled borders and the fact that people are royally narked off with it and narked off with the complete inability for the left to COMPROMISE on the issue in any way shape or form. If someone had said the UK could stay in the EU AS IT IS but with tighter border controls then Brexit would never have happened. People on the left HAVE to respect and understand those who want their countries to not be flooded with immigration. Because if they don't then they are bigotted.
Well the "liberals" I despise are those who espouse "equality" yet royally crap on white poor because "slavery", "racism", etc etc.
In one breath they blame every white person alive for slavery yet moan when people rag on muslims, same people allow people to embrace their culture and patriotism whilst in another persons country and then slag off the latter person for wanting to embrace their own culture and patriotism.
The people who moan about Israel taking Palestinian land yet are happy that white western world is being eroded.
The very same people don't give a crap about the sick and disabled because they're too busy thinking about migrants and refugees.
TLDR, UK is going down the pan.
Worst thing for me is that I have no party or political organisation that represents MY politics. I hate the Tories with a passion, always voted labour and was ecstatic when Bliar got in. IT was HIS govt that brought in ATOS and the WCA and I failed the first one (first of many) which caused a massive mental breakdown, since then under the scu...tories things have got worse and worse.
I just see resources diverted to migrants and immigrants and no matter how much the "left" blither that its right wing lies I'm not someone who blindly believes EITHER side of the political spectrum. I read the stories, ignore the political bias (which is JUST as bad in the left wing papers/outlets than it is on the right) then see what common sense conclusions can be made and the overwhelming one is that unfettered migration of low skilled workers is a VERY BAD thing for a country. It's brilliant for those workers and I fully understand the basic human desire that drives that. But another basic human desire is to protect what you have and to be territorial. One is allowed and the other (in the west) is slagged off completely.
But yeah I've digressed, politicians right now are almost all insufferable scumbags. I just wish Labour would get away from the loony left and start looking after their traditional support base.
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not only that they say the NHS will collapse without migrant doctors and nurses....well heads up lefties the NHS is DYING RIGHT NOW, services are being cut (mental health care is non existent in my area) left right and centre. Stupid left are falling into the pans of the right though, NHS will collapse....private healthcare will take over (already seeing WAY more private healthcare adverts, remember when it was just BUPA?) and the poor in the UK will be royally screwed. Anyone noticed that malpractise is up considerable in the UK, statistics show that 20% of the NHS budget goes on negligence payouts.....it all beggars belief.
I usually do not like discussions on politics and sometimes religion even though I can relish the discussions on religion if it causes me to think. My view is the world is changing quickly. Technology is advancing rapidly but not as much as I would like or some would lead you to believe. Technology also has limits and we will run into those far sooner than many of the dreamers believe I think. We still have a ways to go but the way I see it is there will be two classes. The haves and have-nots. Most jobs are and will easily be replaced by machines and robots. If you are not filthy rich and do not own companies across the world be very careful what you wish for because if you do not end up a slave your children or grandchildren easily could. It is not as if that statement holds any truth today does it?
In the end it really doesn't matter because no matter how much technology advances I doubt we will be able to avoid the inevitable....but if you only care about the present....don't worry about it because you will probably not have to deal with it....someone else? Yeah...maybe or maybe not.
In the end it really doesn't matter because no matter how much technology advances I doubt we will be able to avoid the inevitable....but if you only care about the present....don't worry about it because you will probably not have to deal with it....someone else? Yeah...maybe or maybe not.
No, that is what you think. In reality, and we really have to turn this into a daily session I fear, not everyone who votes differently is evil, and not everyone who voted for brexit did for the same reason as you. Its a complicated story, with many different perspectives. I know its uncomfortable, it really is, but at some point we must at least try to face reality.
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Huh. And here I thought you said that brexit was gonna give NHS hundreds of millions of extra money every week. It was gonna be glorious and awesome with brexit.
So, hows it all working out? What do you say? Its crap? And who do you blame it on? Ofcourse, why did I even ask.
You have controlled borders. The UK is not part of the Schengen agreement. The UK can tighten those controls as it sees fit and even refuse entry to EU citizens if there's a justified reason.
Furthermore the UK like every other EU member has complete control over immigration from non-EU countries, which seems to be the part of immigration you have a problem with. The only thing the UK has no direct control over is immigration from the EU, but as one of the big three it'd certainly not that hard to make changes regarding that happen if there's an obvious need.
If your level of knowledge is the average in the UK, then I see why the Brexit has happened. Not because people where off about "uncontrolled" borders, but because the majority is too lazy to inform themselves.
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verminstar
Banned
No, that is what you think. In reality, and we really have to turn this into a daily session I fear, not everyone who votes differently is evil, and not everyone who voted for brexit did for the same reason as you. Its a complicated story, with many different perspectives. I know its uncomfortable, it really is, but at some point we must at least try to face reality.
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Huh. And here I thought you said that brexit was gonna give NHS hundreds of millions of extra money every week. It was gonna be glorious and awesome with brexit.
So, hows it all working out? What do you say? Its crap? And who do you blame it on? Ofcourse, why did I even ask.
Blame the clowns who caused the problems in the first place...the Cameron era. Why? Because these are not brand new problems, they are inherited from previous tenants. Although technically, its just all tories...both the old and the new...the corruption is the same only thing that changed were the faces.
350m a week wasnt it? Politicians...liar fer hire...the lies and the threats existed on both sides. Now we can sit and argue the pedantics of what were intentional lies and intentional threats till the wee hours but the reality is that the other less intellectual mortal folk percieve it as lies and threats...reality. Im guessing the emergency budget threat from Brown if we voted out wasnt a real threat, or something to that effect. The doom and gloom project fear that predicted complete social collapse and even civil war if we voted out...nah none of those were actual threats at all. Those were the opinions of so called experts that we are told are never wrong.
That worked out well didnt it?
Personally speaking, I knew it was an impractical hyperbole lotta bollox the first time I heard it, but that wasnt why I voted out. The reasons why are the very reasons ye told lepar not to assume were the motives of others...that was exactly the reason I voted out. The NHS and its fabled 350m a week tour bus was a lie started by...surprise surprise, a politician. They did what all politicians do...lied to further their own agendas and line their own pockets.
As a sidenote, there is some cause fer celebration here in belfast today...a little victory against the establishment we didnt think we would get. The high court has rejected a bid to keep the names of certain individuals and companies who benefitted from the cash for ash scandal that broke the political system. The politicians really didnt want those lists made public 24 hours before their most important election in 18 years. These people were promised protection and anonyminity and now they had that overruled and they can now be named and shamed publicly, along with the politicians who set the schemes up.
Yep...today is a very good day indeed because now we can prove they were corrupt beyond any shadow of doubt ^
Ok. Lets all blame the immigrants, or the old people, or maybe the single mothers or even the unemployed. I hear that all of the above are popping themselves into A&E, because it is warm there and they can't afford to heat their own homes. I digress; lets not whatever we do, put the blame where it belongs; our political masters and the bankers that they bailed out in the 1st place.
The police do not have the resources to follow up and prosecute, what they have to label as; low level crime. From car thefts to voyeurs of nastiness.
Schools don't have the funds for the books required to educate their students.
Parks are no longer cared for, streets are no longer swept and dog poo bins are removed to cut costs.
However: Lets all jump on the latest band wagon and blame whom ever our leaders point us all towards.
The police do not have the resources to follow up and prosecute, what they have to label as; low level crime. From car thefts to voyeurs of nastiness.
Schools don't have the funds for the books required to educate their students.
Parks are no longer cared for, streets are no longer swept and dog poo bins are removed to cut costs.
However: Lets all jump on the latest band wagon and blame whom ever our leaders point us all towards.
Its a complicated story, with many different perspectives. I know its uncomfortable, it really is, but at some point we must at least try to face reality.
His perspective is that productive people be thrown out of the country, and then in spite of the country having less money to pay for things his benefits should be maintained and the health service improved.
He is in for quite a severe shock over the next year or two. Reality is going to intrude in a very big way.
Not quite correct. It isn't laziness that prevented people from informing themselves, but nationalistic arrogance that led people to convince themselves that they didn't need to. That arrogance persists. Right now there are demands for the NHS to get more funding in spite of the fact the UK population blew £100 billion on pretending to still have an empire.
It's like a child has had a tantrum and threw all of his food all over the floor. Now the child is demanding more food and demanding to know when this mess will be cleaned up.
Javert
Volunteer Moderator
I recently saw a quote from De Tocqueville from the 1800s that might be relevant here: “People want equality in freedom, and, if they cannot get it, they still want it in slavery.”
Now to the interesting part: why do you think all politicians lie? The 'easy' answer is 'because politicians are evil, and they magically appear without anyone able to stop it." Its also nonsense. The real answer is that we get crappy politicians because we are crappy people ourselves. Politicans lie because they know we will vote for liars. If a politician learns new info and changes his mind, he is 'flip-flopping'. If you steadfastly continue peddling garbage that you know is , you are a strong leader. Tough choices need to be made, with all options having some negative consequences? BOOOO, no vote for you! Ah, you offer a magical option that gets us whatever we want with no downside at all? Sure, I wont check it, or think about it. Its what I like to hear so you'll get my vote.
We, the people, create an environment where honest and truthful politicans simply cannot survive. So what we're left with are the rats who learned how the wheels move. And in the end that is exactly what we deserve. Dishonest, lazy, intellectual cowardly people get dishonest, lazy and intellectual cowards as politicians. And at that point its only a matter of time before people figure out where you need to spend how much money to get things going the way you want to have them go while nominally still being a democracy.
Serves us right.
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verminstar
Banned
A situation of our own making...we agree on that though probably not on how we did it. Not gonna argue, Im all argued out when it comes to politics...dont believe in them anymore. By now ignoring the issues entirely, I can hold onto what little faith I have in democracy, because I am genuinely starting to wonder if democracy itself is the problem. Obviously we both know where that road goes, which is why as a measure of self defence, Im walking away while I still have that choice.
Nothings ever gonna change, let them do what they want so long as they leave me alone, and so far they have...Ill quit while Im ahead methinks by ceasing to care ^
All this while theres an ongoing election here right now...by this time next week, we will know a great deal more but whatever happens will be bad news fer us, regardless of the result. Its now a case of finding out if I get to see a united ireland in my lifetime or my daughters...the former will have serious consequences while I actually hope fer the latter, based on the complete shambles my generation has made.
Funny...our greatest downfall and its got nothing to do with brexit at all...our own side did this to us ^
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